You're acting like a religious zealot without a clueJune 17 2012 at 12:48 AM
Mr. Sapien (Login Application11)
Response to If you knew a tenth of what you think you know
And it's not like a used car salesman. That's your knee-jerk reaction. The point is that science is a method. Something you are still unable to grasp.
You don't view or treat science like a method from what I have observed here so far, you talk about it as if it's your personal religion. Your "method" involves looking up to scientists as if they are priests and pastors, (where they become your Gods) and you can't question anything they claim because their ways are beyond your understanding. You are part of the "flock" and your role is to subject yourself without question because you must not question anything your pastors in lab-coats, tell you. Your version of "man of the cloth" - LoL
When you look at religion, you see a similar method taking place. The flock is not meant to question the claims of the religion itself or the priests and pastors, the flock has to subject itself and simply nod their heads to everything the leaders say because their understanding is above the flock. It's a sin to question the claims itself.
People that truly do view science as a method, don't have a problem with people questioning the method or the claims of anything within science, but do the complete opposite. People that turn science into a personal religion, have a huge problem with people questioning science and take it very personally. Just like when you encounter all the religious folks on the forums that hate it when people question their claims. They get annoyed at people like that because that is not how things work in their religion. (you have to nod, not question) In the same way, some people take scientific claims as religious doctrine and end up acting like religious fundamentalists.
You want to be able to come up with any ridiculous nonsense that you can imagine and pretend it's just as valid as any other idea. Which is the entire point of the scientific method. It eliminates this... stupidity of having to give everyone equal footing when they pretend to have great ideas. If you don't do the work you aren't able to publish and if you don't publish you aren't shit.
You don't seem to really comprehend what being skeptical or questioning things is actually about. You think that to question something involves coming up with ridiculous nonsense that you then think is just as valid as everything else. If you bothered to talk to skeptics or people that are not afraid to question what they are told, they will tell you that what you described here is quite ridiculous itself. If every idea is equal, then what is the actual point of questioning anything to begin with? There wouldn't be a point to discovering anything because it wouldn't matter to you if your claims are true or not. When you actually run into people that don't care if what they believe in is true or not, they never question anything to begin with. You can't reject any idea if every other idea is equal.
What if you heard some knocking noises in your home at night and you were convinced that it's some ghost that is haunting you. If I questioned your claims and told you that it probably was not a ghost -- does that then mean that the idea that it was a Leprechaun is on equal footing? Do folks that reject invisible pink unicorns, then run off and believe in sock eating gremlins?
No. What you find is people that truly question what that is, don't make up nonsense and then give it equal footing, but they continue to investigate and use their brains even further. Your brain isn't a one-time use only like a condom that you throw away afterwords. It should be used continuously. Although with some people, it seems you just can't impregnate them with a clue.
People that are truly afraid to question and use their brains, do have that condom-type mentality and for you to think like that tells me that you have little confidence in your own thinking abilities, on top of your lack of understanding of what science, religion and skepticism is. Because to think that questioning something, means you apply the "anything goes" mentality is something that is gripped with fear and insecurity at the prospect of thinking for yourself. It's the same fear Muslims and Christians are gripped with when questioning their own beliefs. And the biggest factor in why it's difficult to get these people to question anything is because there is security in those beliefs and without them, they imagine that the sky will be falling. The same mentality you have with your "the sky is falling" approach when mainstream views are put under the microscope. Same religious mindset.
So before you decide to respond, you'd best go learn what a 'theory' is and what the rest of the words you're using mean. Because you're sorely fucked in the head on most of them.
That reminds me of when I used to be against outsourcing during that outsourcing bandwagon that was going on at the start of the last decade. I would always meet people that claimed that outsourcing was creating jobs. When I questioned if outsourcing was creating jobs and then used the simplistic logic to show that it would result in job losses, I too was told to go learn about economics because I had no idea what I was talking about. And usually followed by someone saying something stupid like "if you don't believe in outsourcing, then don't shop at walmart" -- It was so "simple" to them. What's really funny -- today, you rarely meet people that claim that shipping all the jobs to China was a great idea.
And that's what we have here. I understand what a theory is and that is why I'm not afraid to question any theory. If on the other hand, I treated science like a religion and theories like religious doctrine, I would have the exact same attitude as you display here.
You keep bringing up climate change. One of the most complicated things we know of. And, again, you keep ranting about how people who accept global warming... or more accurately, climate change, can't even explain it in their own words. It's simple. The climate is changing. It's changing by warming.
This doomsday cult of 'global warming' had to change its "name" to 'climate change' after their "prophecies" didn't come to pass and things ended up blowing up in their faces. Originally, mainstream climatologists used to claim that human settlements caused an increase in rainfall. (rain follows the plow theory) This was mainstream science and the scientists were convinced that they had facts to back them up, and no doubt if you were around at that time, you would be a believer that plows cause rainfall over settlements. And, how dare I question your pastors.
Then, they came back with the theory of global cooling. These nutcases were claiming that the earth was headed into an ice age, where the whole earth would be a giant snowball in space and most life on earth would be frozen to death. The science was also settled back then too and it passed peer review and there was no point in questioning it. How did that work out? Turns out, they were all wrong and they had no idea how the climate actually worked. I still remember Dr. David Suzuki screaming about global cooling on his TV programs when I was a kid (I was lucky, because I came around during the end of this belief) telling every Canadian that they would be under 30 feet of ice. To a kid, that's a horrifying thing to tell them. Kids can't wait to grow up and do adult things. Every kid imagines what they'll do when they're an adult. Imagine how horrifying it is to tell a kid that when they grow up, instead of being a grownup, they're going to be preserved in a sheet of ice. LoL
And then overnight, this fruitcake Suzuki flip-flopped on his beliefs, abandons his global cooling "prophecies" on his weekly TV show and then started making TV shows about how the earth was instead, facing death from too much HEAT! Your tomb is not going to be a sheet of ice -- you're going to die from warmth now! And this time, he and his global warming buddies got their facts straight!
The global warming crowd came along and thought the world forgot about their old global cooling claims and how it was a proven science. But then they made all kinds of claims that they screwed up on after they changed their minds. The temperatures didn't rise like they originally claimed they would, and they ran into cooling periods, the icecaps didn't disappear or melt at the rate they claimed it should, some of them even falsified data to support their beliefs, nor did reefs vanish and the coastal cities are not under water. And now, some scientists are claiming that we may hit a mini ice-age instead of warming.
That's why you're seeing many of the former alarmists now starting to scratch their heads and are having second thoughts about their doomsday beliefs.
And so, these clowns changed their names/ideas to "climate change" since they have no real idea how the climate actually works and changes, and since their predictions have been wrong over and over again, it sounds better if you say "climate change" instead of "global cooling/warming" -- because the climate is always changing and now you can jump up and down and claim that you were right that it is changing! It's like making a prediction about the playoffs and instead of claiming what team will win the cup, you claim that different teams will play each other after each round. (we'll call it "team change") And then when different teams play each other in the next round, you claim that your prediction is true!
If the earth gets warmer or then goes into a cooler phase, you then claim that you predicted that! Because you predicted change and change happened! All that this doomsday cult did was change its label from "global warming" to "climate change" but it's still the same group. (remember how atheists were angry at creationists when they changed their name to 'intelligent design') Some of the members of this cult are quite bizarre. One scientist from NASA made a claim that it could be a possible scenario that Aliens from space might detect that the planet is warming up and and show up to destroy mankind to save the earth. And yet, you think these people are brilliant super thinkers. LoL
To me, I look at that and laugh and see desperation and stupidity rather than some genius with super human thinking abilities. That's BS that kids in Elementary school can come up with. There has been also other bizarre things. Just like some have claimed that it's even racist to not believe in global warming. And then, Al Gore is going to save the earth when you put money into his bank account? What a joke.
I figured that if you are still thinking about becoming a member of this doomsday cult, you should be aware of some of the history and be ready to open up your wallet.
It's warming because of gases that are being pumped into the atmosphere by mankind. These gases form a sort of "blanket" that reflects the sun's rays away from the earth and also keep those that do penetrate inside. The icecaps are melting. Glaciers are melting. This is the evidence we see around us.
Almost any kind of gas will form a "blanket" but it's not as simple as that. If you end up having a "blanket" over the earth, the end result would either end up cooling the earth or having no actual effect in the long term -- not warming it up like fear mongers panic over. You're looking at this explanation through through 1-dimensional rose colored glasses. And they worked this out backwards as well. They didn't come up with this conclusion after performing experiments or basing it off of actual evidence, they did it to conform their own beliefs.
If you bounce suns rays off the blanket, you're already reducing heat going into the earth and for your formula to work, you have to factor that into the equation. Your theory only works and make sense if the energy "trapped" inside the earth is greater than the energy not being able to get into the earth itself. But there is no real comparison between the difference of "trapped" heat VS lost heat. What difference does it actually create? Where does the "trapped" heat convert to? What is the temp of the matter that it goes to? What % of that blanket is then, man-made compared to natural on top of that? You've only looked at one factor and started screaming that the frying pan is falling and going to burn all of us.
The second problem is that the heat doesn't actually get trapped as it's impossible to actually trap heat. In order to heat something, you need a constant input of energy. You might enjoy a hot drink from your thermos for example, but the thermos itself is loosing heat every second. Any heat that the earth manages to "trap" will dissipate from various factors. Especially since rays bouncing off into space creates a reduction in heat and that trapped heat will get "absorbed" by the reduction already taking place. Say that you have an aquarium and you have "trapped" water. You reduce the amount of water going into the aquarium but you have no idea how much water is now going into it. On top of that, the aquarium is also leaking. If you have no idea how much water is going into the aquarium and how much is leaking out, you have no idea if it's going to overflow or drain out. You would have to be a moron to run out into the street and start screaming that your house is going to be flooded.
And it's impossible to even calculate and make a comparison between the two since the climate is so complex and there are two many factors to input at one given time. That's why they've never performed experiments to test this theory out.
The blanket theory only works if you make a bunch of wild assumptions inside a closed system with constant variables. This is why so many of the computer models have turned out to be wrong. But then we see examples of "blanket" theory when a volcano erupts for example. When volcano's blow, they should be warming the earth but instead, you find that they actually cause a cooling effect. The reason that the temp drops is because the cloud bounces rays off into space. Any heat inside the system gets absorbed as a result of that. The "trapped" heat inside the system is lesser than the heat not getting in. Clouds also act as a "blanket" as well and that is yet another case where the temp on a cloudy day is lower than on a sunny day. And, that is something that we've seen from from satellites where the energy "leaving" is equivalent to the energy incoming. It varies from year to year but that variation is really a way of "balancing" itself out.
In fact, when you look at the climate history of earth, it is always changing. It never stays the same. Earth goes through periods where things warm up and then start to cool down. To panic over climate change is to panic that you're sweating. One day, the doomsday cult is panicking that it's going to be too cold, the next day they are panicking because it's going to be too warm, and now, they are panicking over any change.
Look at other planets in our own solar system as well. They too go through periods where they warm up and then cool down. At any given moment, a planet is the process of heating or cooling down. Mars and a few other planets have been warming up recently along side earth. It's logical to assume that what's causing other planets to warm up is the same process that is happening here. Has Mars even started its industrial revolution yet? Is Mars heating up because they have a CO2 blanket around the planet? After Mars heats up, will it never be able to cool down again? Will heat be trapped forever on Mars?
This is just fear mongering and naive people buy into it. It's meant for you to reach into your pocket and hand your money over to people flying around in their own private jets, as they convinced you that they are going to save the planet from global warming and angry aliens that hate CO2. More than anything else, it's often people's gullibility that is on the rise when it comes to nonsense like this.