There's a KSA 9 Bobby Orr rookie card presently on eBay that someone thinks is a scam. If you double check the KSA seral number with the first time this card was auctioned a little over a year ago,

http://www.sportscardreport.info/2010/04/196667-topps-bobby-orr-rookie-card-ksa.html

with the present auction,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140521390279&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1206wt_1139

you'll find it's the same card, that is, the same case; however, the cards do appear to be different. In the first auction, the card is off-centered top to bottom in a way that it isn't now.

Here's a better picture of the first auction:



what do you think?

Also, I checked this guy's feedback, and he's been accused on several occasions of selling fake cards, not the least of which a Bobby Orr rookie card.

I'm dubious. By looking at the scans, it appears that it's the same card. The front off-centering looks close enough to me, and the rotational tilt of the black oval on the back seems exactly the same. This would have to be an intentional reproduction of a specific card for that oval to match.

Another thing is that in one of the comments, the seller is suggesting a re-grade to BGS - not something they would mention if they know it's a fake.

Several red flags, though...
-> 98.8% feedback - not great at all
-> KSA graded - They're not one of those shady graders, but they also don't stand behind the authenticity of their cards with a financial guarantee the way PSA, SGC and BVG/BGS do.
-> Seller notes that the case is scratched - Whoa!
-> Seller's other auctions also seem very dubious - 2 cards that are "being sold as reprints per ebay rules, even though they aren't". What??? Also a bizarre scan of a graded card inside a plastic bag. Really???
-> All this guy seems to sell is super rare rookie cards, yet his feedback count is only 286. Where does he get them all from?
-> Reading his feedback, it looks like he was also involved in selling lots of "raffles" for rookie cards. Sketchy.

If you are still interested, ask the buyer exactly where the case is scratched. If it's on the flat face, fine. But if it's on the edges, I would run for hills.

If you then decide to buy, I would recommend you have it re-graded quickly -- before your 45 day dispute window runs out.

Just my opinion.

Good luck,
Eric

card is in a KSA holder....

These two cards are not the same...

These are not the same cards. When in doubt, don't bid or ask more questions. Economy is a bit rough which will bring out the best of the worst out there...

These are definately not the same card. Buyer beware!

Looks like a different card to me.
Also, I stopped buying KSA cards years ago! Maybe if it wasn't an expensive card and it looked good enough, I might buy it and crack it out of the case to send to PSA. But I wouldn't take a risk with something this valuable. It's only a good deal if it's the real deal.
I agree with one of the previous posters--why send such a valuable card to KSA? That's usually a sign that something is wrong. I would leave this auction alone. Good luck if you decide to bid!

I have a beautiful KSA 8.5 ORR rc that might cross to a PSA 8 should I be worried?

tks

I recommend that you crack it out of the case and send it in that way, not as a crossover. I have no idea why PSA is so incompetent in the area of crossovers, but they are. I sent 20 cards in and they crossed over 1! Most of these were graded by KSA, so my minimum grade was usually 1 increment lower. But in the end, I would look at the card and make a decision based on it, rather than strictly use the formula just mentioned in way that was at the expense of a sensible judgment.

The long and the short of the matter is that I learned how idiotic PSA can be in this area. To give you an idea of the kind of pathetic judgment they exercised, 1 wanted a minimum grade of a 7 for one of the KSA 8's. They declined. Despite PSA's decision, I knew this was a great card worthy of the NM grade. So, to satisfy my curiosity, I sent the card into SGC and they gave me the full 8. Now, anyone who knows anything about card grading will tell you that when SGC assigns an 8 to a card, it's an 8.

Perhaps others have had better experiences with PSA in this area, but I'll never use their crossover service again.

SGC is by far the best graders in the industry.
I have never had a problem with them or even heard or seen a complaint on this forum about them.
I know that SGC is not perfect but i have heard of way to many bad stories about KSA and PSA.

You should take a look at a Patrick Roy rookie on ebay... its listed at 500 bucks for a PSA graded 9, which it clearly is not. My two Roy rookies are better than that and prob value 150. Check it out guys, its the third most expensive on the list.