1) Is Christ the ‘Mighty God’ in Isaiah 9:6? NEGATIVE!
http://iglesia-ni-cristo-refuting-beliefs.blogspot.com/2005/06/is-christ-mighty-god-in-isaiah-96.html
The general summary of this article which looks to be a copy of some Jewish publication (of which Jews deny that Jesus Christ is the messiah and God of course) is that the words “Mighty God” does not actually mean “Mighty God”. Rav is suggesting I guess that the following fourteen…..FOURTEEN Bible translations got it wrong?
That is some faith there Rav. Do you also believe in aliens as well?
Here are the facts.
All valid Bible translations have Mighty God.
NIV = Mighty God
NASB = Mighty God
Message = Strong God (Still God)
Amplified = Mighty God
NLT = Mighty God
KJV = The Mighty God
ESV = Mighty God
CEV = Mighty God
NKJV = Mighty God
ASV = Mighty God
Youngs = Mighty God
Darby = Mighty God
New Life = Powerful God
Holman = Mighty God
The reason why all valid Bible translations translate the Hebrew words as Might God, is because that is the only and correct way to translate universally accepted Hebrew. It has been done so for thousands of years. There is no discussion whether Mighty God is the proper translation, every Bible that has ever been made and all Jewish cannon translations translate as Mighty God.
For unto us a child [03206] yeled
is born, [03205] yalad
unto us a son [01121] ben
is given: [05414] nathan
and the government [04951] misrah
shall be upon his shoulder: [07926] sh@kem
and his name [08034] shem
shall be called [07121] qara'
Wonderful, [06382] pele'
Counsellor, [03289] ya`ats
The mighty [01368] gibbowr
God, [0410] 'el
The everlasting [05703] `ad
Father, [01] 'ab
The Prince [08269] sar
of Peace. [07965] shalowm
What is happening here for Rav is the logical fallacy of explaining away the fact. Its fact, historically and scripturally that the correct translation of Isaiah 9:6 EL is God. There is no argument on this. So since Rav has a closed mind and is unwilling to accept the truth and fact of God, that the Son is “The Mighty God” he must create a fanciful and false response of any sort, just to have some sort of answer to continue in denial, no matter how silly or illogical it is.
For centuries people lived under the false elusions that the earth was flat. And even after irrefutable factual proof that the Earth was an ellipse, many people for hundreds of more years still would not change their closed and stubborn minds.
Too sad. A self centered ego is a tough thing to change for some.
2) Christ is not God for having the name "Immanuel" in Mt. 1:23
http://iglesia-ni-cristo-refuting-beliefs.blogspot.com/2005/07/christ-is-not-god-for-having-name.html
The basic summary of this article is that even though the Bible and Matthew clearly call Jesus Christ Immanuel, and clearly the name Immanuel means God With Us, somehow being called God with Us really doesn’t mean that Jesus Christ was God with us.
Of course this attempt is entirely illogical and ignorant. No one is called president, if they are in fact not a president. Otherwise it would be a lie. No one is given a name or title if the facts of definition are not the case as given to the subject directed. Otherwise if Jesus Christ was not really God with us, which is the definition of the name, then the Bible and Matthew would be lying.
Giving the name Immanuel to Jesus Christ absolutely means that Christ himself is God, who was with us. This fact of Jesus Christ is also clearly stated in John 1:!4 and 1Tim 3:16.
John 1:14-18
14 The Word became FLESH and made his dwelling among US. We have SEEN his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
And of course who is the Word (that became flesh) that THEY SAW!
John 117 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
Jesus Christ, God, the One and Only.
1 Timothy 3:16 (NKJV)
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
Even in open denial the Arians have to come to terms with this truth when they state.
“Christ’s being called Immanuel only signifies that God is with us through the Lord Jesus Christ. God is in Christ and through Him, we have been reconciled to God”
Of course this idea is just an imagination, an idea made up with no Biblical proof or substantiation. The proof in fact is that the Bible clearly teaches that the Word, that God became Flesh. This flesh that God became was the flesh of Jesus Christ.
There is just no way to fuzzy logic around this Biblical fact. The fact is that since the name Immanuel means “God with Us” and that name is the name given to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, by DEFINITION, is God with us. When someone is called something, they are that something. If I am called a basketball player, I play basketball. If I do not play basketball, then that statement is a lie.
The statement and fact that Jesus Christ is Immanuel, God physically with us, manifested in the flesh, is not a lie, it is the truth of the Bible. If you deny this fact, you deny Jesus Christ, God, the Bible and your faith is worthless and failed and your eternity will be in hell. That is Biblical truth.
3)Who was God referring to in the pronouns “us,” “our,” “ourselves” in the verse, “Let us make people in our image, to be like ourselves…?” (Gen. 1:26) NEGATIVE!
http://www.network54.com/Forum/84590/message/1084697257/Is+Christ+God-...NEGATIVE%21+This+is+a+thorough+study+against+Christ%27s+deity-Godhead...
Rav: In the following verses, God did not mention who were with Him. Trinitarians like Jason concluded to be the Son and the Holy Spirit which is totally absurd and in question:
Genesis 3:22 "Then God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil"
Genesis 11:7 "Come, let Us go down there and confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech."
The fact is God is speaking here. When God says “has become like one of Us” he is referring to himself, God, that we were made in the image of. We were not made in the image of anything else like angels, cherubim’s or other entities. No we are made in the image of God and God alone. And obviously if you can read, that God is plural.
One cannot say that God is only the Father and singular, by reading these verses. Of course these verses do not say what the rest of the components of God are, but only that God is plural and there are other components. In the New Testament we find out exactly who the other persons and components of God are.
1 John 5:7-8 KJV/NKJV
7 For there are THREE that bear record in heaven, the Father, the WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE are ONE. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
The truth is simple and clear. God is plural, not singular and that plurality consists of the Father, Son and Spirit.
4)Heb. 1:8 "God is thy throne..." or Jason's rendition "Psalm 45:6-7
6 Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever;"
Refuted here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/84590/message/1124980849/Heb.+1-8+%26quot%3BGod+is+thy+throne...%26quot%3B
The argument that is made in this post is absolutely self-defeating.
“Proponents of Christ's alleged deity argue that in this verse, God the Father is calling His Son God. But if this were true, then there would be two Gods-a conclusion that contradicts biblical verses which teach that there is only one true God.”
Nice try but no, God calling the Son God does not make two Gods. Like all people who fail to read the Bible, God, is one. Jesus Christ many times claims that he is “One” with the Father. The Bible never teaches that there is more than one God. These verses that are consistent throughout all valid translations confirm that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he is God.
Jesus Christ is God, manifested in the flesh as proven earlier. Jesus Christ is both God and Man, at the same time, otherwise known as the hypostatic union. For open minded non-delusional readers please read www.dk777.com for a full study on these facts.
5-6) Christ is not God in John 1:1. Read here:
http://iglesia-ni-cristo-refuting-beliefs.blogspot.com/2005/09/christ-is-not-god-in-john-11.html
This article spends a lot of time trying to prove that the Word is not Jesus Christ.
It’s all a bunch of blabberspeak because they never address the central issue that I have made and that no one ever has responded to or refuted.
John states that the Word, being distinctly different than God “The Word was with God” is God. So then if one has the mental capacity to read on a few more verses one can know who John is writing about besides understanding who the main subject of the Book of John is..
John 1:14-18
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
The Word obviously became flesh. John physically saw his glory and called this person “the One and Only”. That this “one and only person came from the Father and that this person was full of grace and truth.
If not Jesus, who did John physically see? Who else then came from the Father, besides Jesus Christ? But wait, grace and truth, who does grace and truth come through? Yes, JESUS CHRIST.
John then goes on to say, that No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, or the Word, who is at the Father’s side has made him known.
Who is at the fathers side?
Yes, Jesus Christ.
There is no possible way of ignoring this truth and Biblical fact. You will notice that in all of these copied responses John 1:14-18 is never addressed. Let the reader know why, it proves the Arian completely wrong. That is why they have to ignore it.
7) Christ is not God in I John 5:7 ; John 14:7-11
Refuted here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=84590&messageid=1084697257
John 12:44-45
44Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me.
Rav: Just by looking at the verse, there are two beings whom we should believe in---the sender and the one being sent. The sender is greater than the one being sent. Christ declared: "for the Father is greater than I(John 14:28).. The sender is God and the one being sent is Christ. Christ power came from the sender. Without God--the sender, the one sent could do nothing. Christ said:"I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (John 5:30)We should therefore believe in the one who sent Christ as the true God. When we see Christ, we do not literally see God who is spirit in nature but we see the works of God that were entrusted with Christ---holy and true...
Jason: There is only one being. You cannot prove that there are two beings. In fact when Jesus Christ makes the multiple claims that he is “ONE” with God, Jesus Christ is claiming to be the same “Being” as God. If you doubt this go buy a dictionary and look up the definition of one. The sender is only greater in authority than the one being sent. That is because the one who actually came down from heaven on his own accord, in agreement with the sender, chose willingly to become a servant and to be submissive to the sender.
Jesus Christ being fully God always had and never lost the ability to be God. Being under submission and being under authority does not mean you loose your abilities.
8)Is Christ God because He is the Savior?...NEGATIVE...
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=84590&messageid=1087026576
FINALLY, HERE'S THE GIST:
One God, the Father vs. the Trinity
http://mypersonalthesis.blogspot.com/2006/02/one-god-father-vs-trinity.html
Excerpts:
"Mysteries" spawned by the Trinitarian Doctrine
1) “Can we fully understand that there are three Persons in God? We cannot fully undertand that there are three Persons in God, for it is a mystery, called the mystery of the Blesssed Trinity.”(Grau, Ma. Veritas, D.S.P. The Creed. Pasay City, Philippines: Daughters of Saint Paul, n. d.)
Jason: Huh? There is no mystery, the Bible is clear. Only those in a cult who are brain washed are confused by their anti-christ leaders. I can fully understand the Trinity and the dual-nature of Jesus Christ. I have explained it all for those who are lacking knowledge in my study. Now to be honest, for those who have not made a study of the Trinity it can be confusing at first.
2) “…according to the teaching of the Church, the dogma of the Blessed Trinity…is a mystery in the fullest sense: that is to say, it cannot be proved by reason, … if any, it cannot be proved to be possible.” (Blount, C. F., Rev.. The Blessed Trinity. London: Catholic Truth Society, n. d.)
Jason: Ok well this is obviously not a quote in the Bible. Quoting someone who does not contain the spiritual or intellectual capacity to understand the Trinity does not mean that applies to everyone. Just because I cannot figure out a complex calculus equation does not mean that someone else, who has the capacity to understand, can’t as well. This is an ignorant quote that means and proves nothing.
Here Rav you can quote me. “Jason – The Trinity is the amazing understanding of the plurality of our one true God. As communicated to us through the inerrant and infallible Word of God, God’s clear message to us who he is comprised of the Father, Son and Holy Sprit. This is most clearly communicated in 1 John 5:7-8. Everyone who reads my study will get a crystal clear understanding of who God is and how the Bible from Genesis to Revelation expresses the true nature of God and Jesus Christ.”
3) “All the truths of our faith are mysteries which we cannot fully understand. The Blessed Trinity is the deepest of all mysteries.” (Killgallon, James, Rev., et a. Life in Christ. Nihil Obstat: Rev. Msgr. James K.Lafferty, Censor Librorum; Imprimatur: Most Reverend Frank H.Greteman, D. D. Bishop of Sioux City, Illinois, USA:ACTA Publications, 1976)
Jason: Well I do not know who these people are but they must not have ever read this verse:
Romans 16:25-26
25Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him— 27to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.
All mysteries have been revealed, primarily the true nature of who Jesus Christ is.
4) "The doctrine of the Trinity can, accordingly, be treated more as an intellectual puzzle for the initiated than as a truth of vital importance for all Christians." (Bracken, Joseph A., S.J. What are They Saying About the Trinity. New York, USA: Paulist Press, 1979.)
Jason: This is the greatest lie. If a person does not believe in the Trinity, and rejects the deity of Jesus Christ, they are not saved and going to hell. Jesus Christ even says so. On MUST believe the claims of Jesus Christ or they will die in their sins.
John 8:21
21 Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come." This made the Jews ask, "Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, 'Where I go, you cannot come'?" But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
John 10:28-30
28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."
John 10:33
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
This is what causes me most concern with the INC. Everyone who rejects the true nature and deity of Jesus Christ, if made aware of the truth, will be lost in hell.
5) "... it is not possible for our human minds to comprehend the mystery of the Trinity. Human language, fashioned to speak of the visible realities of our experience, is strained to speak of this sublime truth about God. Much that is said in these pages concerning the Trinity may seem paradoxical and puzzling. What has been said with great care by saints and by councils of the Church to guard this central mystery of faith may seem at first entirely opaque ..." (Lawler, Ronald, O.F.M., Cap., et aI., ed. The Teaching Of Christ. Nihil Obstat: Joseph J. Keppler, Censor Librorum; Imprimatur: John B. Mc Dowell, D.D. Ph. D., Vicar General of Pittsburg. Indiana, USA: Our Sunday Visitor, Inc., 1991.
Jason: Is it not possible for a delusional, closed, controlled, and brainwashed mind to understand which is why I am really wasting my time with Rav. But hopefully for a person who has an open mind, who is not fully brain washed and mind controlled can understand. Your eternal life and salvation depends on it.
Everyone who has read my study or has read any of my posts here has been informed of the truth. The Trinity is not that difficult to comprehend. False religions and cults have been formed because their false leaders have not been able to understand the Trinity. That is due to their eyes not being open in the first place.
The time is now for you to repent and believe in the true Jesus Christ.
Jason Stevens