fishing around libs.org and babyshambles.net, which i vowed never to do again, i witnessed endless complaining about the music scene in the UK. "hah!" i thought. what is there to complain about. i felt like i had been slapped in the face...twice! really, what is there to complain about? think about what i, and many others, have to endure on this continent:
A: American Idol
B: Reality TV shows not only about Jessica Simpson, but now Britney Spears
C: endless terrible hip-hop (some is good, but most is useless)
D: I can't get away from country music!
E: Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan are still putting out the best music in the US (nothing against them, i love dylan, but c'mon! how bout some new blood!)
F: The indie scene was born with Sunny Day Real Estate and Pavement, now, i can't even name two amazing young American indie-bands.
G: The Warped Tour is the only major traveling festival left, and all that is a bunch of soft-pop-punk bands playing music while Tony Hawk and Steve Caballero re-live their glory days of skaetboarding
H: Audioslave and The Velvet Revolver, need I say more, although Tom Morello is a sick guitarist
I: The only good shows in the area are when you lend them to us to open up for shitty american bands, ie. Dead 60's opening up for The Bravery
J: Josh Groban
K: Every is waiting for the Chili Peppers to put out another album, so we can say "Hey, look, America has good music too!"
L: Josh Groban
M: Some how Conor Oberst and Bright Eyes stopped being cool, and became hearthrob for 14 year old girls over night (no offense to the young lady's of the forum.)
N: The only time i get excited for an american show is when Sonic Youth or Iggy Pop muster up enough energy to drag their old bones onto a stage.
O: Still waiting for the next "big thing"
P: Once that happens, everyone will hate them and will find themselves waiting for the next "big thing" (so american)
Q: American Idol
R: Michael Jackson is our "King of Pop" while you guys get to argue over who's better, Radiohead or Oasis.
S: I am still buying Steve Malkmus albums the day they come out
T: Montreal has better music than all of America...MONTREAL!!!
U: Our television commercial are littered with The Kinks, NIck Drake and the Zutons reminding us everyday, that even our music being produced isn't even good enough for a thirty second Pepsi commercial
V: I had to fly to London to see a few proper gigs!
W: Josh Groban
X: American Idol
Y: R&B and soul used to be James Brown and Stevie Wonder, now it's...(well, I dont really know, but I know it's not James Brown!)
Z: You get the Libertines, we get the Strokes...
I apologize for this display, and I thank you all for reading, because none of you ever complain about the state of music in the UK. I just had to vent this frustration. It's more of a sorrow, for the cultural stream and creative process in this country has reached such a lowpoint, i am afraid to think of the young people growing up who are all missing out on the importance of free-thinking and creative expression. This is shown, embarressingly, in the cultural thread of America. I just wanted to give a more direct picture of why i think this is happening.
take care all,
The Nastie One (feeling extra nasty tonight!)
It is particularly easy to fall into the trap of tarring all Americans with the same brush ((that's the glitzy, no soul, sell-out brush - by the way) but that probably isn't fair - there's more to it than that. Yes, we Brits have it best, we really do - I'm glad for that and sorry for you at the same time...
As a bunch, we Brits are generally happier to be watching live bands in dark, sweaty, run down pubs than in huge stadiums. We're more comfortable with things on a smaller scale (we do live on a tiny little island after all) and I think that plays a big part in why we do music better - artists & bands are able to retain their heart and soul for longer, be successful but not "over-the-top" famous.
It does seem that Americans cannot grasp, or even begin to understand, the "less-is-more" philosophy. As a rule, the British are more understated and subdued than their transatlantic counterparts and I reckon that allows us the ability to retain the more charming aspects of life, music and all that's in-between without any desire to super-size, over-publicise or destroy the heart of what it is we love.
There’s another reason I think that we do music well… we’re just more miserable than you lot! England, it has to be said, is probably more guilty of this than Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. We moan and whine and sulk and complain about everything… which is the most fantastic content for (particularly) indie rock songs. Less “Have a nice day”, more “Yeah right whatever”.
Having said that, the USA has given us some amazing artists and that should never be forgotten or go unnoticed.
The Ramones, for example, left an amazing legacy that has changed the face of punk rock. Often considered the first real punk rock band their music changed the landscape of rock music as we know it – they took rock & roll and stripped it back to make it simple, irresistible and catchy; four chords, a much-quickened tempo and mindless lyrics – all great stuff, and a formula that a lot of today’s British bands are sticking to.
The Ramones, along with their predecessors (other US bands not to be forgotten, such as the New York Dolls & The Stooges), started the punk-ball rolling in the UK. Without the presence of these bands everything would be very different (I mean in a bad way)…
Anyway, I'm only scratching the surface here - but there's a lot to be grateful for as an American.... musically speaking.
Please also don't forget that a lot of the things you're complaining about we get bothered with too:
American Idol: Yep, they air that over here too! As if our own reality shows aren't dire enough... (which they really are!) We have a Pop Idol show all of our own, you know?!
More Reality TV- Jessica Simpson & now Britney Spears: Oh yes, we get these too - lucky, lucky us! Feel terrible and responsible that your fellow citizens are making this crap and imposing it on other nations.
Hip-hop:Hello?! Check out our charts. We get hip hop from the US and then our very own brand too, usually from mobs of strangely attired youths (who think they are American) and call themselves The Peckham Massive or something equally silly.
Bob Dylan: Dylan, 64 and still touring, that's some going! And the guy is a genius - a poet.
Festivals:Unlucky! You have a bit of a raw deal - but you do get the SXSW, which was particularly amazing this year.
Audioslave and The Velvet Revolver:It's over here & people seem to like it.....people = people other than me.
Conor Oberst and Bright Eyes: It was always gonna happen, too listenable and too damn pretty (for a boy) – still regarded as quite cool over here, if that’s any consolation.
MONTREAL: This is true. The Dears, The Arcade Fire… there’s some interesting stuff coming out of Montreal. Do you know why this is? Because people from Montreal are actually quite British (in their sense of humour, demeanor etc). I realised this when I met with George Donoso from The Dears earlier this year. People from Montreal aren’t even that keen on people from the rest of Canada, they aim to succeed in the UK and Europe (not Canada & the US) so they write and play with European audiences in mind - clearly it works.
R&B: It’s not just in the US that the words behind the letters have been forgotten. Rhythm & blues people, rhythm and blues…
You get the Libertines, we get the Strokes: Ha! Unlucky!
It's been fun having a rant with you. I have to say, I do love being English and living in the UK. Nowhere's very far on our silly little island and I guess that's why it's easy to be cosy here. You can be at a gig in London one night and be eating lunch in Manchester the next day. Everything is convenient and... musically we DO rock.
** Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.**
This message has been edited by Sponge__Bob from IP address 213.120.113.98 on Jun 1, 2005 1:03 PM
I feel really sorry for you, you sound like you are ging to have a nervous breakdown!Have you heard the music in our charts here at the moment? As i have already moaned about in my reply to 'the smiths' message, everything in our top forty at the moment is agonising as well!
Judging by this and the tv, the UK is turning American! With all the 'Bling' (eugh i hate that word!) festering around crappy 'r and b' posers who don't know the meaning of the phrase R..Y..H..T..H..M..A..N..D..B..L..U..E..S, along with cheesy 'Big Daddies' (as some actually like to be called) bouncing around the stage with humungous gold chains hanging from them and their back to front baseball caps and weird things looking like swimming hats around their heads we are starting to mimic the music you are drowning in! And worse still everyone likes it and buys it! What is becoming of the world?!
What can you listen to over there without being deafened by all this as well? As what i have just described is 'American style' i can only imagine that it is about 10 times worse where you are!
Somebody needs to help us before its too late- Save us Pete Doherty!!! We need your album now!!!
Again, it’s me. I totally forgot to touch on this aspect before, so I felt I had to come back and bang on about Dan’s post for a bit longer.
My friend, the USA does have some great bands, I should totally have said this before – it was going to be my parting paragraph but then I got carried away and forgot.
The USA is home to some fantastic new (new-ish/currently recording) bands and artists; some more experimental bands; bands who are trying new things and finding they are able to produce something a bit magical. A classic example of an elitist, intelligent American band (and my personal favourite) is The Mars Volta, previously At the Drive In. They never fail to impress with their imagination and creativity, their records are challenging and exciting.
The New York indie scene has parented a number of acts that now have mainstream success in Europe too and are highly thought of, bands like Interpol. I know nothing about the current NY scene, but I can’t help but think that there must be something exciting (even slightly underground) going on in Le Grande Pomme.
Detroit, home of Brit favourites The White Stripes, and nicknamed ‘RockCity’ back in the 1970shas a fantastic indie scene I believe. A friend of mine was out there last summer checking out the scene, reviewing a number of smaller (indie & unheard of) bands playing around the city over a 7 day period, and had a fantastic time. I will try and get a copy of the article & reviews for you and post it on here.
And finally, for shits & giggles you have The Mooney Suzuki. They’re colourful, pompous, rude, stupid, and they sing about shagging their groupies – what more could you really want!?!
This is a poor example of what I am trying to say. Basically, don’t lose hope. There’s good stuff out there, amongst the shit, as in all things.
** Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.**
first i just want to thank you guys for actually humoring me on this topic. it is actually a serious one. america, over the years, has had moments of brilliance in music. jazz, blues, rock'n'roll, and punk all have strong roots. Charlie Parker, Robert Johnson, Chuck Berry, Elvis, Bob Dylan, The Band, Velvet Underground, Iggy Pop, David Johanssen, Dee Dee Ramone, sonic Youth,and Dinosaur Jr have all left tidal waves of influence. then Pavement and Slint kicked off the nineties and everything seemed promising. what the hell happened?
i know throughout the 60s 70s 80s there was plenty of crap being produced but it was easier to take because it was dispersed along with the good stuff. there was a creative stream of consciousness flowing through the country's fabric. this is my comparison to the UK. i know there is a lot of crap overseas, especially your hip hop, but it is easier to deal with because of all the honest bands ceating music with integrity that speaks to it's listeners. the music creates culture and moves culture. here music is mostly over-produced and half-hearted and holds little to no cultural value. even our hip hop which was golden at one time is now garbage. we used to have groups like de la soul, tribe called quest and public enemy. now the market is flooded with crap like 50 cent and p-diddy. it's a shame, because this genre was a very cultural moving and groundbreaking phenomenon. whether you liked the music or not, it had a voice, and a string one at that. now the genre has been turned into a joke.
i love your take on the attitude and mood differnces of the countries. i couldnt agree more. i think it has a lot to do with temperments. we are the unaffected people who pretend nothing is wrong, and the UK has endless people that you described. i love it! and i guess that is why canada is producing brillinat music now as well. the dears are incredible and i cant get enough of the Arts and Crafts label, especially Broken Social Scene who are opening up for Dinosaur Jr. during their reunion tour. the contantines rock as well.
NYC, which is only ten minutes from where i live does have some great places to see gigs and some genius bands like Ambulance Ltd. and Onieda, but for the most part, much has been lost in our country's cultural temperment. the last "great" talent our country laid eyes on was Jeff Buckley and he gave us so little. like dylan and leonard cohen before him, he was a true poet that "needed" to create as a catharsis.
as for mars volta, for the first time, i disagree with you. i cant get into them. your other american choices are stellar, but mars volta just have entirely too much pretention for me. maybe over time, i will think differently, but for now, i turn them off.
but i am a happy happy man today for just saw the posting about the Libs album!
Dan, no need to thank us for “humo(u)ring” you (English spelling – does it piss you off?!).
I very much enjoy reading your posts – you keep me on my toes & it’s good to have some reasoned musical discussion and hear a take on things from across-the-pond.
I will take the “you keep me up at night” comment in the politest possible sense… (For anyone reading this I have never actually kept Dan up at night, if you know what I mean). Apologies, there’s a time to be crude and Irealisethat this is potentially not it!
I’m glad to see that you are not in denial of America’s musical past – that was the point I was trying to make. These things usually happen in fits and starts – it may all come right again one day.
Take a look at the 1980s in the UK – bar The Smiths, The Specials and The Cure – there was pretty much nothing going on (in terms of honest, important bands creating waves and leaving a lasting, influential impression). When punk died it left the UK with a massive musical hangover that no amount of Alka-Seltzers and Pepto-Bismol would shift. The result was New Romanticism, dodgy haircuts and buckets of (I’ve sneezed better) synthesized pop.
Toward the end of the 1980s things started to buck up, indie music started to blossom and (on the back of what the Smiths had achieved previously) there was an influx of guitar bands from the north of England that started to wake up – everything began to change.
15 years on and we are where we are now – but it’s been a gradual, slow process. Moments of brilliance and inspiration along the way have made it a pleasant ride to this, perhaps our pinnacle. We now have more choice than ever – the internet (thank you America!) has made it possible for small, unheard of bands to put their music out there & for the general public to hear music that they would never have had access to otherwise.
There has never been a higher turnover of bands, probably never been a better time to be going to gigs, discovering new talent – it’s rife.
But all this also has a downside, the media have come up with a name for it…“firework career” bands. This basically means a lot of what we love & are listening to now will be being melted down to make industrial packing in a couple of years time, the band forgotten whilst former lead singers & guitarists spend their days mopping BP forecourts or flipping burgers, reminiscing about the good old days.
I share your sadness for the lost hip-hop golden era of the USA. Whilst hip-hop was never my cup of tea (translation = it didn’t float my boat. Can a female use that expression?!) there was something true and groundbreaking about what bands like Public Enemy were doing.
I don’t know this Broken Social Scene you speak of, if you have any mp3s I would be grateful to receive some via email or YouSendIt. That would be smashing, let me know... On the subject of Ambulance Ltd, I saw them when they were supporting The Dears and they are super! FYI: They have quite a reputation over here for being a great live act and a bit of a party band.
I realise I am in a slight minority group in my praise of The Mars Volta, particularly over here in the UK, although the show I attended at Manchester Academy was sold out.
It’s hard to go in cold to their stuff – try getting into the At The Drive In stuff first. The Mars Volta are a challenging listen but I do find them a total escape, they are quite openly trying to make music that makes you go “Urrr?” but they are finding something quite powerful in doing that. Did you hear the stuff Omar Rodriguez released with John Frusciante? It was a project they worked on together, called themselves Ataxia. Again, weird & hard to tackle but a breath of fresh air in that it was something totally new & inspiring.
But each to their own, as they say. If we all liked the same the world would be a very boring place.
A pleasure, as always.
** Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.**
Wot am i talking about- how can the simpsons be crap??
IDan- I know what you mean by the whole hip hop thing being a joke- and i am sorry to say this but we too have pdiddy and public enemy over here- joy of joys!! (sarcasm added!!) I seem to live my whole musical life in the hope that Pete Doherty/ Babyshambles or the libertines is going to release something to inject some talent into the sorry situation. Without sky tv and those thousands of music channels i don't get to hear much about new bands other than those who should be in the modelling industry- does anyone know any god magasines for that type of thing? What type of tv do you get in America? are there loads of soaps and stuff? are there really that many mcdonalds?!!
first off i must yell about John Frusciante!!! I am yelling! there is no one i feel more talented right now than that man. Ataxia is fantastic. JF has released 6 LPs this year with a few different people, mostly with Josh Klinghoffer, one of which is with Omar Rodriguez on a song called 666, which omar plays lead. it's off the album Inside of Emptiness. But my favorite if his solo albums is Shadows Collide with people. it was his first release after having transformed himself into what he is right now. but right before signing his big deal.
now, onto the other stuff. the whole "keep me up at night" obviously refers to the fact that my thoughts consume me. it's not enough that i battle my own thoughts while i try to catch some ZZZ's but now i have to ponder those of others, and mostly yours. so what to do. well, i could stop posting, but that would be non-sensical. so i just wrestle with these thoughts all night, and so, you "keep me up at night." sorry for saying it again!
what do i say to the rest? not really sure. Ambulance Ltd. are my favorite band this side of the "pond." i have seen them in their hometown of Brooklyn 3 times and have thrown back a few with them after each show. great gents, and they have never disappointed on stage. they always open their encore with "Fearless" and it is as good as Floyd, i swear. and they do a killer version of Ocean by the Velvet UNderground. but my point can be seen in just that one band. the last time i went to see them in Brooklyn, their hometown, they didnt sell out the venue which is about the size of a quarter of Brixton academy. this is an amazing band who is from Brooklyn and they couldnt sell out a cool, medium sized venue. in the UK they have a stringer following. i just dont get it! there new songs are even better than their first album. they are getting better and better. America just doesnt care. this isnt even really your typical "indie" band. they are as rock 'n' roll as your gonna get. it's a microcosm of the death of interest in the creative stream. god, i keep saying that. but i mean it. the ideologies of this country have no room or use for individuals sharing their extensions through art. booooo to us!
as for Broken Social Scene, i thought you would have been all over them by now! Arts and Crafts is the best label in Canada, maybe North America. Sub Pop and Saddle-Creek would argue of course, but when Comets on Fire, who are good, is your best offer, then it's time to realize better bands are needed. but anyway, along with the Dears , Arcade Fire, the Constantines, Hidden Camera's (who i cannot get enough of), Arts and Crafts does a stellar job in finding and grooming new talent. Stars are solid , jason Collett is remarkable and Broken Social Scene are just undeniably fantastic. i saw them open for the pixies and they rivaled the "oldies." if you give me until next week i can post some of their stuff for anyone on the site.
ok, ok, so where do i go from here? well for starters, i am going to the beach to go fishing for 3 days. i need to get out of the city air! also, i want to add that i apologize for my posts coming at inopportune times, but of course that whole time difference thing screws everything up. also, during work, i cannot get to a computer, so i am limited to time online. i try to post before work though, when possible, which actually works out because some of you are actually awake and doing things, like posting on this site.
but i must get away for the weekend and listen to 5, yes 5, new musicians that i know nothing or very little about. NYC has a brilliant music store that you basically have to have a PHD in music to work there, which is called Other Music. i find an employee and make she or he my personal assistant as i meandor through the store. so, 5 new musicians were introduced to me, and while i am not fishing, i will be listening, and myabe toaking notes. so hopefully something good will come of it, and i can share with all of you!
i am sorry for posting and running like this, but i must leave NOW! (i am sure you can understand)
Would you get the UK bonus tracks on the libertines album if you live in America- im gessin not- thats really dull you would be missin out! when i get the album i will put a link to these songs on this forum for you!!
the simpsons are gods! enough said. television, although not my favorite medium, is actually pretty solid. sopas are abundant during the day and crap shows do filter through, but there are well over 200 channels, so i can find bad ass travel channels, and nature shows, and really cool science shows. of course there are movie channels as well, but they seem to be redundant at times.
as for bonus tracks on Libs CD's or any other releases, it is tough. Tower records in NYC is the only place with solid imports from the UK, Japan, and Germany. other than that, the only way i get my hands on the "good" stuff, is online by websites of bands or through HMV. but of course, i would never let a release sneak by me. i have set up my peronalized weekly reminder from EIL to ensure no LIBs or Shambles rarity snekas by.
So theres no need to put a link to the bonus tracks on here, thats ok then- i was beginning to worry that you may miss out, i think we need all the good music we can get! But i can sleep peacefully now without that weight on my shoulders!!
Whats American radio like- does it just broadcast the thousands of 'big daddies' and hip hop and numerous 'r and b' pretenders? I have to say the UK does seem to favour all that stuff. In my opinion its awful! I guess its the whole 'cool' image that a lot of people get sucked into. If you dont have the image you dont get the praise!
Back to the simpsons (YAY!) do you get all the new episodes? we have billions of repeats here.
well, what really happens here is kind of facist. it's sad really. if you take away college radio stations, all that is left is a conglomerate called clear channel. they own and regulate over 2,000 radio stations across america and basically promote every major concert there is performed. the only ones they do not regulate are indie shows which basically is a handful of very cool, very UK-esque venues. if you want to know which ones, it is easy. just go to Libs.org and look at their gigography for the autumn of 2004. they played what most of us call the "indie-curcuit." it is basically venues along the east coast from montreal down to some southern states. then they'll head out west for a few shows in california and maybe Utah. other than that, indie bands get zero exposure. in america to have a single played, the record company of the band must pay an initial fee of 250,000 dollars to clear channel, roughly 475,000 pounds. then their are other maintenance charges. the band then must play whatever shows clear channel tells them to, as well as promo apperances and bullcrap contests and stuff like that. a few labels in america can afford not to do this because a few of their bands have pused their way into mainstream culture...to an extent. like SubPop Records with Sunny Day Real Estate and Nirvana, Saddle-Creek with Bright Eyes, and Matador with Pavement. but the problem has gotten worse and radio play has gotten worse. so it really has nothing to do with whether a band is cool or not, it all has to do with money.
as for the simpsons, we get a few TV stations that play a few old episodes a night, and then a new one every sunday night. there is NEVER a shortage of the Simpsons. American would be lost without them!!!!
