any of you guys have pics of FWB 65 or FWB 80July 19 2009 at 9:04 AM
|Larry Pirrone (Login LARRYPIRRONE1)|
match pistols? where might someone find one and what do the go for? i have my
300s now and need a nice pistol.
maybe a different approach. what do you guys know
|July 19 2009, 8:34 PM |
Gaines Thomas Blackwell
Larry, this is a wonderful but slow forum. There have been discussions on the 65/80
|July 19 2009, 9:31 PM |
guns before....Try the search. They are not hard to find and go for $400 to 550 or about in the US. They are not my area so will not comment.
|July 19 2009, 9:39 PM |
Larry, what is there to say, the FWB 65 is the most honored single gun in the history of the sport, period! If you find one, just buy it, you won't be sorry.
If I could own only one air rifle, I'd do some waffling over what it would be...but if I could own only one air pistol, I would pick an FWB 65 without the slightest hesitation. It has it all: incredible accuracy, fantastic trigger, great sights, easy to cock, relatively high power, astonishing durability, fine handling. My only complaint is that they are rather heavy, but that's the name of the game with most springer match pistols.
Jim E often has 65's for sale, they do turn up on the classifieds, etc., and they are common as flies on German sale/auction sites if you want to go that direction.
The FWB 80 is generally similar to the 65. It came out in the late 1970's, has a revised trigger mechanism, a more square-cut trigger guard, and an interesting system of screw-on balance weights beneath the barrel.
I have two 65's that are different ages and vary in quite a few details, I'll try to take a few shots of them in the next few days.
thanks to you for that information
|July 19 2009, 9:54 PM |
i did search and did not find much. sounds like a great gun.
|July 19 2009, 10:13 PM |
This is a pic of one of my 65's wtih the sporter grip. I also have one with a target grip that has a palm shelf. These guns are a blast to shoot, and very accurate. Typical FWB build quality that will last for generations. The FWB 80 is a pure target gun and has a few more adjustments to the rear sight and trigger. If you go to the Feinwerkbau website you can download the instruction book for the FWB 65/80. Hope this helps a bit.. Price $300-600 depending on condition and who's selling it. If your not in a hurry you can find one in great shape at a good price.
link to FWB manuals
|This message has been edited by socalmatt on Jul 19, 2009 10:27 PM|
|July 20 2009, 6:52 PM |
they could never build them today at a price that would work in the market place.
Ah how about a FWB 65 with the Feinwerkbau Presentation Case
|July 20 2009, 7:20 PM |
Getting harder to find but worth the wiat.
A pair of 65's
|July 20 2009, 9:13 PM |
The 65 was first introduced in 1965. A revised version appeared about 1978, simultaneously with the then-new FWB model 80 match pistol. To some extent, the changes were to allow commonality of parts between the two models. Beeman called the revised gun the "Mark 1," or "Mark 2" for the short-barrelled version. Note, the "Mark" numbers were strictly Beeman marketing inventions--and confusingly, both apply to the LATER version of the gun. FWB literature makes no distinction for the revised frame, and notes the short-barrel model as "K" ("kurz") or "Junior."
This pair of guns illustrates some of the (all relatively minor) changes and optional features of the FWB 65's production run. The two are a long-barrelled, first version gun serial 65360; and a short-barreled, second version "Mark 2," serial 130449.
The older gun has a factory barrel sleeve, which adds weight and a nicely proportioned, tapered appearance. The sleeve is seldom seen on US imports, for some reason, though Beeman offered a clamp-on detachable barrel weight for each barrel length. The newer shorty gun is without a sleeve.
Note that the older gun has an adjustable walnut match grip, which were made in both left and right-hand versions, and in several sizes. The newer gun has a stippled walnut sporter grip; these were checkered instead of stippled on the earliest examples, and likewise offered in different sizes. The base grip in Europe was actually just simple molded black plastic, but most buyers seem to have upgraded as these are seldom seen.
The most noticeable difference between the two versions is the length of the grip tang--longer on the newer version, left in the photo.
The sights are also different, the later versions being shared with the model 80. The newer rear sight is much wider (better for formal paper-punching as an anti-cant reference), but I prefer the smaller early rear sight for all-round shooting (less likely to get snagged or damaged). On both sights, the sight notch width is varied by rotating the cammed rod in front of the blade; the earliest 65's had a simpler sight with interchangeable blades to get different notch widths.
The early front sight housing is rounded, and as you can see nicely mates with the weight sleeve diameter. The later model 80 one is much more angular, but uses the same interchangeable sight blades. The difference in barrel length--only about an inch and a half--makes a surprisingly large alteration in the pistol's balance and overall feel.
The 65 was originally designed to be used as either a recoilless match pistol, or a recoiling firearm trainer. To eliminate the recoilless feature, a simple piece of metal is screwed to the front of the upper receiver and overlaps the lower frame (both of mine are missing this bit unfortunately!). Along with this, the trigger mechanism can instantly be switched to the much heavier "firearm" mode by flipping the tumbler switch in front of the trigger, with no need to change other adjustments. The recoiling mode, interestingly, also requires taller sight blades.
Something to watch for in these guns is the age of the seals. The white breech seal in the older gun is due for replacement, while the blue one in the newer gun is the result of a recent rebuild. The little white pad below the breech seal is the snubber that pushes the trigger-block out of engagement when the breech is closed. The most critical replaceable part in all the FWB springer pistols, though, is the resilient bumper on the front of the piston. Generally all FWB springers are incredibly durabe, but when you see little white chunks in the barrel it's definitely time to stop shooting and go for a rebuild.
OK this is silly...but has any airgun ever looked cooler with its action open, than the 65? The cocking stroke is about 120 degrees and quite easy to manage, though some older shooters find it tough on wrists and elbows. I have found a good work-around is to hold the gun in my right hand with the palm facing up instead of sideways; then pull straight back on the cocking lever with an underhand grip.
For what it's worth, the most common variant of the 65 seen for sale here in the US has the late long-tang action, long barrel without sleeve, and match grips. What I see for sale on German sites tends toward the older short-tang action, with long sleeved barrel and sport grips. Neither of my guns is thus quite typical; the short barrel in particular is a bit rare.
Well here's one last look, the older gun in the first photo and the newer shorty below. The latter, upon which Dave Slade has performed his magic, is definitely one of my "babies"--absolutely the last air pistol I'd ever part with.
|This message has been edited by MDriskill on May 10, 2013 11:02 AM|
thank you for that very informative report.
|July 20 2009, 10:11 PM |
those are truely beautiful examples. i like the target grips. i read somewhere that the shorter barrell set some kind of competition record.
|July 21 2009, 1:20 PM |
Larry, Jim E may need to fill us in on some dates and details, but the late great Don Nygord was, I believe, the first to use a custom-made FWB 65 with short barrel in high-level competition. I think he won a world championship and did indeed set or tie the then-current world record.
Beeman highly touted the factory-made shorty version, the so-called "Mark 2," as a match gun, but FWB themselves simply called it the "Junior" and didn't give it much fanfare (the "Mark" numbers, again, were strictly a Beeman invention). By then FWB had the model 80, intended to be a more advanced paper-puncher, and marketed the 65 more as a cheaper beginner's pistol.
It's interesting to note that the 65 outlived both the model 80 (and the later model 90 with electronic trigger) in production, though.
I have a Model 90
|July 21 2009, 5:21 PM |
In lefty configuration and prefer it to the two 65's (one long, other short) I owned.
Some info on the late Don Nygord and his chopeed FWB 65
|July 21 2009, 7:55 PM |
In the early 1980s an American shooter, Don Nygord, found that for him shortening the barrel length of a standard FWB Model 65 greatly improved the balance and inertial envelope of the gun, and this reduction in length did not adversely effect velocity or accuracy. Mr. Nygord used his shortened version of the FWB 655 to win the World Championship at Santo Domingo in 1981. After his performance at this match, Feinewrkbau commenced a NASCAR-like effort (Win on Sunday .,.. Sell on Monday) for barrel cropping the FWB 65 and were quick to release their own version - the M 65 Mk II. In Germany this was merely called the FWB 65 Junior, but Dr. Beeman (the Feinwerkbau distributor and marketeer extraordinaire) promoted the shorted FWB 65 as the Mark II.
Don Nygord, passed way in December 2004.
So was barrel shortening the rage in match pistol shooting after Don Nygord success in 1981?
For openers the FWB Mk.II is very rare in Germany and generally limited being found on North american soil. The other manufactures continued to produce their match air pistols with the full length barrel because this created a more accurate sighting machine for shooters. Why? Simply, the greater the distance between the front and rear sight, the more precise the sight picture becomes. With great sight precision comes great match shooting results.
Today, some of the modern match air pistols come in shortened barrel versions (Junior or Mini models) but they generally attempt to maintain the "full size" space between the front and rear sights with clever manufacturing efforts. For more information go to www.pilkguns.com and look over their cornucopia of the worlds latest and greatest match air pistols.
Great info Mike
|July 21 2009, 9:21 PM |
While the 65 had the longest run ; I still like my 80 a little better.
Its in great shape and came in the cute case Jim showed in his pic above. Along with a bill of sale from ARH in 1979.
|July 22 2009, 6:46 PM |
It has always seemed to me that we Americans have a sort of "latest and greatest" buying philosophy, while Germans tend to be much more careful about small differences in prices and features.
In other words, had these pistols been US products--no doubt the 65 would have been dropped as soon as the 80 came out! But in Germany, the 65 survived, re-cast as the cheaper all-round pistol in the lineup. It in fact thrived in this role, ultimately staying in production until the late 1990's and thus out-living several generations of spring, CO2, and SSP-powered FWB successors.
I also thought it was strange that Beeman continued to market (and price) the 65 as a top-line match pistol, when it fact it was obsolete in that role, even according to the factory! But still, there's no denying it stayed at the top of the hill for a long time, and is one of the great classics of airgun history.
Your right there
|July 23 2009, 12:12 AM |
Look at the life span of a typical high tech product in the US.
Actually the match grip on my 80 fits my hand quite well and I shoot it slightly beter than the 65's I've shot. Hey I like my Walther CP2 and that's thouroghly obsolete as well.
65 vs. 80
|July 23 2009, 8:19 AM |
Al, one huge advantage of the 80 over the 65 is the ability to adjust the trigger blade position. Most people, myself included, find the 65's blade a bit too far to the rear.
The 80's ingenious weight system is also a very efficient way to optimize balance, compared to the all-or-nothing (i.e. sleeve or no sleeve) approach of the 65!
its your fault. you guys have been so convincing
|July 24 2009, 7:40 AM |
that i had to have one. should have it soon. paid way too much of course.
my first use of it will be for an iron sight pistol silhouette match in
the obsession begins.
(Premier Login Garvin2)
Larry probably more than any other air pistol
|July 24 2009, 8:01 PM |
the FWB65 (or 80) is the one you won't regret buying, as Mike D has said. Even if you move it on one day it's unlikely you'll be sorry to have owned it for the time you did. The quality of materials and workmanship, the accuracy, the ease of use, the pleasure of being able to see the pellet hit where you aim, the simplicity and ingenuity of the design, the long interval between services, put this pistol in a class all of its own.
There's been no mention so far on this thread of what you might call the "real" Mk1 FWB65: the first pattern of these pistols, which had several differences to later pistols including a short sprung rearsight with fixed leaf, a narrow blued steel trigger and a fixed element front sight. The very first ones had beautiful hand-checkered walnut non-adjustable grips. Later the checkering was replaced by stippling.
The Falke forum
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|This message has been edited by Garvin2 on Jul 24, 2009 8:02 PM|
Info on the early run 65's
|October 27 2010, 5:57 PM |
What would be the differences between the early model 65 and later runs.
I have an early model such as the one Garvin posted a pic of. I was thinking of selling but I can't find info on these early model 65's.
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