(Login Williamshuey) HyperScale Forums from IP address 173.75.177.170
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By MARK MAZZETTI and THOM SHANKER
Published: August 4, 2009
WASHINGTON A pair of nuclear-powered Russian attack submarines has been patrolling off the eastern seaboard of the United States in recent days, a rare mission that has raised concerns inside the Pentagon and intelligence agencies about a more assertive stance by the Russian military.
The episode has echoes of the cold war era, when the United States and the Soviet Union regularly parked submarines off each others coasts to steal military secrets, track the movements of their underwater fleets and be poised for war.
But the collapse of the Soviet Union all but eliminated the ability of the Russian Navy to operate far from home ports, making the current submarine patrols thousands of miles from Russia more surprising for military officials and defense policy experts.
I dont think theyve put two first-line nuclear subs off the U.S. coast in about 15 years, said Norman Polmar, a naval historian and submarine warfare expert.
The submarines are of the Akula class, a counterpart to the Los Angeles class attack subs of the United States Navy, and not one of the larger submarines that can launch intercontinental nuclear missiles.
According to Defense Department officials, one of the Russian submarines remained in international waters on Tuesday about 200 miles off the coast of the United States. The location of the second remained unclear. One senior official said the second submarine traveled south in recent days toward Cuba, while another senior official with access to reports on the surveillance mission said it had sailed away in a northerly direction.
The Pentagon and intelligence officials spoke anonymously to describe the effort to track the Russian submarines, which has not been publicly announced.
President Obama spoke by telephone with President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia on Tuesday, but it was not clear whether the subject of the submarines came up, although another source of friction between the two countries did. Mr. Medvedev called Mr. Obama to wish him a happy birthday and the White House said the president used the opportunity to urge Russia to work through diplomatic channels to resolve rising tensions with Georgia.
The submarine patrols come as Moscow tries to shake off the embarrassment of the latest failed test of the Bulava missile, a long-range weapon that was test fired from a submarine in the Arctic on July 15. The failed missile test was the sixth since 2005, and some experts see Russias assertiveness elsewhere as a gambit by the military to prove its continued relevance.
Its the military trying to demonstrate that they are still a player in Russian political and economic matters, Mr. Polmar said.
One of the submarines is the newer Akula II, officials said, which is quieter than the older variant and the most advanced in the Russian fleet. The Akula is capable of carrying torpedoes for attacking other submarines and surface vessels as well as missiles for striking targets on land and at sea.
Defense Department officials declined to speculate on which weapons might be aboard the two submarines.
While the submarines have not taken any provocative action beyond their presence outside territorial waters of the United States, officials expressed wariness over the Kremlins motivation for ordering such an unusual mission.
Anytime the Russian Navy does something so out of the ordinary it is cause for worry, said a senior Defense Department official who has been monitoring reports on the submarines activities.
The official said the Navy was able to track the submarines as they made their way through international waters off the American coastline. This can be done from aircraft, ships, underwater sensors or other submarines.
Weve known where they were, and were not concerned about our ability to track the subs, the official added. Were concerned just because they are there.
Once among the worlds most powerful forces, the Russian Navy now has very few ships regularly deployed on the open seas. Moscow has contributed warships to the international armada searching for Somali pirates. In addition, a flotilla of Russian warships participated in exercises with Venezuela last year.
Tom Booth (Login bookmark460) HyperScale Forums 66.53.120.99
Have a Nice Cruise.
August 5 2009, 2:44 AM
They and their brave new world have been neutered (thank goodness!) and they feel the need to flex an injuried muscle and shout out "Hey! We're still here. Over here. Over here!". Sad.
Are they paying their sailors now? With money? Another case of feeling for the people, hating the gov't. Same w/ the PRC, N. Korea and others.
some people haven't been paying attention to what's been happening in the last 10 years. Russia is fat with oil and natural gas money and the military is getting it's share. Yes, they are paying their sailors!
In case you haven't noticed, Russia is now Europe's major supplier for oil and natural gas and when that new pipeline they are working on is done they will be an even bigger source. People don't seem to realize that there has been a change in the "realpolitik" of Europe. Nato is pretty well a joke, Russia doesn't have to have tank army's any more, all they will have to do to bring Europe to heel is threaten to shut off the valves in a cold winter and you will see who is boss!
Stalin's ghost is probably sitting over Putin's chair laughing his a-- off!
Bill Shuey
This message has been edited by Williamshuey from IP address 173.75.177.170 on Aug 5, 2009 10:57 AM
Cezar from Cleveland (Login cezary) HyperScale Forums 206.180.164.162
Accident waiting to happen.
August 5 2009, 6:05 AM
Considering the age and condition of those boats, how long will it be till one hits the bottom again ?
But at least our boys have some live targets to chase.
Cezar.
Tom Booth (Login bookmark460) HyperScale Forums 67.150.141.100
Buff.
August 6 2009, 10:53 PM
Smirked at those too. Narcissist and wacko were the first words that came to mind. Looks good though for 60ish. But notice that the belt is up there pretty high. Hiding that gut that magically appears around 40 Vladimir are ya? I'm sure they're for local consumption (sod farmers and such) but what are these guys thinking? Kim Jong (smiling like a giddy 10 yr old girl meeting a Jonas Bros) having a treasured Kodak moment w/ Bubba. 'I'm a Dinner Jacket' w/ that big fake bumpkin smile, pretending he carried the 'election', trying to hug/kiss the head holy muckety muck and getting the big snub. A lot of these Third World types are just so unsophisticated and clueless. They all need to hire a Hollywood/Wash DC spin doctor/PR flack to show them how the wool is pulled here in the 21st century.
They could learn a thing or two about major league bs from that genius of bs, Paris Hilton.
Yeah we have our share of wacks here too in Congress. Guys saying they're going hiking on the Appalachian or playing footsie w/ an undercover in a men's room.
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