<< Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  

Excerpts from "The Islamic Invasion" by Dr. Robert Morey

December 24 2005 at 10:59 AM
  (Login iris89)
Forum Owner

 
Here is a posting detailing Excerpts from "The Islamic Invasion" by Dr. Robert Morey; Harvest Home Publishers, 1992. ISBN 0-89081-983-1

[/quote]


The Cult of the Moon God
Astral Religions
The Crescent Moon Symbol
The Gods of the Quraysh
Praying Toward Mecca
A Muslim Taxi Driver
Conclusion
Marriage, Divorce, Adultery and Polygamy
Sinlessness
A Sinful Muhammad?
The Quranic Muhammad
Many Variant Readings of the Quran
Some Verses Missing
Changes in the Quran
Some Verses Abrogated
Some Verses Added
No Originals

Some of the pre-Islamic Sources for material in the Quran

Arabian Sources
Jewish Sources
Heretical Christian Sources
Sabean Sources
Eastern Religious Sources
Arab Racism
A Carnal Heaven
Conclusion

It should not come as a surprise that the word "Allah" was not something invented by Muhammad or revealed for the first time in the Quran.

The well-known Middle East scholar H.A.R. Gibb has pointed out that the reason that Muhammad never had to explain who Allah was in the Quran is that his listeners had already heard about Allah long before Muhammad was ever born (Mohammedanism: An Historical Survey, New York: Mentor Books, 1955, p.38).

Dr. Arthur Jeffery, one of the foremost Western Islamic scholars in modern times and professor of Islamic and Middle East Studies at Columbia University, notes:

"The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa" (Islam: Muhammad, and His Religion, New York: The Liberal Arts Press, 1958, p. 85).

The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article "the" and ilah is an Arabic word for "god." It is not a foreign word. It is not even the Syriac word for God. It is pure Arabic. (There is an interesting discussion of the origins of Allah, in "Arabic Lexicographical Miscellanies" by J. Blau in the Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. XVII, #2, 1972, pp. 173-190).

Neither is Allah a Hebrew or Greek word for God as found in the Bible. Allah is a purely Arabic term used in reference to an Arabian deity. Hastings' Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics I:326, T & T Clark, states:

'"Allah" is a proper name, applicable only to their [Arabs'] peculiar God. '

According to the Encyclopedia of Religion:

'"Allah" is a pre-Islamic name . . . corresponding to the Babylonian Bel' (Encyclopedia of Religion, I:117 Washington DC, Corpus Pub., 1979).

For those who find it hard to believe that Allah was a pagan name for a peculiar pagan Arabian deity in pre-Islamic times, the following quotations may be helpful:

"Allah is found . . . in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam" (Encyclopedia Britannica, I:643).

"The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fashion, a supreme god called Allah" (Encyclopedia off Islam, I:302, Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1913, Houtsma).

"Allah was known to the pre-Islamic . . . Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities" (Encyclopedia off Islam, I:406, ed. Gibb).

"Ilah . . . appears in pre-Islamic poetry . . . By frequency of usage, al-ilah was contracted to Allah, frequently attested to in pre-Islamic poetry" (Encyclopedia off Islam, III:1093, 1971).

"The name Allah goes back before Muhammad" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:41, Anthony Mercatante, New York, The Facts on File, 1983).

"The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god"), and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, I:326, Hastings).

To the testimony of the above standard reference works, we add those of such scholars as Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University who has stated:

"Allah was already known by name to the Arabs" (The Bible and Islam: or, The Influence of the Old and New Testament on the Religion of Mohammed, New York, Charles Scribner's Sons, 1897, p. 102).

Dr. Kenneth Cragg, former editor of the prestigious scholarly journal Muslim World and an outstanding modern Western Islamic scholar, whose works are generally published by Oxford University, comments:

"The name Allah is also evident in archeological and literary remains of pre-Islamic Arabia" (The Call of the Minaret, New York: Oxford University Press, 1956, p. 31).

Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic Studies at Edinburgh University and Visiting Professor of Islamic studies at College de France, Georgetown University, and the University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah. He concludes:

"In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammad and the origins of Islam great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god." In a sense this is a form of paganism, but it is so different from paganism as commonly understood that it deserves separate treatment" (William Montgomery Watt, Muhammad's Mecca, p. vii. Also see his article, "Belief in a High God in Pre-Islamic Mecca", Journal of Semitic Studies, Vol. 16, 1971, pp. 35-40).

Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying:

"There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews" (Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York, Barrons, 1987, p. 28).

According to Middle East scholar E.M. Wherry, whose translation of the Quran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times Allah-worship, as well as the worship of Ba-al, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon, and the stars (A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, Osnabruck: Otto Zeller Verlag, 1973, p. 36).

Astral Religions
In Arabia, the sun god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars such as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah! (Islam, p. 7).

The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god, in addition to other titles that could be given to him.

Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah." These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat.

The daughters of Allah, along with Allah and the sun goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities.

"Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Al-lah" (Encyclopedia of World Mythology and Legend, I:61)".

The Crescent Moon Symbol
The symbol of the worship of the moon god in Arabian culture and elsewhere throughout the Middle East was the crescent moon.

Archaeologists have dug up numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on top of the head of the deity to symbolize the worship of the moon god. In the same fashion as the sun is pictured above the Egyptian deity.

While the moon was generally worshiped as a female deity in the Ancient Near East, the Arabs viewed it as a male deity.

The Gods of the Quraysh
The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammad was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god, and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between the people and Allah.

The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The first two daughters of Allah had names which were feminine forms of Allah.

The literal Arabic name of Muhammad's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. These names reveal the personal devotion that Muhammad's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god.

Praying Toward Mecca
An Allah idol was set up at the Kebah along with all the other idols. The pagans prayed toward Mecca and the Kabah because that is where their gods were stationed.

It only made sense to them to face in the direction of their god and then pray. Since the idol of their moon god, Allah, was at Mecca, they prayed toward Mecca.

The worship of the moon god extended far beyond the Allah-worship in Arabia. The entire fertile crescent was involved in the worship of the moon.

This, in part, explains the early success of Islam among Arab groups that traditionally had worshiped the moon god.

The use of the crescent moon as the symbol for Islam which is placed on the flags of Islamic nations and on the top of mosques and minarets is a throwback to the days when Allah was worshiped as the moon god in Mecca.

While this may come as a surprise to many Christians who have wrongly assumed that Allah was simply another name for the God of the Bible, educated Muslims generally understand this point.

A Muslim Taxi Driver
During one trip to Washington D.C., I got involved in a conversation with a Muslim taxi driver from Iran.

When I asked him. "Where did Islam obtain its symbol of the crescent moon?" he responded that it was an ancient pagan symbol used throughout the Middle East and that adopting this symbol had helped Muslims to convert people throughout the Middle East.

When I pointed out that the word Allah itself was used by the moon-god cult in pre-Islamic Arabia, he agreed that this was the case.

I then pointed out that the religion and the Quran of Muhammad could be explained in terms of pre-Islamic culture, customs, and religious ideas. He agreed with this!

He went on to explain that he was a university-educated Muslim who, at this point in his life, was attempting to understand Islam from a scholarly viewpoint. As a result, he had lost his faith in Islam.

The significance of the pre-Islamic source of the name Allah cannot be over estimated.

Conclusion
In the field of comparative religions, it is understood that each of the major religions of mankind has its own peculiar concept of deity. In other words, all religions do not worship the same God, only under different names.

The sloppy thinking that would ignore the essential differences which divide world religions is an insult the uniqueness of world religions.

Which of the world religions holds to the Christian concept of one eternal God in three persons? When the Hindu denies the personality of God, which religions do not agree with this? Obviously, all men do not worship the same God, or goddesses.

Note: Christians do not understand "the peculiar concept of one eternal God in three persons" but one eternal God with three major offices or dispensation claims.

The Quran's concept of deity evolved out of the pre-Islamic pagan religion of Allah-worship. It is so uniquely Arab that it cannot be simply reduced to Jewish or Christian beliefs.

Marriage, Divorce, Adultery and Polygamy
In his personal life, Muhammad had two great weaknesses. The first was greed. By looting caravans and Jewish settlements he had amassed fabulous wealth for himself, his family, and his tribe (Ali Dashti, 23 Years, p. 86-87; Encyclopedia Britannica, 15:648).

When we turn and look at the life of Muhammad we find that he clearly killed and robbed people in the name of Allah according to the Quran. He taught his disciples by example, command, and precept that they could and should kill and rob in Allah's name and force people to submit to Islam.

His next greatest weakness was women. Although in the Quran he would limit his followers to having four wives, he himself took more than four wives and concubines.

The question of the number of women with whom Muhammad was sexually involved either as wives, concubines or devotees was made a point of contention by the Jews in Muhammad's day. Ali Dashti comments:

"All the commentaries agree that verse 57 of Sura 4 (on-Nesa) was sent down after the Jews criticized Mohammad's appetite for women, alleging that he had nothing to do except to take wives" (Ali Dashti, 23 Years, pp. 120-138).

Since polygamy was practiced in the Old Testament by such patriarchs as Abraham, the mere fact that Muhammad had more than one wife is not sufficient in and of itself to discount his claim to prophethood. But this does negate the fact that the issue has historical in terms of trying to understand Muhammad as a man.

It also poses a logical problem for Muslims. Because the Quran in Sura 4:3 forbids the taking of more than four wives, to have taken any more would have been sinful for Muhammad.

One Muslin apologist with whom I was conversing argued as follows:

"Muhammad was sinless. The Quran makes taking more than four wives a sin. Therefore Muhammad could not have taken more than four wives. Why? Because Muhammad was sinless."

I pointed out that the question of how many wives Muhammad or anyone else had should be answered on the basis of the historical and literary evidence and not blind faith.

Muslim scholar and statesman Ali Dashti gives the following list of the women in Muhammad's life:

1. Khadija 12. Hend
2. Sawda 13. Asma (of Saba)
3. Aesha 14. Zaynab (of Khozayma)
4. Omm Salama 15. Habla
5. Halsa 16. Asma (of Noman)
6. Zaynab (of Jahsh) 17. Mary (the Christian)
7. Jowayriyi 18. Rayhana
8. Omm Habiba 19. Omm Sharik
9. Safiya 20. Maymuna
10. Maymuna (of Hareth) 21. Zaynab (a third one)
11. Fatema 22. Khawla

Several observations need to be given about the above list:

The first 16 women were wives. Numbers 17 and 18 were slaves or concubines.

The last four women were neither wives or slaves but devout Muslim women who "gave" themselves to satisfy Muhammad's sexual desires.

Zaynab of Jahsh was originally Muhammad's adopted son Zaid's wife. The fact that Muhammad took her for himself has been problematic to many people, Muslims included. (God does not break His Own Word and He never changes His mind. Now read Sura 33:36-38).

(The vindicated prophet Moses taught under the Old Testament, that a minister could only marry a virgin or the widow of a minister (Leviticus 21:13-15). The vindicated prophet Jesus taught under the New Testament that an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher can marry only a virgin in the faith -- because he is a type of Christ Who is uniting only with virgins to the Word.

Every prophet from Adam taught that any woman who has more than one living husband is an adulteress, and her subsequent husband is in adultery with her first husband as polygamy was legal only for the man -- Genesis 3:16; Romans 7:1-3).

Aesha was only eight or nine years old when Muhammad took her to his bed. According to Hadith, she was still playing with her dolls. This facet of Muhammad's sexual appetite is particularly distressing to Westerners.

While in Islamic countries an eight-or-nine-year-old girl can be given in marriage to an adult male, in the West, most people would shudder to think of an eight-or-nine-year-old girl being given in marriage to anyone. (Although it is condoned by the Jew's Talmud).

This aspect of Muhammad's personal life is something that many scholars pass over once again because they do not want to hurt the feelings of Muslims. Yet, history cannot be rewritten to avoid confronting the facts that Muhammad had unnatural desires for little girls.

Finally, Mary, the Coptic Christian, refused to marry Muhammad because she would not renounce Christianity and embrace Islam. She bravely chose to remain a slave rather than convert.

The documentation for all the women in Muhammad's harem is so vast and has been presented so many times by able scholars that only those who use circular reasoning can object to it.

Sinlessness
According to the New Testament, Jesus Christ lived a perfect and sinless life (2 Corinthians 5:21).

When His enemies came to accuse Jesus before Pilate and Herod, they had to invent charges because no one could find anything against Him.

But when we turn to the life of Muhammad, we find that he was a normal human being engaged in the same sins which afflict all of us. He lied; he cheated; he lusted; he failed to keep his word, etc. He was neither perfect nor sinless.

A Sinful Muhammad?
After I had given a lecture on Islam at the University of Texas (Austin) in 1991, I was challenged by some Muslim students to prove that Muhammad was a sinner

My first response was to point out that the burden of proof was not on me but on them. I then asked, "Where in the Quran is it ever stated that Muhammad was sinless?"

They could not refer me to a single passage in which such an idea is even suggested, much less taught.

They demanded that I show from the Quran where Muhammad was said to be a sinner. I answered their challenge by citing several passages from the Quran which clearly reveal to any honest reader that Muhammad was a sinner.

The Quranic Muhammad
In Sura 18:110, and elsewhere, Muhammad is commanded by Allah:

"Say, I am but a man like yourselves."

Nowhere in the Quran is Muhammad said to be sinless. Instead, Allah tells Muhammad that he is no different than any other man.

Those Muslims who claim that Muhammad was sinless have failed to note Sura 40:55, where Allah told Muhammad to repent of his sins!

Muhammad Pickthal translates Sura 40:55 as saying:

"Ask forgiveness of thy sin".

The only way out of this passage is to state that Allah was wrong to ask Muhammad to ask for forgiveness because he had nothing to forgive!

Pickthal's translation of Sura 48:1, 2 states:

"Lo! We have given thee,
(O Muhammad), signal victory,
that Allah may forgive thee
of past and that which is to
come, and may perfect His
favor unto thee, and guide
thee on a right path"

Not only was Muhammad commanded to repent of his sins and to seek forgiveness, but he was also reminded off his past sins that Allah had already forgiven and of future sins which would need future forgiveness!

Muhammad was not sinless according to the Quran. He was just one more poor sinner in need of forgiveness and redemption.

Many Variant Readings of the Quran
Muslims attack the Bible on the grounds that it sometimes has conflicting wording from different manuscripts. Yet this is exactly the case with the text of the Quran. There are many conflicting readings on the text of the Quran as Arthur Jeffery has demonstrated in his book, Material for the History of the Text of the Quran (New York, Russell F. Moore, 1952).

At one point Jeffery gives 90 pages of variant readings on the text. For example, in Sura 2 there are over 140 conflicting and variant readings on the text of the Quran.

All Western and Muslim scholars admit the presence of variant readings in the text of the Quran (Dashti, 23 Years, p. 28; Mandudi, Meaning of the Quran, pp. 17-18; McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia, V152).

Guillaume points out that the Quran at first "had a large number of variants, not always trifling in significance" (Islam, p. 189).

"It is interesting to note that in scholarly Muslim journals, there is beginning to be a grudging acknowledgment of the fact that there are variant and conflicting readings on the text of the Quran" (One example would be Saleh al-Wahaihu, "A Study of Seven Quranic Variants," International Journal of Islamic and Arabic Studies, Vol. V (1989), #2, pp. 1-57).

Some Verses Missing
According to Professor Guillaume in his book, Islam, (pp. 191ff.), some of the original verses of the Quran were lost.

For example, one Sura originally had 200 verses in the days of Ayesha. But by the time Uthman standardized the text of the Quran, it had only 73 verses! A total of 127 verses had been lost, and they have never been recovered.

The Shiite Muslims claim that Uthman left out 25 percent of the original verses in the Quran for political reasons (McClintock and Strong, Cyclopedia, V:152).

That there are verses which got left out of Uthman's version of the Quran is universally recognized (Shorter Encyclopedia off Islam, pp. 278-282; Guillaume, Islam, p. 191; Wherry, A Comprehensive Commentary on the Quran, pp. 110-111).

John Burton's book, The Collection of the Quran, which was published by Cambridge University, documents how such verses were lost (London University Press, 1977, pp. 117ff. See also Arthur Jeffery, Islam: Muhammad and His Religion, New York; Liberal Arts Press, 1958, pp. 66-68).

Burton states concerning the Muslim claim that the Quran is perfect:

"The Muslin accounts of the history of the Quran texts are a mass of confusion, contradiction and inconsistencies" (Burton, Collection, p. 231).

Changes in the Quran
One interesting way that some off the original verses of the Quran were lost is that a follower of Muhammad named Abdollah Sarh would make suggestions to Muhammad about rephrasing, adding to, or subtracting from the Suras. Muhammad often did as Sarh suggested.

Ali Dashti explains what happened:

"Abdollah renounced Islam on the ground that the revelations, if from God, could not be changed at the prompting of a scribe such as he. After his apostasy he went to Mecca and joined the Qoray****es" (Dashti, 23 Years, p. 98).

It is no wonder that when Muhammad conquered Mecca one of the first people he killed was Abdollah, for he knew too much and opened his mouth too often.

Some Verses Abrogated
In the abrogation process spoken of earlier, verses which are contradictory to Muslim faith and practice have been removed from the text, such as the "satanic verses" in which Muhammad approved of the worship of the three goddesses, the daughters of Allah.

The Arabic scholar E. Wherry comments:

"There being some passages in the Quran which are contradictory, the Muhammadan doctors obviate any objection from thence by the doctrine of abrogation; for they say that God in the Quran commanded several things which were for good reasons afterwards revoked and abrogated" (A Comprehensive Commentary on the Qurun, p. 110).

Wherry goes on to document numerous examples of verses taken out of the Quran.

Canon Sell in his work, Historical Development of the Quran, also comments on the practice of abrogating verses out of the Quran if they are troublesome:

"It is to us astounding how so compromising a procedure can have been permitted to be introduced into the system by friends and foes (Madras: Diocesan Press, 1923, pp. 36-37).

Some Verses Added
Not only have parts of the Quran been lost, but entire verses and chapters have been added to it.

For example, Ubai had several Suras in his manuscript of the Quran which Uthman omitted from his standardized text.

Thus there were Qurans in circulation before Uthman's text which had additional revelations from Muhammad that Uthman did not find or approve of, and thus he failed to place them in his text.

No Originals
As to the claim that the original manuscript of the Quran is still in existence, we have already pointed out there was no single "manuscript" of the Quran.

Caesar Farah in his book on Islam, states:

"When Muhammad died there existed no singular codex of the sacred text" (Caesar Farah, Islam: Beliefs and Observations, New York; Barrons, 1987, p. 28).

The Shorter Encyclopedia off Islam comments:

"One thing only is certain and is openly recognized by tradition, namely, that there was not in existence any collection of revelations in the final form, because, as long as he was alive, new revelations were being added to the earlier ones" (p. 271).

Some of the pre-Islamic Sources for material in the Quran


Arabian Sources
The Quran repeats fanciful Arabian fables as if they were true.

"Arabic legends about the fabulous jinns fill its pages" (G.G. Pfander, Balance of Truth, pp. 283).

"The story of the she-camel who leapt out of a rock and became a prophet was known long before Muhammad" (Suras 7:73-77,85; 91:14; 54:29).

The story of an entire village of people who were turned into apes because they broke the sabbath by fishing was a popular legend in Muhammad's day (Suras 2:65; 7:163-166).

The gushing 12 springs story found in Sura 2:60 comes from pre-Islamic legends.

In what is called the "Rip Van Winkle" story, seven men and their animals slept for 309 years in a cave and then woke up perfectly fine (Sura 18:9-26)!

This legend is found in Greek and Christian fables as well as Arabian lore.

The fable of the pieces of four dead, cut-up birds getting up and flying was well known in Muhammad's time (Sura 2:260).

It is also clear that Muhammad used such pre-Islamic literature as the Saba Moallaqat of Imra'ul Cays in his composition of Suras 21:96; 29:31,46; 37:59; 54:1, and 93:1.

Jewish Sources
Many of the stories in the Quran come from the Jewish Talmud, the Midrash, and many apocryphal works.

This was pointed out by Abraham Geiger in 1833, and further documented by another Jewish scholar, Dr. Abraham Katsh, of New York University, in 1954 (The Concise Dictionary of Islam, p. 229; Jomier, The Bible and the Quran -- Henry Regency Co., Chicago, 1959, 59ff; Sell, Studies, pp. 163ff.; Guillaume, Islam, p. 13).

1. The source of Sura 3:35-37 is the fanciful book called The Protevangelion's James the Lesser.

2. The source of Sura 87:19 is the Testament of Abraham.

3. The source of Sura 27:17-44 is the Second Targum of Esther.

4. The fantastic tale that God made a man "die for a hundred years" with no ill effects on his food, drink, or donkey was a Jewish fable (Sura 2:259ff.).

5. The idea that Moses was resurrected and other material came from the Jewish Talmud (Sura 2:55, 56, 67).

6. The story in Sura 5:30,31 can also be found in pre-Islamic works from Pirke Rabbi Eleazer, the Targum of Jonathan ben Uzziah and the Targum of Jerusalem.

7. The tale of Abraham being delivered from Nimrod's fire came from the Midrash Rabbah (see Suras 21:51-71; 29:16, 17; 37:97,98).

It must be also pointed out that Nimrod and Abraham did not live at the same time. Muhammad was always mixing people together in the Quran who did not live at the same time.

8. The non-biblical details of the visit of the Queen of Sheba (Saba) in Sura 27:20-44 came from the Second Targum of the Book of Esther.

9. The source of Sura 2:102 is no doubt the Midrash Yalkut (chapter 44).

10. The story found in Sura 7:171 of God lifting up Mount Sinai and holding it over the heads of the Jews as a threat to squash them if they rejected the law came from the Jewish book Abodah Sarah.

11. The story of the making of the golden calf in the wilderness, in which the image jumped out of the fire fully formed and actually mooed (Suras 7:148; 20:88), came from Pirke Rabbi Eleazer.

12, The seven heavens and hells described in the Quran came from the Zohar and the Hagigah.

13. Muhammad utilized the Testament of Abraham to teach that a scale or balance will be used on the day of judgment to weigh good and bad deeds in order to determine whether one goes to heaven or hell (Suras 42:17; 101:6-9).

Heretical Christian Sources
One of the most documented and damaging facts about the Quran is that Muhammad used heretical "Christian" Gnostic gospels and their fables for material in the Quran.

Encyclopedia Britannica comments:

"The gospel was known to him chiefly through apocryphal and heretical sources" (15:648).

This has been demonstrated many times by various scholars (Richard Bell, Introduction to the Quran, pp. 163ff. See also: Bell, The Origin of Islam in Its Christian Environment, pp. 110ff, 139ff; Sell, Studies, pp. 216ff. See also Tisdall and Pfander).

For example, in Suras 3:49 and 100:11O, the baby Jesus speaks from the cradle! Later on, the Quran has Jesus making clay birds come alive.

The Bible tells us that the first miracle Jesus did was at the wedding at Cana (John 2:11).

Sabean Sources
Muhammad incorporated parts of the religion of the Sabeans into Islam (Encyclopedia off Islam (ed. Eliade), pp. 303ff.; International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, pp. 1:219ff.).

He adopted such pagan rituals as:

Worshiping at Kabah

Praying five times a day towards Mecca (Muhammad chose five of the same times the Sabeans prayed).

Fasting for part of a day for an entire month.

Eastern Religious Sources
Muhammad derived some of his ideas from Eastern religions such as Zoroastrianism and Hinduism. All of these things were in existence long before Muhammad was born.

The Quran records the following things which are ascribed to Muhammad but in reality were previously known stories now attributed to him for the first time (Sell, Studies, pp. 219ff.).

The story of a flying trip through seven heavens.

The Houries of paradise.

Azazil and other spirits coming up from Hades.

The "light" of Muhammad.

The bridge of Sirat.

Paradise with its wine, women, and song (from the Persians).

The king of death.

The peacock story.

Arab Racism
According to the literal Arabic translation of Sura 3:106, 107, on Judgment Day, only people with white faces will be saved. People with black faces will be damned.

A Carnal Heaven
The Quran promises a heaven full of wine and free sex (Suras 2:25; 4:57; 11:23; 47:15).

If drunkenness and gross immorality is sinful on earth, how is it right in Paradise?

The Quran's picture of paradise is exactly what a seventh-century pagan Arab would have thought wonderful.

The carnal concept of a harem of beautiful women and all the wine you can drink is in direct conflict with the spirituality and holiness of the Biblical concept of heaven (Revelation 22:12-17).

Conclusion
While the devout Muslim believes with all of his heart that the rituals and doctrines of Islam are entirely heavenly in origin and thus cannot have any earthly sources, Middle East scholars have demonstrated beyond all doubt that every ritual and belief in Islam can be traced back to pre-Islamic Arabian culture.

In other words Muhammad did not preach anything new. Everything he taught had been believed and practiced in Arabia long before he was ever born. Even the idea of "only one God" was borrowed from the Jews and the Christians. islam.htm

(Excerpts from "The Islamic Invasion" by Dr. Robert Morey; Harvest Home Publishers, 1992. ISBN 0-89081-983-1)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/[/quote]

 
 Respond to this message   
AuthorReply

(Login iris89)
Forum Owner

Introduction to basic facts of history:

December 24 2005, 11:06 AM 

Introduction to basic facts of history:

Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah.
This Hubal was a moon god.
One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world:
About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god". Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as "al-ilah".
"al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new religion in 610 AD.
There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah".
When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah".
Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.
Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god.
Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism.
Hubal the moon god of the Kabah

Allah the moon god of the Kabah

Remnants of pagan Moon god worship in the Koran

Pre-Islamic Origin of the word Allah

Photogallery of the ancient history of Moon god worship

Modern usage of moon god symbols in Islam today.

The Bible condemns moon god worship


 
 Respond to this message   

(Login iris89)
Forum Owner

Was Allah The Moon God of Ancient Arab Pagan?

December 24 2005, 11:10 AM 

Was Allah The Moon God of Ancient Arab Pagan?



By Syed Kamran Mirza



Historical evidences, impartial logic, well versed references and all available circumstantial judgments can very well prove that—(a) Allah name of deity was pre-existed much before the arrival of Islam, (b) Pre-Islamic Pagan peoples worshipped Allah as their supreme deity (moon-god). Allah’s name existed in pre-Islamic Arab. In ancient Arab the Allah was considered to be the supreme God/deity (as Moon-God) and Arab Pagans worshipped Allah before Islam arrived.



Let us examine below some valid questions and answers :

Did the Pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods? Yes

Did the pagans Arabs worship the sun, moon and the stars? Yes

Did the Arabs built temples to the Moon-god? Yes

Did different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names/titles? Yes

What were some of the names/titles? Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah.

Was the title “al-ilah” (the god) used as the Moon-god? Yes

Was the word “Allah” derived from “al-ilah?” Yes

Was the pagan “Allah” a high god in a pantheon of deities? Yes.

Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.

Was Allah only one of many Meccan gods? Yes

Did they place a statue of Hubul on top of the Kabah? Yes.

At that time was Hubul considered the Moon-god? Yes.

Was the Kabah thus the “house of the Moon-god”? Yes.

Did the name “Allah” eventually replace that of Hubul as the name of the Moon god? Yes.

Did they call the Kabah the “house of Allah”? Yes.

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.

Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.

Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.

What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”



The variable names (Sin, Hubul, llumquh, Al-ilah) of moon god were used by various tribes of pagan Arabs. Pagan god SIN was the name of Moon-god.





Who is actually Allah?



According to Islamic Theologians (Mullahs, Maulana, Moulavis, etc.), or Islamic teachings-- Allah is the supreme God or creator who (suddenly one day?) talked or introduced Himself with Prophet Muhammad through an Angel named Gabriel, disclosing the truth that it is the Allah who created everything in the universe. Surprisingly, Qur’an never defines the word “Allah” as to who actually Allah was or what was the relation of Allah with pagans. I believe, 99% percent of Muslims do believe that—Allah’s name was invented or started right from the time when Gabriel disclosed the truth (?) to Prophet Muhammad in the cave of Hira Parvat (Mountain) and gave Muhammad the Quran. They believe that before this truth was revealed—pagan Arabs were in the total darkness (Andhakar Zuug) and they used to worship various puppet goddess and that the pagans were very evil people. I can bet on this fact that no mullahs ever told us the real truth, neither they believe this clean truth that “Allah” was in fact a pre-existing deity in pagan Arabia. What a hypocrisy?



Some important factors which will suggest that the name“Allah” was already in use by Pagans as their chief God/deity:



(A) In pre-Islamic days, that Muslims call the Days of ignorance, the religious background of the Arabs was pagan, and basically animistic. Through Moon, Sun, Stars, Planets, Animals, wells, trees, stones, caves, springs, and other natural objects man could make contact with the deity. At Mekka, “Allah” was the chief of the gods and the special deity of the Quraish, the prophet’s tribe. Allah had three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus) most revered of all and pleased with human sacrifice; Manah, the goddess of destiny, and Al Lat, the goddess of vegetable life. These three daughters of Allah (there is a Quranic verse about them) were considered very powerful over all things. Therefore, their intercessions on behalf of their worshippers were of great significance.

(B) Arabs used to give their children names such as—Abdullah (slave of Allah). Clean proof was the fact that, Muhammad’s father’s name was “Abdullah”. Logical analogy here is—had there been no “Allah” in pre-Islamic Arab, there could be no Abdullah or slave of Allah in Arabia.

(C) Even today, in the entire Arab World, not only Muslims but all other non-Muslim (Jews, Christians, Sabians, Bahai, an atheist etc.) Arabs says—“Ya Allah” as the expression of surprise or unhappiness/sorrow.

(D). Albert Hourani’s statement: “The Islamic name used for God was “Allah”, which was already in use for one of the local Gods (it now used by Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians as the name of God (A history Of Arab people by Albert Hourani, 1991, page-16, Belknap press of Harvard University, USA)



History tells us two theories of Allah’s existence in and around the Kaba Sharif: (1) Pagans used to call the largest Statue amongst the 360 deities as ALLAH—whom they used to consider the chief/supreme deity (god). Or, (2) Pagan Arabs used to worship 360 deities inside Kaba Sharif, and they used to consider them different smaller deities under the total control of a single most powerful chief deity called “ALLAH” who was invisible (Nirakar) and was the all-powerful, all-knowing, and totally unknowable.



Amazing Similarities with Hindu Religion:



In India’s Hindu religion is quite similar to the number two theory (above) of pagan belief. Although, Hindus worship many different Goddesses—they invariably have faith upon a single supreme invisible deity called “Bhagaban” (some call it “Ischhaar”) whom they call “Nirakar”. And, surprisingly there is no sculptural image/figure for this Bhagaban. But all Hindus worship Him along with other numerous deities. This Bhagaban is considered as the lord of all other deities. What would happen—if some intelligent prophet would have asked Hindus to give up worshipping other goddesses and keeping only Bhagaban as their only deity making it a monotheist religion just like Islam? Could it not be another religion like Islam?



Now some factors which will suggest “Allah” was the Moon-god of Arab pagans:



(A) In Qura’n there are at least a dozen verses in which Allah repeatedly swears by the names such as moon, sun, stars, planets, night, wind etc. It is a mystery why the creator Allah (?) should swear by his creations. Normally, we swear by the name of something much superior to us, such as we swear by God or by the name of our father (who is considered senior or superior to us). But we never swear by the name of something inferior to us. Here in the Quran swearing fashions of Allah (God) by moon or stars hinting us that Allah considered these things superior to himself. And this makes us to think (otherwise) as to who actually acted as Allah in Quran? However, in his explanation of why the Qur’an swears by the moon in Surah 74:32, “Nay, verily by the Moon,” Yusuf Alli comments, “The moon was worshipped as a deity in times of darkness”(fn. 5798, pg. 1644). Perhaps, this swearing of Allah was due to the usual/cultural habits of worshipping moon as their God in pagan customs.



(B) Yousuf Ali stated (Page-1921-1623 of his English Translation of Holy Quran):



“Moon-worship was equally popular in various forms………Apollo and Diana—the twin brother and sister, representing the sun and moon. …in the Vedic religion of India the moon god was Soma, the lord of the planets…….moon was male divinity in ancient India. Moon was also male divinity in ancient Semitic religion, and the Arabic word for the moon “qamar’ is of the masculine gender, on the other hand, the Arabic word for sun “shams” is feminine gender. The pagan Arabs evidently looked upon the sun as a goddess and the moon as a God.



The Pagan deities best known in the Ka’ba and round about Mecca were Lat, Uzza, and Manat.…the 360 idols established by the Pagans in the Ka’ba probably represented the 360 days of an inaccurate solar year. This was the actual modern pagan worship as known to the Quraish contemporary with our prophet”



(C) Influence of Moon in Islam:



Who can deny the paramount influences of moon in Muslim’s life? In Islam, moon is considered holiest astronomical object, and moon is the guiding light of all Islamic rituals/festivals. Contradictions and conflicts are very common with the dates of Eids and Ramadan and obviously it is a chronic problem and moon is the nucleus of this problem. Crescent moon and stars are the symbolic sign in the national flags of many Muslim countries, and it is present over the Mosques, in the Muslim graveyard etc.



Prophet Muhammad compromised to Pagans to establish Islam in Arabia:



Prophet Muhammad did his clever tactics of adapting many rites of paganism into Islam, in order to accommodate Islam among the pagan Arabs. He made lots of political pacts with the Pagan Leaders such as Abu Suffian to accommodate his new idea of religion and he agreed to incorporate many of the Pagan rituals in Islam. Prophet Muhammad asked the pagans to worship only the “Allah” the largest God,

And destroy the idols of all other gods and goddesses that existed in Kabah. To establish oneness (monotheist) of God, he repeatedly asked them not to make any partners to Allah (That is why we can find hundreds of Quranic verses “asking not to make any partners to Allah). Finally, the Prophet was able to convince (by force of course) the pagans to destroy all idols, and on return (he) agreed (perhaps) to keep the “Names” of the goddess of most famous Pagan tribes as the alternative names of Allah—hence Islam has 99 NAMES of Allah.



Prophet Muhammad did command his followers to participate in these pagan ceremonies while the pagans were still in control of Mecca. (Please See Yusuf Ali, fn. 214, pg. 78). ... “the whole of the [pagan] pilgrimage was spiritualized in Islam...” (Yusuf Ali: fn. 223 pg. 80). In the Tafsir (of Quran-2:200) maoulana Yousuf Ali stated: “After Pilgrimage, in Pagan times, the pilgrims used to gather in assemblies in which the praises of ancestors were sung. As the whole of the pilgrimage rites were spiritualized in Islam, so this aftermath of the Pilgrimage was also spiritualized. It was recommended for pilgrims to stay on two or three days after the pilgrimage, but they must use them in prayer and praise to God.(#223 of Shane’nazul by Maoulana Yousuf Ali, page-81)



In Islam many rituals performed (today) by devoted Muslims in the name of Allah are connected to the pagan worship that existed before Islam. Pagans practices of the Pilgrimage of Kabah once a year--the Fast of Ramadan, running around the Kabah seven times, kissing the black stone, shaving the head, animal sacrifices, running up and down two hills, throwing stones at the devil, snorting water in and out the nose, praying several times a day toward Mecca, giving alms, Friday prayers, etc. are strictly followed by Muslims today. Nobody can deny the fact that, all the above rituals of Muslim’s hajj today—existed well before the arrival of Islam.



It is highly plausible to consider the fact that by incorporating much of the Pagan’s rituals in new religion Islam—Prophet successfully reduced the pagan-risk and it was perhaps one of the most important milestone-attempts to conquer the minds of Pagans resulting in massive breakdown of the Pagans’ moral and support to oppose Islam.

The central shrine at Mekka was the Pagan’s Kaaba (called House of Allah), a cube like stone structure which still stands though many times rebuilt. Imbedded in one corner is the black stone, probably a meteorite, the kissing of which is now an essential part of the Muslim’s pilgrimage.



It is the historical fact that the Ka’aba, the sacred shrine which contains the Black Stone, in Mecca was used for pagan idol worship before Islam and even called the House of Allah at that time. The name of the God whom the Arabs worshipped was the god of pantheon—Ali-ilah the god, the supreme, the predeterminer of everybody’s life or destiny—the chief God “Allah”



Who did not read the story of BLACK STONE which was very sacred (povitra) to all various tribes of Quraish. When one day this sacred stone was needed to transfer from one place to another, there was a quarrel amongst the various tribes, as to who will carry that sacred stone? Then most intelligent and righteous young boy Muhammad (was not a prophet then) invented the solution of this serious problem. He (Muhammad) put this sacred stone over a Chaddor (piece of cloth) and asked one representative from each tribe to hold the Chaddor and carry the stone. I narrated this story briefly just to prove that—black stone did exist long before Islam was invented.

In summary, it has been truthfully and logically proven with all possible available circumstantial evidences/rational that, Islam was not a new religion but it is a reformed paganism. I believe thatall these monotheistic religions have more or less similar origins. This idea of monotheistic religion was not a brand new invention. Monotheistic thought was declared by Ancient Pharaoh Kings, Mesopotamia’s king Hamarubi (3000 B.C.), and Alexander the Great (300 B.C.). Differences were, these kings demanded that they themselves were the God whom everybody should worship.



References:



1. The Holy Qur’an, Translated by A. Yousuf Ali, Published by Amana Corporation, Brentwood, Maryland, 1983

2. Buchari Sharif, Bengali Translation by Maulana Muhammad Mustafizur Rahman, Sulemani Printers and Publishers, Dhaka, Second edition-1999

3. A History of the Arab peoples, by Albert Hourani, the Belknap press of Harvard University press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1991

4. Dr. Robert Morey, 1996 Research and Education Foundation.

5. Gilchrist, The Temple, The Ka’aba, and the Christ (Benoni, South Africa, 1980), p. 16.

6. G. J. O. Moshay, Who Is This Allah?, (Dorchester House, Bucks, UK, 1994), pg. 138

7. Ibn Warraq, Why I Am Not A Muslim, (Prometheus, Amherst, 1995) p. 42.



8. Encyclopedia of Islam, eds. Lewis, Menage, Pellat, Schacht (Leiden: E. J. Brill, 1971, II:1093.)

9. Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (ed. Hastings), I:326.



10.The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Mythology, Arthur Cotterell and Rachel Storm, Lorenz Books, New York 10011, Anness Publishing Limited 1999

11. Roots of the Western Tradition, (a short history of ancient world) by C.Warren Hollister, Library of congress cataloging-in-publication data, 6th edition, 1



Syed_mirza@hotmail.com

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login iris89)
Forum Owner

Links

December 24 2005, 11:17 AM 



    
This message has been edited by iris89 on Jan 1, 2006 1:13 PM


 
 Respond to this message   

(Login iris89)
Forum Owner

Excerpted from "Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled"

December 27 2005, 12:43 PM 

Suns of God:

by Acharya S

The Christmas Hoax:
Jesus is NOT the "Reason for the Season"
The December 25th birthday of the sun god is a common motif globally, dating back at least 12,000 years as reflected in winter solstices artfully recorded in caves. "Nearly all nations," says Doane, commemorated the birth of the god Sol to the "Queen of Heaven" and "Celestial Virgin." The winter solstice was celebrated in countless places, including China and Persia, the latter regarding the solar Lord and Savior Mithra's birth. In Rome, a great festival called "Saturnalia" was celebrated from December 1st to the 23rd. The winter solstice festival in Egypt included the babe in a manger brought out of the sanctuary.

Regarding the date of the "Christmas Feast," the Catholic Encyclopedia ("Christmas") remarks:

The well-known solar feast...of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date....

The earliest rapprochement of the births of Christ and the sun is in Cypr., "De pasch. Comp.", xix, "...O, how wonderfully acted Providence that on that day on which that Sun was born...Christ should be born." In the fourth century, Chrysostom, "del Solst. Et Æquin." (II, p. 118, ed. 1588), says: "...But Our Lord, too, is born in the month of December...the eight before the calends of January [25 December]... But they call it the 'Birthday of the Unconquered'. Who indeed is so unconquered as Our Lord...? Or, if they say that it is the birthday of the Sun, He is the Sun of Justice." Already Tertullian (Apol., 16; cf. Ad. Nat., I, 13; Orig. c. Cels., VIII, 67, etc) had to assert that Sol was not the Christians' God; Augustine (Tract xxxiv, in Joan. In P. L., XXXV, 1652) denounces the heretical indentification of Christ with Sol. Pope Leo I (Serm. xxxvii in nat. dom., VII, 4; xxii, II, 6 in P. L., LIV, 218 and 198) bitterly reproves solar survivals--Christians, on the very doorstep of the Apostles' basilica, turn to adore the rising sun.

Ancient Greeks celebrated the birthday of Hercules and Dionysus on this date, as the ancient authority Macrobius (c. 400 AD/CE) maintained. Even the Greek father god, Zeus, was supposedly born at the winter solstice. The "Christmas" festival was celebrated at Athens and was called "the Lenaea," during which time, apparently, "the death and rebirth of the harvest infant Dionysus were similarly dramatized." This Lenaea festival is depicted in an Aurignacian cave-painting in Spain, with a "young Dionysus with huge genitals," standing naked in the middle of "nine dancing women." The Aurignacian period extended from 34,000 to 23,000 years ago. In The White Goddess (399), mythologist Robert Graves states:

The most ancient surviving record of European religious practices is an Aurignacian cave-painting at Cogul in North-Eastern Spain of the Old Stone Age Lenaea. A young Dionysus with huge genitals stands un-armed, alone and exhausted in the middle of a crescent of nine dancing women, who face him. He is naked, except for what appear to be a pair of close-fitting boots laced at the knee; they are fully clothed and wear small cone-shaped hats. These wild women, differentiated by their figures and details of their dress, grow progressively older as one looks clock-wise around the crescent...

By using the term "Dionysus," Graves is not stating that it was written on the walls of the cave. He is using it to describe an archetype that is very ancient.

The Greco-Syrian sun god Adonis--the "Adonai" of the Bible--was also born on December 25th, a festival "spoken of by Tertullian, Jerome, and other Fathers of the Church, who inform us that the ceremonies took place in a cave, and that the cave in which they celebrated his mysteries in Bethlehem, was that in which Christ Jesus was born."

Nor is the winter solstice celebration a purely "Pagan" concept, as the Jews also observed it in reference to the birth of their god, Yahweh. The "Feast of Illumination," "Feast of Lights" or "feast of the Dedication," occurred in winter (John 10:22-23; Josephus's Antiquities XIII, 7.7) and represented the "ancient Hebrew Winter Solstice Feast." Regarding this Hannukah feast, in The White Goddess (469), Graves also says:

The rabbinical account is that this eight-day festival which begins on the twenty-fifth day of the month Kislev, was instituted by Judas Maccabeus and that it celebrates a miracle: at the Maccabean consecration of the Temple a small cruse of sacred oil was found, hidden by a former High Priest, which lasted for eight days. By this legend the authors of the Talmud hoped to conceal the antiquity of the feast, which was originally Jehovah's birthday as the Sun-god and had been celebrated at least as early as the time of Nehemiah (Maccabees, I, 18).

From the account in Ezekiel of the Temple priests holding secret rites--sacrilegious in Ezekiel's opinion--we know that there is an esoteric tradition within Judaism that is not made known to the masses. Graves is apparently suggesting that this esoteric tradition included the knowledge of Jehovah/Yahweh as a sun god--as asserted and demonstrated by numerous authorities and researchers--and that, as a sun god, he too was typically considered as born on the winter's solstice. These inferences make for further studies by interested parties.

Indians for millennia have celebrated the winter solstice, as a cardinal point, the new year and, presumably, the birth of the sun god. In the Indian solstice celebration--a "great religious festival"--there is "rejoicing everywhere." As in the West, the Indians "decorate their houses with garlands, and make presents to friends and relatives," a "custom of very great antiquity." One way the Brahman priests of Orissa have celebrated the solstice is by carrying images of "the youthful Krishna to the houses of their disciples and their patrons, to whom they present some of the red powder and tar of roses, and receive presents of money and cloth in return." Thus, in India the winter solstice has been as much a major holiday as it was anywhere, which is to be expected in a land permeated with sun worship for millennia.

Regarding the Persian sun god Mithra and his sacrifice, in the 19th century respected Christian author Rev. J.P. Lundy remarked:

"For let it be borne in mind that it was precisely at the season of this sacrifice, near the beginning of the new year, that the birth of Mithra was celebrated over all Persia and the world, in temple-caves, on the night of the 24th of December, the night of light. Even the British Druids celebrated it, and called the next day, the 25th of December, Nollagh or Noel, the day of regeneration, celebrating it with great fires on tops of their mountains. In fact, all nations, as if by common consent, at the first moment after midnight of the 24th of December, celebrated the birth of the sun-god, type among the Gentiles of Christ, the Incarnate Son of God, as the Desire of all nations and the Saviour of the world."

Lundy was thus well aware of the sun gods, whom he deemed "types of Christ," indicating Christ's solar nature as well.

Concerning the winter solstice festival in Ireland, the author of Christian Mythology Unveiled relates:

"The Baal-fire feast, or meeting, was a great festival in Ireland, on the 25th of December, and midsummer eve. Baal, or Bel, was a name of the sun all over the east."

It is important to note that the "December 25th" birthdate only applies to the age and hemisphere in which the winter solstice falls on December 21-24. In other ages, the solstice month is different, changing with the precession of the equinoxes every 2150 years.

The December 25th birthdate is that of the sun, not a "real person," revealing its unoriginality within Christianity and the true nature of the Christian godman. "Christmas" was not incorporated into Christianity until 354 AD/CE. In reality, there is no evidence, no primary sources which show that "Jesus is the reason for the season."

Happy Solstice!

Excerpted from "Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled"

(c) 2006 Acharya S

Suns of God:
Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled
by Acharya S
Fellow, Committee for the Scientific Examination of Religion
Member, American School of Classical Studies, Athens, Greece


Foreword by Dr. W. Sumner Davis,
Fellow, Royal Astronomical Society
Member, American Geophysical Union
Affiliate, New York Academy of Science
http://www.truthbeknown.com/sunsofgod.htm


    
This message has been edited by iris89 on Dec 27, 2005 12:45 PM


 
 Respond to this message   

(Login iris89)
Forum Owner

Born of a Virgin on December 25th:

December 27 2005, 12:46 PM 

Born of a Virgin on December 25th:
Horus, Sun God of Egypt
In the story regarding the sun god, the moon gives birth monthly and annually to the sun. In The Story of Religious Controversy, Joseph McCabe, a Catholic priest for many years, writes:

…Virginity in goddesses is a relative matter.

Whatever we make of the original myth…Isis seems to have been originally a virgin (or, perhaps, sexless) goddess, and in the later period of Egyptian religion she was again considered a virgin goddess, demanding very strict abstinence from her devotees. It is at this period, apparently, that the birthday of Horus was annually celebrated, about December 25th, in the temples. As both Macrobius and the Christian writer [of the "Paschal Chronicle"] say, a figure of Horus as a baby was laid in a manger, in a scenic reconstruction of a stable, and a statue of Isis was placed beside it. Horus was, in a sense, the Savior of mankind. He was their avenger against the powers of darkness; he was the light of the world. His birth-festival was a real Christmas before Christ.

The Chronicon Paschale, or Paschal Chronicle, is a compilation finalized in the 7th century CE that seeks to establish a Christian chronology from "creation" to the year 628 ce, focusing on the date of Easter. In establishing Easter, the Christian authors naturally discussed astronomy/astrology, since such is the basis of the celebration of Easter, a pre-Christian festival founded upon the vernal equinox, or spring, when the "sun of God" is resurrected in full from his winter death. The vernal equinox during the current Ages of Pisces has fallen in March, specifically beginning on March 21st, lasting three days, when the sun overcomes the darkness, and the days begin to become longer than the night. In the solar mythos, the sun god starts his growth towards "manhood," when he is the strongest, at the summer solstice. Hence, Easter is the resurrection of the sun. As does the ancient authority Macrobius (5th cent.), the Paschal Chronicle relates that the sun (Horus) was presented every year at winter solstice (c. 12/25), as a babe born in a manger.

Concerning the Paschal Chronicle, Charles Dupuis relates:

…the author of the Chronicle of Alexandria…expresses himself in the following words: "The Egyptians have consecrated up to this day the child-birth of a virgin and the nativity of her son, who is exposed in a 'crib' to the adoration of the people…"

Another important source who cites the Paschal Chronicle and mentions Isis's virginity is James Bonwick in Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought:

In an ancient Christian work, called the "Chronicle of Alexandria," occurs the following: "Watch how Egypt has consecrated the childbirth of a virgin, and the birth of her son, who was exposed in a crib to the adoration of her people…"

The author of Christian Mythology Unveiled cites the "most ancient chronicles of Alexandria, which "testify as follows":

"To this day, Egypt has consecrated the pregnancy of a virgin, and the nativity of her son, whom they annually present in a cradle, to the adoration of the people; and when king Ptolemy, three hundred and fifty years before our Christian era, demanded of the priests the significance of this religious ceremony, they told him it was a mystery."

CMU further states, "According to Eratosthenes [276-194 BCE], the celestial Virgin was supposed to be Isis, that is, the symbol of the returning year."

Interestingly, all sources cited herein relate a different translation of the Chronicle, which would indicate that they used the original Latin text and that it contained the word "virgin."

Regarding Isis's baby, Count Volney remarks:

"It is the sun which, under the name of Horus, was born, like your [Christian] God, at the winter solstice, in the arms of the celestial virgin, and who passed a childhood of obscurity, indigence, and want, answering to the season of cold and frost."

Regarding the astrotheological nature of the gospel story, including the virgin birth/immaculate conception, the famous Christian theologian and saint Albertus Magnus, or Albert the Great, (1193?-1280) admitted:

"We know that the sign of the celestial Virgin did come to the horizon at the moment where we have fixed the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ. All the mysteries of the incarnation of our Saviour Christ; and all the circumstances of his marvellous life, from his conception to his ascension, are to be traced out in the constellations, and are figured in the stars."

As Albert the Great acknowledged, the virgin-birth motif is astrotheological, referring to the hour of midnight, December 25th, when the constellation of Virgo rises on the horizon. The Assumption of the Virgin, celebrated in Catholicism on August 15th, represents the summer sun's brightness blotting out Virgo. Mary's Nativity, celebrated on September 8th, occurs when the constellation is visible again. Such is what these "Christian" motifs and holidays represent, as has obviously been known by the more erudite of the Catholic clergy. Hence, the virgin who will conceive and bring forth is Virgo, and her son is the sun.

Excerpted from Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled

 
 Respond to this message   
Sol Invictus
(Login iris89)
Forum Owner

Sol Invictus

December 28 2005, 11:27 AM 

The religion of Sol Invictus continued to be a cornerstone of the emperors until Theodosius I's decree on Feb 27, 390 that only Nicene Christianity was acceptable. Before his supposed conversion (some think Emperor Constantine never converted but that a Christian coup took advantage of his death), on his deathbed, even the young Constantine portrayed Sol Invictus on his official coinage. Constantine on Mar 7, 321 decreed SUNday (dies Solis) as the Roman day of rest [CJ3.12.2]:

On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for grain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.

Christianity apparently adopted some of the attributes of the Sol Invictus religion, as apparent in the first examples of Christian iconography, depicting Christ with solar attributes such as the sun-ray crown or, in a few instances, a solar chariot.

According to the New Catholic Encyclopedia of 1967, article on Constantine the Great: Sol Invictus had been adopted by the Church of Rome as evidenced by Christ as Apollo-Helios in a mausoleum discovered under St. Peter's Basilica in Vatican City and dated to 250 and from the article on Christmas: from the beginning of the third century "Sun of Justice" was used as a title of Christ.

The date for Christmas may also bear a relation to the sun worship. According to the scriptor Syrus, writing in the fourth century:

'It was a custom of the Pagans to celebrate on the same 25 December the birthday of the Sun, at which they kindled lights in token of festivity. In these solemnities and revelries the Christians also took part. Accordingly when the doctors of the Church perceived that the Christians had a leaning to this festival, they took counsel and resolved that the true Nativity should be solemnised on that day.'[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The emperor Aurelian introduced an official religion of Sol Invictus in AD 270, making the sun-god the premier divinity of the empire, and wearing his rayed crown himself (image, right). While not officially identified with Mithras, Aurelian's Sol borrowed many features from Mithraism, including the iconographical representation of the god as a beardless youth. Aurelian dedicated the Sol Invictus Temple on Dec 25, 274 in a festival called dies natalis Solis Invicti or birthday of the invincible Sun. It is conjectured to have been promoted by Aurelian as a means of linking this rebirth with the perpetual renewal of the Roman Empire. Also conjectured is that the Natalis Invicti was later renamed Christmas, for example: the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Christmas [1] states: "The well-known solar feast, however, of Natalis Invicti, celebrated on 25 December, has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date."[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 
 Respond to this message   

(Login iris89)
Forum Owner

Actual Reply to a Worshipper of the Moon God, 'Allah'

January 1 2006, 1:03 PM 

FIRST, You apparently did NOT read my first post carefully as I gave plenty of authoritive references for what I said as follows,
[quote][source - The Archeology of the Middle East]"[additional references - "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations" (Berta Segall, The Iconography of Cosmic Kingship, the Art Bulletin, vol.xxxviii, 1956, p.77).; Isaac Rabinowitz, Aramaic Inscriptions of the Fifth Century, JNES, XV, 1956, pp.1-9; Edward Linski, The Goddess Atirat in Ancient Arabia, in Babylon and in Ugarit: Her Relation to the Moon-god and the Sun-goddess, Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica, 3:101-9; H.J.Drivers, Iconography and Character of the Arab Goddess Allat, found in Études Preliminaries Aux Religions Orientales Dans L'Empire Roman, ed. Maarten J. Verseren, Leiden, Brill, 1978, pp.331-51); Richard Le Baron Bower Jr. and Frank P. Albright, Archaeological Discoveries in South Arabia, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1958, p.78ff; Ray Cleveland, An Ancient South Arabian Necropolis, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1965; Nelson Gleuck, Deities and Dolphins, New York, Farrar, Strauss and Giroux, 1965).; Another Aramaic Record of the North Arabian goddess Han'Llat, JNES, XVIII, 1959, pp.154-55.[/quote]

SECOND, Also, you should go read the following of which I am only posting the introduction,
[quote]Allah - the Moon God

The Archeology of The Middle East
The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters. [source - Yeshua Communications Network][/quote]
You can read all at:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm

THIRD, You overlook this source which has many links on the subject, but here I will only quote the introduction,
[quote]Hubal and Allah the Moon God?

Islam: Truth or Myth? start page

Introduction to basic facts of history:

Moon worship has been practiced in Arabia since 2000 BC. The crescent moon is the most common symbol of this pagan moon worship as far back as 2000 BC.
In Mecca, there was a god named Hubal who was Lord of the Kabah.
This Hubal was a moon god.
One Muslim apologist confessed that the idol of moon god Hubal was placed upon the roof of the Kaba about 400 years before Muhammad. This may in fact be the origin of why the crescent moon is on top of every minaret at the Kaba today and the central symbol of Islam atop of every mosque throughout the world:
About four hundred years before the birth of Muhammad one Amr bin Lahyo ... a descendant of Qahtan and king of Hijaz, had put an idol called Hubal on the roof of the Kaba. This was one of the chief deities of the Quraish before Islam. (Muhammad The Holy Prophet, Hafiz Ghulam Sarwar (Pakistan), p 18-19, Muslim)
The moon god was also referred to as "al-ilah". This is not a proper name of a single specific god, but a generic reference meaning "the god". Each local pagan Arab tribe would refer to their own local tribal pagan god as "al-ilah".
"al-ilah" was later shortened to Allah before Muhammad began promoting his new religion in 610 AD.
There is evidence that Hubal was referred to as "Allah".
When Muhammad came along, he dropped all references to the name "Hubal" but retained the generic "Allah".
Muhammad retained almost all the pagan rituals of the Arabs at the Kaba and redefined them in monotheistic terms.
Regardless of the specifics of the facts, it is clear that Islam is derived from paganism that once worshiped a moon-god.
Although Islam is today a monotheist religion, its roots are in paganism.[source - Brother Andrew][/quote]
You can read all at and go also to the links, go to:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

FOURTH, One expert of Islam, Starjade, has a lot to say on the celestian Moon god, one of the puppet gods of Satan the Devil and the false prophet at:

http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/chapterseven.htm

And,

http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/surahfoureighthytwo.html

And,

http://www.geocities.com/end_of_times/surapge1.html

FIFTH, Now here is something else you should read to see the proof of what I stated in my two articles which incidentally were NOT about the Moon god, a puppet celestial god of Satan the Devil, but about the only true God (YHWH) maker of heaven and earth, a point you obviously missed. But since you made the challenge, I am answering it with abundant evidence of the obvious. Now here is an introduction to another important article on the subject,
[quote] Was Allah The Moon God of Ancient Arab Pagan?
By Syed Kamran Mirza
Historical evidences, impartial logic, well versed references and all available circumstantial judgments can very well prove that—(a) Allah name of deity was pre-existed much before the arrival of Islam, (b) Pre-Islamic Pagan peoples worshipped Allah as their supreme deity (moon-god). Allah’s name existed in pre-Islamic Arab. In ancient Arab the Allah was considered to be the supreme God/deity (as Moon-God) and Arab Pagans worshipped Allah before Islam arrived.
Let us examine below some valid questions and answers :
Did the Pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times worship 360 gods? Yes
Did the pagans Arabs worship the sun, moon and the stars? Yes
Did the Arabs built temples to the Moon-god? Yes
Did different Arab tribes give the Moon-god different names/titles? Yes
What were some of the names/titles? Sin, Hubul, Ilumquh, Al-ilah.
Was the title “al-ilah” (the god) used as the Moon-god? Yes
Was the word “Allah” derived from “al-ilah?” Yes
Was the pagan “Allah” a high god in a pantheon of deities? Yes.
Was he worshipped at the Kabah? Yes.
Was Allah only one of many Meccan gods? Yes
Did they place a statue of Hubul on top of the Kabah? Yes.
At that time was Hubul considered the Moon-god? Yes.
Was the Kabah thus the “house of the Moon-god”? Yes.
Did the name “Allah” eventually replace that of Hubul as the name of the Moon god? Yes.
Did they call the Kabah the “house of Allah”? Yes.
Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.
Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”
Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.
Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.
What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”[source - Was Allah The Moon God of Ancient Arab Pagan?
By Syed Kamran Mirza ][/quote]
Now to read the complete article, go to:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm

SIXTH, Go read, "English - Allah Had No Son" by Jack T. Chick LLC, which is an interesting cartoon that reveals the truth about the Moon god, 'Allah,'. You can view this at:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0042/0042_01.asp

SEVENTH, And here is another item you should go read and also visit all of the links,
[quote] Archaeological photo gallery of the Arabian Moon-God
The names of the moon god in Arabia were Wadd, `Amm, Sin, Il Mukah, Hubal and Allah.
The crescent moon symbol of Islam is a remnant of ancient pagan moon worship.[/quote]
Now go to:

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-photos-moon-worship-archealolgy.htm

EIGHTH, Go read the following also,
[quote] Allah, the moon god of the Kaba:
Islam Truth or Myth? ^ | Brother Andrew
Posted on 12/18/2002 6:24:27 AM PST by robowombat
Allah, the moon god of the Kaba: [/quote]
Go read the entire article and visit links at:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/808560/posts

NINTH, Go read the following also,
[quote] Thoth
(Thot, Thout; Egyptian Djhowtey, Djehuti, Tehuti, Zehuti)
Egyptian moon god. Over time, he developed as a god of wisdom, and came to be associated with magic, music, medicine, astronomy, geometry, surveying, drawing and writing. Thoth was generally depicted in human form with the head of an ibis, wearing a crown consisting of a crescent moon topped by a moon disk. He could also be depicted wholly as an ibis or a baboon. Both the ibis and the baboon were sacred to him. His principal sanctuary was at Hermopolis (Khmunu) in the Nile delta region. [/quote]
Go read the entire article at,

http://sobek.colorado.edu/LAB/GODS/throth.html

TENTH, Go to,
[quote] Information Center [/quote]
Go look at the many links on the subject of the Moon god at,

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

ELEVENTH, Go read,
[quote] Thoth, God of the Moon, Magic and Writing...by Caroline Seawright [/quote]
Go look this article on the subject of the Moon god at,

http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/thoth.html

TWELTH, Go read,
[quote] ALLAH - The Moon God

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.[/quote]
Now look at this article at,

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/moon-god.html


LAST your uncalled for rant,
[quote] Iris89, what is your hard evidence that ALLAH was a pagan deity??? And what are your reliable sources and hard evidences that ALLAH is moon god???

Its only your conjecture, imagination and fantasy.

But if you still say and believe that ALLAH is pagan deity and moon god without providing any reliable sources and evidences, then for your information Millions of Arab Christians aren't really Christians but Moon-Worshippers and Pagans. [/quote]
First, what I said was neither my conjecture, imagination and/or fancy as clearly I gave my sources and abundance of evidence as follows,
[quote] FALSE GODS ARE NOTHING BUT FIGMENTS OF THE IMAGINATION

There exist many false gods which are figments of the imagination and some of these such as Molech, Ashtoreth, Baal, Dagon Merodach, Zeus, Hermes, Artemis, etc. are mentioned in the Bible. Let's look at a few instances, Leviticus 18:21, "And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD." (AV); Judges 2:13, "And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth." (AV); Judges 16:23, "Then the lords of the Philistines gathered them together for to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice: for they said, Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand." (AV); Jeremiah 50:2, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces." (AV); Acts 14:12, "And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker." (AV). Some of these gods exist until today, usually under new names.

The old middle eastern Moon god who has gone by many names is still well venerated. This is shown by "The Archeology of The Middle East" which states, "The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

Archaeologists have uncovered temples to the Moon-god throughout the Middle East. From the mountains of Turkey to the banks of the Nile, the most wide-spread religion of the ancient world was the worship of the Moon-god. In the first literate civilization, the Sumerians have left us thousands of clay tablets in which they described their religious beliefs. As demonstrated by Sjoberg and Hall, the ancient Sumerians worshipped a Moon-god who was called many different names. The most popular names were Nanna, Suen and Asimbabbar. His symbol was the crescent moon. Given the amount of artifacts concerning the worship of this Moon-god, it is clear that this was the dominant religion in Sumeria. The cult of the Moon-god was the most popular religion throughout ancient Mesopotamia. The Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Akkadians took the word Suen and transformed it into the word Sin as their favorite name for the Moon-god. As Prof. Potts pointed out, "Sin is a name essentially Sumerian in origin which had been borrowed by the Semites." [source - The Archeology of the Middle East]"[additional references - "South Arabia's stellar religion has always been dominated by the Moon-god in various variations" (Berta Segall, The Iconography of Cosmic Kingship, the Art Bulletin, vol.xxxviii, 1956, p.77).; Isaac Rabinowitz, Aramaic Inscriptions of the Fifth Century, JNES, XV, 1956, pp.1-9; Edward Linski, The Goddess Atirat in Ancient Arabia, in Babylon and in Ugarit: Her Relation to the Moon-god and the Sun-goddess, Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica, 3:101-9; H.J.Drivers, Iconography and Character of the Arab Goddess Allat, found in Études Preliminaries Aux Religions Orientales Dans L'Empire Roman, ed. Maarten J. Verseren, Leiden, Brill, 1978, pp.331-51); Richard Le Baron Bower Jr. and Frank P. Albright, Archaeological Discoveries in South Arabia, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1958, p.78ff; Ray Cleveland, An Ancient South Arabian Necropolis, Baltimore, John Hopkins University Press, 1965; Nelson Gleuck, Deities and Dolphins, New York, Farrar, Strauss and Giroux, 1965).; Another Aramaic Record of the North Arabian goddess Han'Llat, JNES, XVIII, 1959, pp.154-55.

All these mythical gods are not merely inferior to Almighty God (YHWH). In most cases they are nenexistent - strictly figments of human imagination. The Bible refers to these gods at Deuteronomy 4:28, " And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell." (AV). The Bible clearly teaches that God (YHWH) is the only true God (YHWH).[/quote]
As any open minded individual can clearly see, about 40% of what I said in my article was evidence in the form of authoritative sources, and if you are a student you should have recognized this fact.

Second, Your nasty and uncalled for rant,
[quote] But if you still say and believe that ALLAH is pagan deity and moon god without providing any reliable sources and evidences, then for your information Millions of Arab Christians aren't really Christians but Moon-Worshippers and Pagans.[/quote]
Clearly you are NOT being objective since as I previously pointed out, I had provided abundance of reliable sources and evidence as I am a stickler for backup for all that I say. I do NOT appreciate anyone implying that my articles are NOT sufficiently backed up when they are. With respect millions of Arab Christians being Moon god worshippers, you have failed to provide even one shred of backing for your statement; whereas, I provided an abundance of evidence for what I said.

Also, your statement shows a complete lack of knowledge on your part with respect to so called Christianity as you utterly failed to even mention which path of Christianity you were talking about; this is ridicules for someone who claims to be a student. Now let's look at the facts of which you appear to be completely ignorant of.
[quote] Most religions of the world take a two part single path as they have some good and some bad. However, so called Christianity did NOT follow in the mold of other religions such as the Hindus, Islam, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, etc. Instead, so called Christianity took two different paths. These two paths are as follows:

[1] In 325 AD the greater part of the so called Christian faith went apostate to when the good favor of a pagan emperor, a worshipper of the Unconquered Sun. And this branch of apostate Christians went on to commit many atrocities such as the rape of Goa, the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the burning of individuals at the stake for disagreeing with them including one Bruno for simply saying that the earth revolved around the sun; whereas, they said the sun revolved around the earth.

[2] A second and much smaller group of Christians that remained genuine Christians and did NOT go apostate, but followed in the footsteps of Christ their leader and savior. These did NOT commit any atrocities.

Thus, as can be readily seen, Christianity did not take the same path as most other religions that of having some good and some bad, but instead had a bad large group, and a much smaller good group. The colonial powers, however, brought the bad group to India, Pakistan, the New World [most of South America and North America], and many of the islands of the sea; and they went on committing atrocities in all of these places. This was because the apostate Christians were actually doing Satan the Devils' work per 2 Corinthians 4:4, "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." (Authorized King James Bible; AV); and John 5:19, "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." (AV).[source - Discourse on the Two Paths of So Called Christianity - The Genuine and the Counterfeit by Iris the Preacher 2005][/quote]
Read the entire article at,

http://preacher.proboards7.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=post&thread=1133366068&page=1 [It is the Fifth article down on this thread, but you might want to read the other articles also]

With regard to Dr. Robert Morey, I have read his book and found it to be only a compilation of evidence and data from other works and it is utter nonsense to try and belittle one of the greatest compilations of facts ever done in recent time, but of course there are silly self-serving sites trying to do this which should just be laughed at. As a student you should know better than that.

You also need to learn something with respect Jesus (Yeshua) so go to:

http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=religious&thread=1135862671&page=1 Documentary on our savior Jesus (Yeshua)

And you should go read,

http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=religious&thread=1135723580&page=1 On Mainstream Christianity

And you should read,

http://love.proboards9.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=religious&thread=1135992922&page=1 False Doctrine of Apostolic Succession Claimed,

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

 
 Respond to this message   
Current Topic - Excerpts from "The Islamic Invasion" by Dr. Robert Morey
  << Previous Topic | Next Topic >>Return to Index  
Find more forums on ChristianityCreate your own forum at Network54
 Copyright © 1999-2009 Network54. All rights reserved.   Terms of Use   Privacy Statement