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Everest Summit (or not?)

May 3 2006 at 1:47 AM

John M.  (Login JohnMx)

 
Denver Post, 4.19.06, page 1 & 8

Byron Smith climbed Mt. Everest in 2000 and reached the summit with 7 sherpas.

The Amreican Alpine Club tracks Everest summiters, and has put a "disputed" footnote next to Byron's name.

Byron has responded with a lawsuit, claiming his honor has been defamed.

Byron speculates that fellow expedition member is the one who has disputed his claim of reaching the summit.

About 2,500 have reached the world's highest elevation.

After putting together a $500,000+ expedition and battling 100mph winds on summit day, Byron failed to take a summit photo of himself.

The article goes into much greater detail, including photos and route map, and does not draw a conclusion one way or the other.

 
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AuthorReply
surgent
(Login surgent)

Re: Everest

May 4 2006, 2:59 PM 

Is a photo of oneself a requirement for proof of a summit - barring another's personal testimony? Is this spelled out in some bylaws somewhere? Have him describe in detail what he saw up there and that should be good enough.


 
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Steve Gruhn
(Login SteveGruhn)

Who Cares?

May 4 2006, 5:18 PM 

Mountaineering is a recreational activity. I don't really care whether someone else did something or not. Just like I don't care whether someone who claims to have a potato that looks like Richard Nixon grew it with or without artificial means.

Such debates are silly and remind me of that guy (Dan Howitt) in Portland, Oregon, who constantly goes around demanding time verification and photographic evidence before he deems anyone's (Chad Kellogg's) claim legitimate. If the evidence doesn't pass muster with him, then he claims the ascent didn't happen. Who cares?

I guess it comes down to whether you want to be act like the Chad Kelloggs of the world or whether you want to act like the Dan Howitts of the world.

 
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John M
(Login JohnMx)

three types

May 5 2006, 12:02 PM 

Seems to be 3 types of peakbaggers

1) Those who do it for their own personal enjoyment and any rules be damned. Their accomplishments are generally not recognized (dismissed as fluff) and their enjoyment is not recognized either.

2) Those who do it socially and earnestly, and enjoy comparing their progress with others under a set of rules. The majority may be this type. Honesty is the only proof of accomplishment.

3) Those who do it seriously and operate under strict rules that require proof. These folks may be seen as joyless and take things way to serious.

Each type is neither right nor wrong; and any type may view the other types as nuts.

 
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janen
(Login janen)

Re: Who Cares?

May 21 2006, 2:27 AM 

About the Everest summit claimer Byron Smith ---
The issue is he provided a summit photo of himself as proof of his summit --- it was then PROVEN to not be a photo of him.
Lengthy and detailed report:
www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=648
At best, proven suspect/dubious/doubtful much like the Chad Kellogg's of the world as subject to astounding proof undermining their claims, unlike the Dan Howitt's of the world who have perservered thought initial difficulties to do prescedent official speed records on some of the most difficult speed climbing peaks in the US --- Rainier, Hood, Adams, Shasta, Gorge routes. For ex, Hood record timed by www.oregonpeakadventures.com and www.uncagethesoul.com Government Camp to Summit to Government Camp 2:58min ascent, astounding time from Govt Camp Loop Road 3.35 miles below Timberline Lodge.

Things Steve Gruhn have never done nor could ever do though things Steve Gruhn can attack others about with baseless info as desperate support of his friend Chad Kellogg. Steve there's a lot against Kellogg, he has a lot to prove.

Kellogg offered $5000 by Dan Howitt personally this year as also sent in news releases to Climbing Magazine editors and MRNP officials, RMI, several Rainier and Hood authors, many guide companies, Hans Florine, Exposure www.mountainspeedclimbing.org. Kellogg paid money if he can go sub 5:30min rountrip (he claims 5:06 and 4:59 roundtrip already with no time verification at all and proven to have never reached the summit for his 5:06min as per MRNP Mike Gauthier's own emails and post on cascadeclimbers.com). Kellogg promised to do his 2004 Rainier speed climb timed (seen very end of this article http://www.k2climb.net/story/stories/AninterviewwithChadKellogg,recentwinneroftheKhanTengrispeedclimbOct292003.shtml )

PROMISE ABANDONED! Lack of integrity? Yes.

 
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janen
(Login janen)

Re: Who Cares?

May 21 2006, 2:28 AM 


 
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janen
(Login janen)

Re: Who Cares?

May 21 2006, 2:32 AM 

'Integrity' means upholding your promises, lack of integrity means not upholding your promises. Textbook case, saddening to play the press and climbing community this way. Dan Howitt stepped up to the plate on Shasta, Rainier, Hood, Adams, including beating Jim Whittaker's 1959 OFFICIAL Ranier record of 5:20min with 4:59:05sec timed by Brogan Adams of Climb Max Mountaineering (now formerly) and Carl Poland of Ft. Lewis Army Rangers. No one has yet heat Howitt's official Rainier record despite Kellogg being offered by Dan $750 in 2003, then $2000 in 2004, now $5000 in 2006 to, simply, do a speed climb that's timed...

 
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surgent
(Login surgent)

who still cares?

May 22 2006, 1:21 PM 

The fact remains that virtually no one cares about speed records. Going up and down faster does not make one a better climber ... just faster. When the speed-climbing community gets its act together with rules and bylaws and does away with its internal animosity, then maybe a few people might remotely care about such records.

 
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Rich Allen
(Login lobodelnoche)

And I thought it was just me...

May 22 2006, 3:50 PM 

Hear hear! Well said! I wonder if this guy is going to spend the rest of his life being the bitter watchdog of all things speed-climbing, or maybe (we can hope) he can resolve his obviously deep issues with himself, stap on his pack, lace up his boots in anger (nod to Covill), and perhaps...oh, I don't know....maybeeee...GO CLIMB SOMETHING! Set your own record for all the world to see...or ignore, as most speed-climbing records are on this forum.

 
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Steve Gruhn
(Login SteveGruhn)

Re: Who Cares?

May 22 2006, 2:41 PM 

Dan (for I'm assuming that janen is yet another in a long line of aliases for Dan Howitt), I have never had the fortune of meeting Chad Kellogg. In fact, I had never heard of Chad Kellogg until I read your diatribes on various websites. To me it sounded like he was a stand-up guy who was a supreme physical specimen. When interviewed on ExplorersWeb, he was specifically asked about you. He declined to say anything bad about you at all - despite your continuous bashing. That, to me, showed far more about his character than whether he had time verification or a picture of a rock in the background of his summit photo. I subsequently attended a slideshow about his ascent of a new route on Kichatna Spire with Joe Puryear. Chad Kellogg, to me, is the real deal.

Dan Howitt, you, on the other hand, has shown a complete lack of sportsmanship by attempting to besmirch the character of Chadd Kellog. There are numerous mountain running races throughout the mountainous areas of the nation. Why not compete in one side-by-side with other competitors? On July 4 every year there is a famous mountain race in Seward, Alaska (claimed by some to be the second oldest running race in North America). The race is from downtown Seward (elevation 50 feet) to Race Point (elevation 3022 feet) on Marathon Mountain and back again. The horizontal distance is about 3.25 miles. The record time was set in 1981 by Bill Spencer, an Olympic cross-country skier from Anchorage, with a round-trip time of 43:23. This race is the real deal, making newspaper headlines and getting significant television coverage. Why not compete in this race and go head to head with some of the best mountain runners around? And, Chad Kellogg, if you're reading, why don't you show up, too? I'm sure a head-to-head race between Howitt and Kellogg would certainly put an end to the silly debate about who is the faster speed climber.

Here's the link to the Seward Chamber of Commerce's Mount Marathon website.

http://www.sewardak.org/news-events/marathon/marathon.htm

So how 'bout it? Put up or shut up!


 
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Anonymous
(Login janen)

Re: Who Cares?

May 22 2006, 11:57 PM 

>>"Dan (for I'm assuming that janen is yet another in a long line of aliases">>

Example of your bias, and stupidity, inability to with hold meager speculation even when it attacks another. To bad. An example of your poor comments/posts, shows all your posts are worthless.

>>"When interviewed on ExplorersWeb, he [Chad Kellogg] was specifically asked about you. He declined to say anything bad about you at all - despite your continuous bashing. That, to me, showed far more about his character than whether he had time verification or a picture of a rock in the background of his summit photo.">>

False, period. Where was he asked about Dan, provide the link and article? There are no links or articles. You continue to intentionally lie to support your friend Kellogg and your connections to his friends.

In contrast, in the nice Adventure Sports article June 2004 on Howitt, on PAGE 26 Kellogg is quoted with this---

Page 26 Adventure Sports magazine
"THIS GUY [HOWITT] REALLY DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT," SAYS CHAD KELLOGG, A CLIMBING GUIDE FROM WASHINGTON STATE WHO HIMSELF CLAIMS A SPEED RECORD...IN KELLOGG'S VIEW, HOWITT'S SPEED ASCENTS ARE LITTLE MORE THAN STUNTS. "ANYONE CAN RUN UP THESE PEAKS IN GOLF SHOES OFR WHATEVER, BUT IT'S NOT RESPONSIBLE CLIMBING," SAYS KELLOGG, WHO SUGGESTS MANY OF THE RECORDS HOWITT IS CLAIMING ARE SLOWER THAN THE UNOFFICIAL MARKS SET PREVIOUSLY BUT NEVER VERIFIED.

So Kellogg has had a lot of bad things to say about Dan. Also stupid things. Golf shoes? Hey Anatoli Boukreev used track spikes for his major speed climbs, so did Dan, same kinds of shoes. Hey guess what, see Kellogg's site chadkellogg.com and guess what he now uses track spikes, did for his 2004 Rainier speedclimb. What a fool with his pathetic comments. Just a loser. A player.

>>I'm sure a head-to-head race between Howitt and Kellogg would certainly put an end to the silly debate about who is the faster speed climber. Here's the link to the Seward Chamber of Commerce's Mount Marathon website. http://www.sewardak.org/news-events/marathon/marathon.htm>>;

No need to travel thousands of miles to AK, Dan's offered Kellogg $750, then $2000, now $5000 to simply do a Rainier speed climb that's timed, Chad refuses each time over 3 years now. This is very telling, he can't afford to be timed on Rainier.

"silly debate" you say this because you can't speed climb a mountain, you never have, and you fail to understand the sport and those who undergo incredible training, pain, and risk, speed climbing these peaks.

Steve Gruhn, you've been posting on hosts of websites with your "diatribe" terms and emailing Dan repeatedly with distusting attacks all to support your friend Kellogg and your friends in common.



 
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Steve Gruhn
(Login SteveGruhn)

Give It a Rest, Dan

May 23 2006, 2:52 PM 

Dan, please give it a rest.

The debate IS silly. Your constant attacking of someone's character really detracts from your message.

If you were truly concerned about someone getting your identity correct, you would use your real name and perhaps your hometown.

Kellogg's statement about you was found in the link that you provided. To be fair, the statement referenced a man in Portland, Oregon, but all knowledgeable readers could understand that the interviewer meant you. I had never heard of Adventure Sports magazine before you provided the quote. But the quote you provided doesn't really say much to besmirch your character; it says more about responsible and safe climbing than it does about your character.

<<No need to travel thousands of miles to AK, Dan's offered Kellogg $750, then $2000, now $5000 to simply do a Rainier speed climb that's timed, Chad refuses each time over 3 years now. This is very telling, he can't afford to be timed on Rainier.>>

And it would appear that you are unwilling to appear in an independently timed and judged race anywhere in North America. Here are some websites that describe mountain running races in Alaska, Colorado, New Hampshire, and Mexico. Surely a true mountain running afficianado such as yourself would make the time, barring injury, to participate against head-to-head competition in one of these events.

http://www.alaskamountainrunners.org/calendar.htm
http://www.wmra.info/calender.php

Although you called Mr. Kellogg a loser, any objective mountain climber could easily see that he has dome some very respectable feats. What was your time on Kichatna Spire? What was your time on Mount McKinley? What? You didn't do them? How, then, could you have any basis to call him a loser?

And, for the record, Dan, I have never posted anything remotely related to you, Dan Howitt, or speed climbing on any website other than this one. And, other than postings on this webiste, I have neither corresponded with nor emailed you (Dan Howitt). And, again, I have never had the pleasure of meeting nor corresponding with Mr. Kellogg - so it is inaccurate to say that he is my friend.

Stop the diatribes now.

 
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Steve Gruhn
(Login SteveGruhn)

Here's One in Oregon

May 23 2006, 3:51 PM 

Don't want to travel very far to compete against head-to-head competition in independently timed and judged speedclimbing events? How about Oregon's Mount Bachelor run on September 2, 2006?

Surely the distance from your home can't be an excuse for not participating in this event. What excuse will you use to decline this opportunity?

 
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Anonymous
(Login axre)

2 Official Hood Records

May 24 2006, 2:15 PM 

Dan Howitt 2003 Mt. Hood Official Record

Government Camp to Summit to Government Camp

Start on Government Camp Loop Road & E. Meldrum Rd (across street from Huckleburry Inn). [3.6 miles 2100' below Timberline Lodge on sandy loose trail.

2:58 min ascent
4:47 min roundtrip

TIMED BY: www.oregonpeakadventures.com Joe Whittington
www.uncagethesoul.com John Waller
Hired as 3rd party timers.

Summit Photo (by John Waller)
[URL=[/IMG][/URL" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/8163/mthoodsummit2july2003web6lj.jpg">[/IMG][/URL]

First speed climb of it's kind since 1936 when legendary Hood climber Gary Leech did it.
Leech in 1934 did a time-unverified 3:06 min one-way ascent to the summit. Then in 1936 he claimed 2:36 min ascent to the summit time-unverified.

Howitt's Hood speed climb was the first of it's kind in history in 70 years.
Since Howitt in 2003, no one has either attempted or completed this speed climb, either oneway or roundtrip.




 
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axre
(Login axre)

Picture 2003 Hood Record

May 24 2006, 2:24 PM 

Dan Howitt 2003 Mt. Hood Official Record

Government Camp to Summit to Government Camp

Start on Government Camp Loop Road & E. Meldrum Rd (across street from Huckleburry Inn). [3.6 miles 2100' below Timberline Lodge on sandy loose trail.

2:58 min ascent
4:47 min roundtrip

TIMED BY: www.oregonpeakadventures.com Joe Whittington
www.uncagethesoul.com John Waller
Hired as 3rd party timers.

Summit Photo (by John Waller)

First speed climb of it's kind since 1936 when legendary Hood climber Gary Leech did it.
Leech in 1934 did a time-unverified 3:06 min one-way ascent to the summit. Then in 1936 he claimed 2:36 min ascent to the summit time-unverified.

Howitt's Hood speed climb was the first of it's kind in history in 70 years.
Since Howitt in 2003, no one has either attempted or completed this speed climb, either oneway or roundtrip.

 
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axre
(Login axre)

Re: 2 Official Hood Records

May 24 2006, 2:25 PM 


 
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axre
(Login axre)

timed by Oregon Peak Adventures

May 24 2006, 2:27 PM 


 
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axre
(Login axre)

2003 RAINIER OFFICIAL TIME/RECORD

May 24 2006, 2:31 PM 

Beating Jim Whittaker's 1959 official Rainier record (5:20min to summit) Howitt in 2003 hiring former Climb Max Mountaineering manager Brogan Adams and Ft. Lewis Army Ranger Carl Poland.

Ascent 4:59:05 from Paradise to Summit, 9.5 miles (late season route) 9011'.

Summit Photo taken by Carl Poland


Dan's Rainier official record still holds.

 
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Steve Gruhn
(Login SteveGruhn)

No Impartial Judging

May 24 2006, 2:29 PM 

Dan, congratulations on yet another pseudonym!

Having so-called "third party" timers hired solely by one competitor essentially means that the "third-party" has a biased (often financial) interest in favor of the person he is timing.

Why not compete head-to-head against competition so that all competitors encounter the exact same climatic and trail conditions and are timed by the exact same crew? Doing so would be a lot more official in the eyes of the general public than merely claiming an official record.

It would also appear erroneous to state that your 2003 "speed climb" was the first of its kind in 70 years when another person set the standard 67 prior to your stunt. If you're going to be a stickler for details in the accounts of other climbers, you should at least show the same attention to detail in your claims.

So, how 'bout the head-to-head on Mount Bachelor in September (or one of the other public mountain running events held worldwide)? Put up or shut up.

 
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Steve E
(Login Snowslogger)

Not worth the breath

May 25 2006, 12:34 AM 

Steve,
I don't think it's worth arguing about, mainly because I don't think there's much rational sense or coherence in some of the other postings, if you get my drift.

 
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