This is not in any way intended to be a political thing as Boris is in and thats it , so avoid any personal politics in response posts please ...

It seems to me that one way or another there is a good following out there of the idea for a new Routemaster design concept aimed via a competition to find a successor and just maybe build it .. Colin Curtis has always advocated that 2 prototypes would be required for test / trial and evaluation purposes to get it right ..

We have had the ---- FRM ---- XRM ---- QRM ---- MCW METROBUS MARK 3 === design concept buses with of course the FRM being still with us .

I'd like to think and feel that as many of you clearly follow and support this idea of a new Routemaster build then why not show just how forward thinking you can collectively be by beginning this exercise right here on this public forum . I know one of our posters here has contact with Boris and maybe your ideas / suggestions demonstarted on here might end up on a certain desk if felt good enough to be included in the design concept .

Amongst you out there are EX LT persons / generally wide industry bus folk ( in London formerly called ' platform staff ' >> today called ' operating staff ' ) / persons who have safety backgrounds / construction knowlegde / engine & transmission knowledge / braking knowledge / ideas of what the inside should look like in terms of colour schemes , comfortable seat design . All this along with efficiency of reduced costs by reducing maintenance downtime , improved overall simplicity along with all that makes a replacement bus something to be proud of for London .

If you give it a try , I suppose its a bit like that awful Americanism thingee ' brainstorming ' they love so much session , then who knows what you might comeup with , after all if its a competition open to the public then why can't the public have their say here .........

lets do it ..... over to you

Well going by the books by Colin Curtis and Ken Blacker, the parameters are already there.
All the experiences and criteria that ammassed into the specifacations that led to the end result. The Routemaster.

So to start one has to consider lots of factors.
What it is to achieve?
Capacity seated and standing,
Fuel economy,
Access,
Versatility,
Comfort,
Ride quality,
Ease of Maintenance,
Appearance
Functionality
...to name but a few.

When the parameters are set then the solutions can be found and then put to the test.
Given the computer technology that exists and many fabrication advances, years can be knocked off this process with the same end result.
In fact the end result has to be far better than it was for the RM which came close to being a complete disaster.
If the same happened now in a media savvy world, The RM would have been scrapped at birth and those involved back on the bin round.!!

Still this could be a fun way to stretch the imagination and see how to make the best of the past harmonise with the best of the future.

It can be done, St Pancras, the TX taxi etc.

why dont he buy back rms do them up and put doors on the platform rmc style and have a door in a middle with a ramp for the wheelchirls and buggies it would so work.

you loose a few seats down stairs but i hoping it would work first they should get a dartmaster and convert it to this idea then see if it works

because otherwise we wont get anything because i cant see a new one happening

another note why r bendys still running hurry up boris i want them gone


also i noteced i holloway road at some stops bases foe the pay before you bord machines i hope he hasnt gone back on his word because i will do some action if he has


ding ding

James

The artics won't be going anywhere at least until the end of the current contracts.

Even if Boris would like them gone immediately what would he replace them with ? I doubt even Paul Daniels could make several hundred deckers appear by magic.

The best thing for these bending cattle trucks is to de-bovine them.

Put a conductor on board who can not only issue tickets but also top up oystercards and issue one day travelcards which are still better value for many parts of London. Just like they do on some trains.

Sort out the interiors, put in seats with cushions that don't send every shock waves through your spine, Find a way to increase seating and reduce the congestion of standees. That's how the steamers, muggers and nasties thrive, the cover of the crowding.

And above all, get rid of that vomit inducing gassy smell.

The bendys can play a part in Londons transportation but not on routes where their impact has been to cause congestion - mainly to other buses.

Red Arrows, Peak hour short journey extras, Routes along straight wide avenues can anyone think of any?

As Ropey says, Colin Curtis has already done most of this work in developing the Routemaster, the FRM and the LT sponsored projects in the form of the XRM and subsequently the QRM. To use Colin's own phrase "evolution rather than revolution", what now needs to be done is to evolve those designs still further to accommodate current requirements such as low floors, no steps, environmentally friendly engines etc etc.

What would be the end result? Hopefully an aesthetically pleasing, user friendly design that if it lived up to it's Routemaster ancestry, would be a true World beater and demonstrate to the World that British design ingenuity isn't dead.

We seem to have reached the stage in recent years where the manufacturers dictate to the operators what type of bus they purchase. In the days of the RT and Routemaster, it was the other way around - the operator specified the design and the manufacturers built what they were commissioned to build - hence the plethora of distinctive designs that could be seen around the country. Today, everything looks the same apart from the livery - and often that is all much of a muchness as well.

These are very much the thoughts of a layman - albeit an enthusiast - but this is what I would like to see as a "punter."

Steve

If we look hard enough at the thoughts I suggested to start with and apply such sensible thinking as is available on here to 'Ropeys list' then perhaps we could lay down some ideas for incorporation in any new design starting with the first 2 points on the list ...

What is its aim ? >>> to replace the Routemaster - eerrrr no, as knowone would give it space and credibility [ we would but !! ] we have to 'evolve' so take it from there ..

What should the seating be ? a damned site more comfortable than the current cattle truck & plastic mentality >>> == steel frames [ Routemasters were a mixture of steel and S/steel ] ++ FR FOAM to a minimum depth of 3 inches and why not keep the original design moquette --- its readily available, well recognised, loved and hard wearing so no costings required to make something new ..

Now your turn to add here and move to next topic in the list ...

Well, to look at some of the points (out of sequence), again from a layman's point of view:

Ride Quality - let's see a bus that can be boarded without you flying to the back of the bus when the driver puts his foot on the gas - in other words something that has a certain amount of "idiot proof-ness" built into it to protect us passengers from some of the ill-trained drivers that we seem to have these days. On a wider note, a return to the old standards of driver training would be a good thing but that's a different argument.

Appearance - a bright, modern appearance designed by specialist interior designers that is easy to maintain and to keep clean and to take Al's point regarding seating a step further, seats with a decent bit of legroom so that you can sit down in reasonable comfort. I'm not necessarily talking about a "retro" appearance - let's see what a decent designer could come up with within those perameters.

Versatility - I think in reality we're talking about an OPO vehicle but listening to Boris's latest "Mayor's Questions" he wants a vehicle that could accommodate a conductor (for want of a better word) to assist passengers and presumably for revenue protection purposes. Therefore, you'd need a vehicle with room downstairs for a conductor to circulate. This could be tricky to achieve and would be where the designers would earn their corn.

And whilst we're about it, I'll add a couple more points - let's have some decent ventilation, either in the form of proper opening windows (not hoppers), or a working a/c and heating system. Surely this isn't beyond the wit of man in the 21st Century.

Destination Information - let's see a return to a useful display. I know that we're hamstrung with the DDA but what use is a Route Number and Ultimate Destination to visitors who don't know the full details of a route? How about some sort of scrolling, electric display? These are available and they can be quite clearly and pleasantly presented.

I don't feel qualified to discuss the more technical aspects such as fuel economy etc., but at least I've started the ball rolling!

he could phone wood green garage and get them to run the 29 tommorow and same with 38 at clapton and same with the 73

or get the rms off the that stupid 9h and send them to ct for the 38 and get arria to use they h fleet as well

because these buses have still got the blinds in them i know wood green has for the 29.

also these firms can hire buses off each other like they do for the i bus as we speak

An email i sent to another site recently:

"Hello everyone

I've been reading the many emails on this subject with interest. Isn't there
already a Routemaster built and proven of which the design is presumably
still owned by London Transport's successor? As it worked so well first time
round surely, if an open back crew bus is required for London, the most
logical thing is to simply update that design thus much less proving time
and therefore lower costs. The recent engine and other modifications could
be incorporated and maybe some tweaking of the external design to give it a
modernised look. As for the accessibility issue make the first bay behind
the engine a lift area (the prop shaft is far enough over to not be affected
so just some relocation of equipment in that area). And seating could be
increased by applying the full bay extension as per the sightseeing RM
conversions. The only competition then required would be the tendering
process to build it."

More recently the FRM design was discussed but this would end up looking look like any other rear engined bus and therefore not a Routemsater in the eyes of the public (isn't any half cab a Routemaster to most people).

For non enthusiast Routemaster fans (and many enthusiasts as well) the only answer is a half cab, open platform bus.

David

In the later days of the Routemasters in London I saw they got applied with modern safety signage, ie. the green stickers on the bonnet and emergency exits etc. However, on the bendy buses the EMERGENCY EXIT signs are white with red lettering and the safety signs next to the emergency levers above the doors are white with black lettering which are not to safety sign regulations design.

Routemaster design thread is this one ... keep it going if we are to be part of the action ...... why not as we have as much right to some say on this topic as the rest of London ......

You all have ideas so use them here .......

Ropey please take charge of this thread and lets see what we can collectively put together ........