Today at Easter the subject come up after dinner, has man been on the moon? I was the only one that seriously doubted it. But by the time it come up, all the young kids had left, because I have a couple nephews that don't believe it either.
A couple three weeks ago in a cafe I eat at, I was at the counter, and I got into the same discussion with the two waitresses......one is 15 and the other is 23, and they couldn't believe it either. The 15 year old girl told me something to the effect that some day they would probably be able to call our generation "Flat earthers"! Needless to say I was highly amused and told her they would more than likely be able to. But I had already been gathering this about the young people. Several years ago in the Movie Gallery in Pratt one of the young employs told me he didn't "by it".
My two nephews that doubt it went through public high school after the Holdeman education experience. I wonder if this is a truth seeping into the public schools now?
So what's your view?
Brent
This message has been edited by BrentU on Mar 23, 2008 9:03 PM
If I remember right, the moon is 92,000 miles away into the lifeless cold void. I can't get on a mountain without getting in another spirit about how lifeless and inaccessible outer space feels.
Brent interesting... Why don't you buy into that? I sit here and think.. ok.. so someone does buy into the man on the moon bit...and consider how many people don't buy into Jesus being raised from the dead...
There is far too much evidence to support the fact that we landed men on the moon than not. To suggest that we haven't is only speculation. You will always have the doubters with anything.
Why I know it happened is because I stayed up late that night on July 16,1969 listening to the radio transmissions between the lunar module Eagle and Mission Control in Houston. And I heard the famous words by Neil Armstrong.
You could never broadcast a hoax around the world and get away with it.
"Why I know it happened is because I stayed up late that night on July 16,1969 listening to the radio transmissions between the lunar module Eagle and Mission Control in Houston. And I heard the famous words by Neil Armstrong.
You could never broadcast a hoax around the world and get away with it."
GMman,
I seen the event on television at my mom's brother's house. Yep it happened right before my eyes. So according to your post I should believe it more than you.
Yeah Stan, I know you believe it, but can I not believe it? I don't think either one of us have very much proof. But at any rate it's not a religion to me. So I won't be damaged or embittered if someone convinces me.
And Stan, I wouldn't call it such a wild rumor. A lot of intelligent people don't buy it, or have doubts about it, which is really my main position. I haven't said they didn't put a man on the moon.
I've never browsed the internet looking for websites that claim a hoax, but just out of curiosity I just did and came up with this page. I don't claim anything,one way or another, this is just something to look at. But I believe that the capacity to deceive, and the reasons for it are endless. I think we swallow lies every day. I just view everything with skepticism.
911 was an inside job perpetuated by our government to justify a war.
The holocaust never happened.
The government is hiding little green aliens captured from UFO’s.
The earth consists of a thin shell and is hollow inside.
Intelligence is one thing. The reason these crazy ideas are known is that the people perpetuating them ARE intelligent. Otherwise they would never get to first base. But we also know there are a lot of intelligent people out there who have a distorted view of reality.
I am frustrated at attempts to disprove or rewrite history. In this age of information overkill, we have tons of good credible information on the web, but also tons of misinformation. A person can find what seems to be evidence supporting about anything they want to believe.
Intelligence won’t get you to first base in a quest for truth unless you spend some effort in a dispassionate search for the actual facts. Over 6 landings and probably 12 to 15 people who actually walked on the moon. We have rock samples, and video of 1/6th gravity projectiles. Anyone with High School knowledge of science and physics could confirm it.
How could you possibly cover up an incredible hoax for that many years? If true, we should be hearing death bed confessions by now from some of the thousands of astronauts, engineers, scientists, and managers who were responsible for this incredible hoax!
Thanks for including that site, VS. It’s a perfect example of what I was talking about.
"A person can find what seems to be evidence supporting about anything they want to believe."
Stan, this is true for what you believe too. But I've never went to the Internet to find quick evidence and support for what I believe. But rather I've come the long way around through experience, that usually takes time, or sought things out in books, or just plain thought about things.
I don't remember this part of the televised apparent moon landing, but they say the flag is flapping in the wind. In your field of faith {science} they say the wind has weight, and I believe it because I have seen what the wind can do. Even the Bible talks about the "weight of the wind". But if the astronauts can float around on the moon, why ain't the wind floating? If there is no gravity, there wouldn't be no wind, or at least no wind with weight in it. So how could the wind flap a flag? How could a wind blow a man across the air he was floating in?
But Stan I believe in Pure science and I believe in Pure religion. Are we going to say like the Christians say about flesh, that there are two kinds - 100% divine and 100% natural? Is there a natural wind and a celestial wind? But I could accept celestial wind if it didn't perform like natural wind.
Does anyone know that song by R E M that has the lyric in it, "they put a man on the moon"? If I remember right the singer and the rest of the lyrics wasn't exactly showing favor of that concept.
Brent, I don’t remember the flag waving, but a flag would wave for quite awhile after it was disturbed just like a pendulum would. It should wave longer in an environment free of air because still air would dampen the motion. Gravity on the moon is approximately 1/6th that of the earth, so that would provide the pendulum effect. The only thing to dampen the motion and eventually cause it to stop would be the friction in the cloth itself. It makes perfect sense they would film it soon after planting it.
I have borrowed all the DVD’s about the moon landing I could at the library, and there are boring hours and hours of footage shown without commentary that never made it to the media. Conversations between moon and earth are recorded about the most mundane of technical details. NASA would never have been so open with all this footage or shot hours and hours of boring stuff the public would probably never ask to see if it was a hoax.
My point about finding evidence supporting anything you want to believe is this: There are ways to figure out which of two sides is more credible. One is not forced to finally resort to relativism in truth. Tools such as logic, math, the scientific method, will guide a person away from the fabrication and towards reality.
I looked up the lyrics you are referring to and I can’t make any sense out of what he is trying to say. I found out the song was about Andy Kaufman, who liked doing magic tricks. I found a few sites devoted to discussing what the meaning of the song was, but no one addresses the meaning of the moon part of the lyrics.
Brent, I viewed the video. The flag is standing straight out like a stiff piece of cloth under 1/6th gravity would. It is not waving, and stands still soon as soon as it is pushed into the lunar soil.
This is a very long web site and would take awhile to go through it and rebut all the claims. The videos are so small and grainy it is hard to see what they are describing most of the time. Some of the supposed shadow anomalies looked like perspective to me.
I did notice one excuse they used was that powerful telescopes can't seem to find the rover and other trash left on the moon. I am quite sure the resolution of even the most powerful telescopes is not that good. Google earth has recently taken satellite pictures of earth which could show a rover, but I can't think of any reason for NASA to spend the money to take pictures that detailed of the lunar surface. Unless it would be to dispel a few crazy theories about hoaxes!
<<Some of the Apollo video shows the American flag fluttering. How can the flag flutter when there is no wind on the airless Moon?
This I find to be one of the more ridiculous observations. It is readily apparent that all the video showing a fluttering flag is one in which an astronaut is grasping the flagpole. He is obviously twisting or jostling the pole, which is making the flag move. In fact, in some video the motion of the flag is unlike anything we would see on Earth. In an atmosphere the motion of the flag would quickly dampen out due to air resistance. In some of the Apollo video we see the twisting motion of the pole resulting in a violent flapping motion in the flag with little dampening effect.
I've heard many hoax advocates claim that some of the Apollo photos show a fluttering flag. (How one can see a flag flutter in a still photograph is a mystery to me!) I can only guess that ripples and wrinkles in the flags are being perceived as wave motion. The flags were attached vertically at the pole and horizontally from a rod across the top. On some flights the astronauts did not fully extend the horizontal rod, so the flags had ripples in them. There is much video footage in which these rippled flags can be seen and, in all cases, they are motionless. >>
Yep! Man on the moon is a hoax like WW11 and the Jews being in gas chambers. A unitversity in CA teaches that that WW11 being killed by the Nazi is a hoax. calledoutPTL
This message has been edited by erv123 on Mar 24, 2008 4:39 PM
"I'm going to have to think about this a bit. President Clinton lied to us... so maybe Brent is on to something..??"
Hank, I'm not going to let even a good friend keep me from my questions and doubt.
Stan, you've answered some questions about the flag that satisfies me. Can you deal with the extreme differences between cold and heat on the moon and how the astronauts would have dealt with that. The way I understand it, in the shadows it's like 270 below zero, and in the sun light it's 270 degrees above, or something like that, I didn't look it up. I'm writing from memory about all of this.
Stan, another thing I would like you to look into is, the young and artists and artist types and prophet types are kind of a developing trend of those questioning things like the moon landing. Two Thanksgiving ago at my parents place, I mention I thought the kids being born today had a technical spirit in them. Well everybody come down on me like I had said some terrible forbidden thing. It was one of the rare times I wanted to lash out at my family, but I clammed up and didn't push it. I suppose they didn't want to believe their children could have that spirit in them. But I wasn't even thinking it was a spirit that would send the young generation to hell. Everything in its place and time, you know. It was just something I had been observing and am still observing. My Holdeman brother's son works for me and he just 17, but he knows his cell phone backwards. I can't figure it out forwards. His parents just bought a brand new computer a couple months ago and he's setting my book work up on it. He got into a program I couldn't figure out. And mind you, the Holdeman children today weren't raised with this kind of technology though it was deep in the world when they were born. When I was born in 1959 this computer business wasn't even scratching the surface yet, or maybe a tiny little bit. So though the Holdemaan children aren't raise with it, the spirit of it finds them anyway. But Stan, why I'm going into this, remember Galileo? Our tradition and lies and spirit may not be working anymore, their time may be running out, and the new spirits of the world are seeing right through it, or at least questioning it. Like I mentioned to Hank the other day, we're going to have to stay on the cutting edge of the world where Christ worked or the new world's people may call us "Flat earthers".
Now Stan, I won't consider myself a Flat earther if it turns out I'm wrong. Because I've just showed you I'm open to this and can receive across the board on this, and that I've also brought some hard things to this table already, which only helps to purify what is correct if indeed I am wrong. My wrong was hot enough to help get more truth on the table. And I can live with that if it turns out I'm wrong. That's why I said I wouldn't be damaged and embittered. I have no agenda in the matter, except what my doubt may give appearance to that. Though I may be wrong, I think I'm justified in thinking I've messed with something people just want to take for granted, because I sense I've stirred some passion in you.
By the way Stan, I figured the flag flap out on my own. I didn't know what the flag controversy was about until it dawned on me that it was all about the weight of the wind and gravity.
The first moon landing was acute competition between Russian and USA. If we faked it, the Russians would have been all over that like ducks on a June bug.
"The first moon landing was acute competition between Russian and USA. If we faked it, the Russians would have been all over that like ducks on a June bug."
Scott,
Spies do a lot of damage before they get caught. And the most clever may still be out there having a 40 / 50 year career.
What the media don't tell us, dies out quickly unless there an intense grass root movement to get it out. And when the media sees the grass root movement is spilling to much information, they always seem able to wrestle the information from the movement, and present it how they want it, and the grass root movement dies out that way.
Scott, I'll be honest with you, my main and really only problem with the moon landing is deep outer space don't seem accessible to me. I look at it like the tower of Babel. God lets you come so far and then all the doors shut.
Regarding your question about the heat, the site I referenced above explains that also. I'll paste an excerpt below in case you can't bring the site up.
I applaud your being skeptical and not accepting everything on face value. The world needs more of that. The world also needs more scientific education, because I think a lot of these questions would not be raised if people understood the principles involved, and had the confidence to look into the science.
If your High School education was like mine, training in the science and physics department was almost non-existant. Have you read about how other countries are starting to over take us in these departments? Instead of hiring our own, American technical companies often hire foreign scientists now. The space program and soviet threat in the 60's inspired us to become the most advanced country on earth. But lately, people seem to be more interested in what Brittney Spears is doing that what the latest exciting scientific discoveries are. That is going to have to change if we want to maintain our edge in this world.
I would like to add to the arguement below that being in space on the moon and being in space while repairing the space station is really the exact same conditions. The space shuttle astronuats just got through installing a robot on the exterior of the space station.
<<Hoaxter believers question: How could the astronauts survive in the heat of the Moon's day? Objects that are heated cannot be cooled by space.
Answer: This is true, to a point, however spacesuits can radiate heat. All objects above absolute zero radiate heat; therefore some of the heat energy received from the Sun is radiated back into space as infrared rays. Also, much of the Sun's radiant energy can be reflected away. The astronaut's spacesuits were white because this color reflects the most radiation, thereby minimizing the amount absorbed. Finally, the spacesuits were equipped with a cooling system that utilized water as a medium to carry away excess heat.
The cooling system consisted of a cooling garment worn by the astronaut, a heat exchanger, and a porous plate sublimator. Water was circulated through tubes in the cooling garment where it absorbed heat from the astronaut’s body and then carried it to the heat exchanger in the backpack. As water passed through the heat exchanger, heat was transferred to a layer of ice on the surface of the porous plate sublimator causing the ice to sublimate and the resulting gas carried away the unwanted heat. The ice was replaced by continually seeping a small amount of water through holes in the metal plate of the sublimator. When the water was exposed to the vacuum of space, the sudden drop in pressure caused it to immediately freeze onto the plate’s surface.>>
I'll say one thing about you, you always back up your beliefs and do your research. Once again you gave me something on the heat problem that makes sense. I'm not a convert yet, because this thing has a spiritual side to it with me. But I'm not scared to read or consider an opposing view. One thing I can't stand is claims not backed up, and then silence to boot.
If this thread dies, I may revive it in the day to come as I consider the thing some more.
Brent.. it's nice to have someone to research and answer your questions/questioning instead of saying.. go search it out yourself.... and.. yes this is a bit of a dig... which I should probably repent of and be nice.
Yeah Lark, I see you're still in stalemate. That's a term of the past, don't drag me back to places I've come through. I made that clear back in the boondocks that that term was only good for spiritual things that each and every one of us had to prove for ourselves. So go search it out yourself so you don't pull up things you should have known by now, and don't be a silly woman with me tonight.
Brent.. lol.. ok.. I'm being a silly woman tonight. Someone was saying that the physical represents the spiritual...(something like that).. Was that you?
Get it straight Lark, you want your physical problems solved, deal with your spiritual problems first. Are you going to give me a religious twist to this?
Brent.. I was finding this interesting tonight that you actually are admiting that you may be wrong about something. You asked questions and someone else answered them and you accepted that and believed what was said. This actually amazed me that you were doing this.. even though it was about the physical realm and not the spiritual realm.
"Brent.. I was finding this interesting tonight that you actually are admiting that you may be wrong about something. You asked questions and someone else answered them and you accepted that and believed what was said. This actually amazed me that you were doing this.. even though it was about the physical realm and not the spiritual realm."
Lark,
You're so presumptuous. I give a quarter inch, or receive something, and you come at me to take me down, to see if you can find a weak spot in me to build on, to weaken me, to by chance bring me into your belief, to humble me in a religious way.
I'm not above reproach. But if you want to find an everyday fault with me above the much larger ideas and beliefs I write on, I can only say its because you don't understand them, which reveals you in not a good place. Our everyday faults aren't what brings us down in the initial steps of each new leg of the journey or growing cycle.
There Lark, I've given you another big spiritual concept. Go build on that instead of trying to wallow out a hole in a weak place in me.
Brent boy, You don't have to right on everything all the time on either physical or spiritual. smile. AT times you have amazed me with your spiritual insight that I agreed with. Other times I haven't. But that doesn't change anything. It is okay to disagree sometimes. And sometimes neither person is right. Just keep searching for truth whether it is spiritual or physical. Don't let a little humor get you into a spiritual battle. Just recognize it for what it is and go along with it. That way neither one will have to forgive anyone.calledoutPTL
To give a quarter inch or to recieve something, is not a weakness Brent. Not having ability to do that would be weakness. So instead of wallowing out a weakness in you, she may have been noticing something in you that is a positive?
***Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, ***
Ah, imagine that...here I thought all Brent was asking was "Did it really happen that way?"
Just a inquisitive mind wanting to know what others thought about an American man being on the moon...can it be?
I would like to comment on the legitimacy of the lunar landing. However I don't know how to do so on this thread without revealing sedition in me so I shall refrain.
BrentU
<Two Thanksgiving ago at my parents place, I mention I thought the kids being born today had a technical spirit in them. Well everybody come down on me like I had said some terrible forbidden thing. It was one of the rare times I wanted to lash out at my family, but I clammed up and didn't push it. I suppose they didn't want to believe their children could have that spirit in them. But I wasn't even thinking it was a spirit that would send the young generation to hell. Everything in its place and time, you know. It was just something I had been observing and am still observing. My Holdeman brother's son works for me and he just 17, but he knows his cell phone backwards. I can't figure it out forwards. His parents just bought a brand new computer a couple months ago and he's setting my book work up on it. He got into a program I couldn't figure out. And mind you, the Holdeman children today weren't raised with this kind of technology though it was deep in the world when they were born. When I was born in 1959 this computer business wasn't even scratching the surface yet, or maybe a tiny little bit. So though the Holdemaan children aren't raise with it, the spirit of it finds them anyway. But Stan, why I'm going into this, remember Galileo? Our tradition and lies and spirit may not be working anymore, their time may be running out, and the new spirits of the world are seeing right through it, or at least questioning it. Like I mentioned to Hank the other day, we're going to have to stay on the cutting edge of the world where Christ worked or the new world's people may call us "Flat earthers". >
I have to say that I think you are on to something here. today I was talking about somethings like this with a friend while I was at the store and I said when I think of the difference between the world that my grandparents were born into and what changes have been made in my life time and I have to say my grandparents saw a whole world turn over. There have been a lot of changes in my life time but I have to wonder if they were nearly as life changing as those in my grandparents lives. Then this guy walked past us and said to me, I grew up with rotary phone. I don't think he really believed my when I told him we have working rotary phones in our house and mow the telephone office yard to pay our phone bill. I know, I know that sounds far fetched but it really is true. we have 2 working rotary phones, the originals from when we moved here 28 1/2 yrs ago. and we have paid our local phone service for 2 lines by mowing the office yard for nearly 10 yrs now. When we moved here, we asked for a private line, Of course that also meant that we had 10 phone numbers that rang at our house. Of course when we went to school we had to do all our math without a calculator and computers took up whole rooms, not a small spot on your desk. Just give my cell phone to one of the boys, I may never figure it out, about the time I get it so I can actually use it, it is obsolete and I have to start over with a new one.
LL wrote: There have been a lot of changes in my life time but I have to wonder if they were nearly as life changing as those in my grandparents lives. Reminds of a statement I make at times. My dad from horse/buggy days to jets, (man on the moon LOL) kersosene lights to electricity to satellite communication,wiping out dreaded diseases, and the list goes on.
What I've seen is technical advancements on techical. The only break through I've seen was the polio vaccine. calledoutPTL
Brent.. hmmmm.. about your 6:22 a.m. post.. I meant my 10:12 post in a good way. My 9:06 post was not in a good way. I ask your forgiveness for my attitude towards you on my 9:06 post.
"Brent.. hmmmm.. about your 6:22 a.m. post.. I meant my 10:12 post in a good way. My 9:06 post was not in a good way. I ask your forgiveness for my attitude towards you on my 9:06 post."
Lark,
That's why I come down on you, I picked up on the spirit instantly. Lark I'm not bragging, I'm really not, because I got so many persistent things keeping me down in life, but my senses have been exercised and you people's attitudes come out loud and clear in your posts to me. More times than not I just let it go, because I would look like a totally rag if I called out every spirit. But Lark, no problem, I hold nothing against you.
Now I want to talk to your mother a little bit. Concerning her 9:12 AM, if showing my view or defending myself against unthought out replies is what she calls always being "right", I don't know what to say to her. Some days I don't have a smidgen of confidence or faith, and image the worse errors in me. But I come on here and read the rigamarole some people write to me, and I just let the spirit take over. I think this is what Calledout should consider. But I thank your mother that she thinks I have some "spiritual insights", because I have faith it's what I've added to my "talents".
"Just give my cell phone to one of the boys, I may never figure it out, about the time I get it so I can actually use it, it is obsolete and I have to start over with a new one."
Locklady,
That's what's so frustrating, that's been my identical experience. This technology is moving along so fast that if you don't have a knack for it, you can't hardly survive.
"Ah, imagine that...here I thought all Brent was asking was "Did it really happen that way?"
Just a inquisitive mind wanting to know what others thought about an American man being on the moon...can it be?"
You know Grace, you just about hit it on the money. I didn't feel like doing nothing that night, and it was way to early to go to bed, and I thought of my day's conversation with my family, and I said, I'll just get on Cog and pick a fight!!!! Just kidding.
But VS going to have to lock this thread up, it's just about got out of hand!
"To give a quarter inch or to receive something, is not a weakness Brent. Not having ability to do that would be weakness. So instead of wallowing out a weakness in you, she may have been noticing something in you that is a positive?"
Xep, I understand where you're coming from, but on the other hand I'm not going to give a fraction of a quarter inch to things I see inconsistencies and hypocrisy in. The weakness would be to give in to that. I think so often this is the case, and it's done in the name of getting along. That ain't going to work forever.
Not much access to computer time this week for me; but got to reply here. Brent, I was thinking the same as Xep here about your strengths. ANd then you come and make it even stronger with the following quote. You will never let compliments swell your head.
You said: "... but on the other hand I'm not going to give a fraction of a quarter inch to things I see inconsistencies and hypocrisy in."
Just to add... you are somewhere in your 40s and so you dealt with the government of the H church 20-25 years ago. And I bet you even said back then "I'm not going to give a fraction of an inch..." So I understand why you are not in good standing today with them. (by good standing , I mean on their membership rolls.) You were a strong man back then (maybe in the wrong areas) but your strengths or your talents are still with you... just you said you added faith to them.
That's what (God) Jesus did for Peter who had an out-of control temper, to Paul who was used to exactly following the letter of the law, to Matthew & Zachaius who knew how to force people pay their bills... and for David, who had an eye for good looking woman and knew how to organize a lively dance party.
Brent wrote:. But I come on here and read the rigamarole some people write to me, and I just let the spirit take over. I think this is what Calledout should consider.
Brent, what I meant is that sometimes you just should let it go more then you do. I don't respond to evrything I disagree with not do I intend do. smile calledoutPTL
This has been an interesting thread. I haven't had much time to read on here lately as it seems like all the tax rebate checks have been coming out and people have been getting car work done that has been put off for a long time.
Let me tell you folks of an instance that happened back in 1991. We had just moved to central Kansas and were setting up business in Florence, KS. We went to the local bank to open up our business accounts and on the way there I was told that the banker was Dean Armstrong, brother to Neil Armstrong who was the first man on the moon. We met this man Dean Armstrong and started all the paperwork. While we were filling out papers, I turned to this man and casually asked him, "I hear you have a brother that's been out of this world?" He just looked at me and kinda grinned this funny smile, a really odd one. I figured he didn't want to talk about it. Probably tired of always being upstaged by that famous brother. Nothing more was said.
A few years later I had the opportunity to work on Dean Armstrong's van. Seems he was now retired from banking and has a place down in Florida where he seems to go quite often. Probably has front row seats for shuttle launches. Has Florida plates on the van. When he's home he likes to spend alot of time at the local country club bar. I have always wondered if I could get him talking after a few (lot) of drinks, if I could get him to talk about his brother and if he REALLY did get onto the moon... There was always something about that 'grin' he gave me back in 1991 that made me wonder if he knew something more than the rest of us in these United States. Maybe if Steve Thiessen would bring some of that Anglican communion wine to Kansas and we could go over to his house and visit for awhile and sip on that Holy Fruit Juice, maybe, just maybe, we could get him talking and find out the REAL story.
GM, I remember that night on July 20, 1969 when we all watched the moonwalk. We sat glued to our TV sets and watch history unfold before us. One thing I wonder about today, those astronauts talked with President Richard M Nixon like it was a almost normal conversation. Now wait a minute, the moon is how many hundreds of thousands of miles away? Those men were talking and responding with just a few seconds of delay in time. It should have taken quite a while for the radio waves to get from the moon to earth and vica versa. I've always wondered.
Very interesting, Ksmech. Now that would be something to check out, how fast radio waves travel in a second. I'm sure someone here knows. Did Neil A. ever live in Ks?
1969 was a primitive world compared to today. It was more simple and basic in machinery - something it seems impossible to break out or go beyond its natural environment. It was mostly machinery that acted in response to its nature. But the technology we have today, especially the kind in computers and cell phones, seems able to transcend its own environment.
I really don't believe the story of the moon landing.
The moon is 239,000 miles from earth. At 185,000 miles per second, it takes radio waves 1.28 seconds to traverse one way. The two way transmission delay would double that, and sometimes there can be a very slight delay if it is routed through booster stations. I'm going to guess about a 3 second gap in conversation.
>>>But the technology we have today, especially the kind in computers and cell phones, seems able to transcend its own environment.<<<
OK, the moon hoax thing is interesting but you've really got my attention with this one, Brent. This seems to be a common idea, in one form or another, these days. Just wondering what YOU mean by those words. DOn't mean to derail the thread, I'm just an avid collector of thoughts on modern technology. (I think men went, BTW)
I assume a person like you has probably read Philip K. Dick. I've read some or parts of some of his books. "The Divine Invasion" made me sit up, but I don't think I even finished that book. But I haven't read Philip Dick for a few years now. I still have all of his books though. But Gene, Philip Dick being who he was and all, seem to make a way in his science fiction writing for things to be possible outside our world. I really don't have anything in mind at the moment other than the spiritual side of his writings, and of course the science fiction that involves technology. But your question sparked memory of his writings.
I believe there are only two things that can transcend out natural world - spirituality and technology. I think spirituality is the real thing and technology is a shadow. If they wanted to go to the moon, I'd be more inclined to believe it today with the technology we have. I can almost believe technology can transcend its environment. The shadow can do a lot of things if I'm right about the shadow. The shadow copies the spirit. I know the spirit can transcend this world, which makes me wonder why the agnostics have faith in something yet harder to transcend this world, or why they have turned it around putting the shadow first, and then on top of that, even denying the spirit.
Don't ask me how technology can transcend this world, because I don't know. I just have a hunch it can, and maybe already has by going to the moon.
But I think somewhere in scriptures it alludes to the fact that we're not going to go beyond our boundaries, speaking of outer space, among some other things. I tried to find that passage but can't find it.
Brent, it's not the greatest movie but an interesting story. Basically they use computer graphics and photo editing to create an ongoing news story about a war. Kind of along the lines of faking the moon landing. You might find it interesting.
Good guess, Brent, but I've only read one of his stories.-"Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" which was the inspiration for the movie "Bladerunner". Dick believes tech can transcend in all ways including AI, which should really be called Artificial Conciousness or Artificial Self-Awareness, but then it wouldn't sound so possible I suppose. I don't think tech will ever transcend in that way, but that's a whole 'nother thread. Anyway, interesting thoughts. Thanks.
Speaking of related movies the first one that popped into my mind was "Capricorn One" about a staged trip to Mars that goes awry when the re-entry vehicle (empty, of course) burns up on re-entry. The "crew" realizes they are "dead" and must make a break for it and run for their lives and the chase is on.... Am I the only one who ever saw this one like way back in the forgotten (mercifully) decade of the '70s?
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