I was thinking about boundaries this morning.......just a simple thought to begin with......but it was how I burn when I don't have the right law to get out of one yet {a boundary}. But if I let an illegal boundary sear me, the sting of burning turns to pleasure and becomes a fetish. There is a religious fetish I'm referring to.

But is it alright to stay in the boundaries you're put in? Not if the laws change, which they will with experience and study.

Brent

I was thinking about boundaries this morning.......just a simple thought to begin with......but it was how I burn when I don't have the right law to get out of one yet {a boundary}. But if I let an illegal boundary sear me, the sting of burning turns to pleasure and becomes a fetish. There is a religious fetish I'm referring to.

But is it alright to stay in the boundaries you're put in? Not if the laws change, which they will with experience and study.

Brent


Brent, funny you should mention this subject today. I am having an issue with a neighbor, I want to put up a wood fence, but he wants to "nit pick" desiring me to put in a vinyl one. of course he doesn't want to pay anything so the cost is all on me if I want to et a building permit for the project. Vinyl is junk in my situation because of the little people with hammers, and climbing desires, whereas wood is more "bullet proof". So if I set the wood even one inch on his side he will tear it down. (which is his right since the property on the other side of the boundary is his)


Anyway So I got a quote from a surveyor to get the corner and the line set. The deed states where the boundary is, and there is simply no argument with the line if the fence is properly set completely on my property.

The argument I had issue with in the H had to do with the "deed" for they promised to use the bible as the deed to make the lines, So I would pray, and read the bible and get direction from that deed description, but after they "got me" to join, they desired to move the ancient landmarks of the bible to fit their "way" which cannot be proven by scripture, not to mention the ministerial authority which is actually provably unscriptural and sinfully wrong. In effect they wanted my property and used the force of threat, duress and coercion to take it. So are they not thieves. I simply cannot see how a chrisitan fruit that has eternal value can come out of a tree that is sinful in it's authority. Perhaps someone can help me see how threats, duress and coercion can produce Godly fruit?


But here is thing on boundaries and honor, if you allow people to "take" from your spiritual inheritance, do you not deserve to live with that knowledge and the fruit the knowledge produces? And how is the loss of spiritual property do to stolen boundaries, how is that not opression and eternal death?

Many years ago the neighbor told everyone that my property was his, but I read the deed, and knew it was mine. SO I hired a surveyor, and had the line set. Of course the land was mine, and not arguable, but I didn't be mean to him, I just let the stakes sit there so he could see them. Once he got the message he dropped the thing. But I have found the H people willing to use treachery and deception to make the land the bible gives me, to make it theirs.


Now qwerty may not like the term but esau was called a fornicator because he gave up his inheritance, not because he was having premarital sex.



Should not the righteous man hold fast the boundaries of honesty, and never let them go? And should we not let the chips fall where they may when evil men walk on us?



So let us learn the truth, and let us walk in it.

Fred,

I always like a story in a answer, so your story was interesting. The story gives you a picture to work with.

So your neighbors the Holdemans were bickering and you were both reading the same document to solve the problem. As you showed, the boundaries can be established. But how do you keep both parties from making raids across the borders?

I have my ideas how to remedy this. But as I see it both parties - the Holdemans and the exholdemans are making raid across the border. The reason it appears I fall on the side of the Holdemans is they have a recognized government. The wild card always falls to the hand of ordained authority.

Fred, this is what none of exholdemans on this site have been able to overcome. This is the picture I want to see dealt with.

Brent

So your neighbors the Holdemans were bickering and you were both reading the same document to solve the problem. As you showed, the boundaries can be established. But how do you keep both parties from making raids across the borders?


Brent raids across the borders are okay if they are trespasses, for that is forgivable, but to steal land is a whole "nother" thing, and to maim and murder is detestable.



I have my ideas how to remedy this. But as I see it both parties - the Holdemans and the exholdemans are making raid across the border. The reason it appears I fall on the side of the Holdemans is they have a recognized government. The wild card always falls to the hand of ordained authority.


Well Brent, are you not looking at the situation through fogged up glasses?

It appears to me you are making the distinction of the corporate government ordained institution of the CGCM as having authority over man, but truth is clearly on the side of man having authority over the corporation. This is so easy to prove legally as to to be a moot point, for man has a right to act on his own authority without prejudice. For the H to have a moral claim they must produce a fully disclosed, and documented contract and in it it must have an escape clause that is not for a lifetime, because a lifetime contract is legally slavery, and slavery is contrary to our system of government.

Any time you sign a contract of indenture there must be a provision for escape or an open end that either may terminate upon notice.



But actually the man has authority over a corporation for it's authority arises from the permission or "license" of the people. The sovereign or the 'people" choose to be subject or not depending on his will, or choice not the will or choice of his creation the corporation. If the corporation can make a man subject, he must do so either by contract, or by judicial restraint for legal misconduct, (such as theft) after a judgment in trial.

One noticeable aspect of the color of law however:

I have been a buyer in many real estate deals, one time on the purchase I had to agree to a boundary adjustment, where everything on the other side of the fence went to the adjacent owner, and this in an unusual thing about real estate for the last guy standing is the usual winner, one can wait until the closing on the other side of the fence and put in a "flag" and that flag must be resolved or the title insurance will fail to be issued.

Anyhow, with the h, either I have the authority over my body, or the h does. It simply cannot be both, for that is confusion. God gave my body to either me or to them, and it's subjection belongs to one or the other.

So if the H wants me subject they must "prove" they have the right to force me to submit. But lying, and having unwitnessed tribunals where lies are purported as truths and denied later because they are not willing to be accountable, is simply not going to work.

"Brent raids across the borders are okay if they are trespasses, for that is forgivable, but to steal land is a whole "nother" thing, and to maim and murder is detestable."


Fred, I thought you said you could hired a surveyor to establish the border. This really made me sit up and look, because I thought, there it is, the borders can be established but the raids go on.

Fred, I never got to the rest of your post. I'm on a dead line this morning and I got to fly. I'll look at your post again this evening.

Brent

This is a little side story on my experience with boundaries. When we first moved to WA I wrote a contract on a house on 2 acres, and I stipulated that they owner needed to identify the boundaries. (I did not know that the fence was in the wrong place and only the neighboring property owner was aware of it)

The realtor, the two property owners and I met at the line and started to search for the iron pegs. The fellow who knew that the fence was in the wrong place searched in the area he well knew there was no peg, but did as though it should be there. The two property owners got into an argument... I said I was leaving, and they should call me when they figured things out. Don't know what all transpired, but later that evening the realtor called me and said they found the peg... 3 feet on the neighbors property, showing what the neighboring property owner knew all along.

It is my opinion that CGCM as a conference, points to iron pegs (boundaries) that by now, they really know by scripture are not there, but are having a hard time owning up to it. Brent, you have said that you respect "governments"; but you also have said that when inconsistencies are evident, such claims are not solid or legal. H has too many inconsistencies, and if they wish to be a biblical government, they need to line their boundaries up with scripture.


Psalm 98:9 p; "Before the LORD; for he cometh to judge the earth: with righteousness shall he judge the world, and the people with EQUITY..."

Fred, I thought you said you could hired a surveyor to establish the border. This really made me sit up and look, because I thought, there it is, the borders can be established but the raids go on.



Brent in the physical, a border may easily be established by proper survey, and the reading of the legal description. by the raids I mean I may go on the next guys property to 'fix the fence" if he gets mad, I'll apologize.

In the spiritual, we make mistakes: honest ones, the preachers may well do that too, and forgiveness is one of the greatest doctrines in christianity, so it is applicable if somebody does some something wrong.

I am in a heated deal right now, I went in 3 ways with two of my sons on 30 acres, to get to it an easement was established many years ago but long forgotten by the people whose land it crosses. Now we want to put in a mile long driveway that baciscly cuts his property off of 65 feet. I called him up and told him what I am up to and he got pretty mean to me. We hung up and he cooled off, and I called him back a couple of hours later. Either he is going to talk to me, or we will 'do it" our way anyway, I simply do not care if a man thinks I am stealing simply because he beleives something that is not true. (I have no rigth to cross his land)


But I will go all the way I can with him before taking my own way. but one way or the other we have to put the road in. Our easement runs right over the top of several infrastructure improvements that may have expensive ramifications if I touch. He made a major blunder putting them where he did. But before I touch them I want his permission, or I will send him a certified letter telling him my plans and asking him to contact in a time frame me if those aren't okay. His failure to contact me will be admissible in court if he later decides to "sue" for who knows what.


Now, the h leadership did me dirty, in that they "trumped up' accusations against me and then called me a liar behind my back when I told others of what they did, so I decided to never go in there again without a witness of my choosing. I have way better things to do that to beg a liar to tell the truth, it is way easier to just prove the truth by witnesses. Only the h disciplines by dark practice and not by open proceedings, so they don't know how to discipline by just tribunal. so they had to destroy me, or change, for I was calling for the boundaries to be scriptural and scriptural simply does not fit their discipline plan they use the evil dark arts of the bewitchment talked about in .

Ga 3:1* O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


The fact of the matter the rules of the conference held by the "somewhat in conference" are not suppose to be subjected to, if they are required, for false brethren require subjection.

4* And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
5* To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
6* But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:

It is my opinion that CGCM as a conference, points to iron pegs (boundaries) that by now, they really know by scripture are not there, but are having a hard time owning up to it.

That is the problem with idolatry and Baal worship, once entered into it is tough to get out of.

great post Hank!

>>It is my opinion that CGCM as a conference, points to iron pegs (boundaries) that by now, they really know by scripture are not there, but are having a hard time owning up to it... ...H has too many inconsistencies, and if they wish to be a biblical government, they need to line their boundaries up with scripture.<<

Hank:
I hold your feet to the fire frequently (and deservedly - in my opinion) but I also want to give credit where (and when) credit is due. Your statement above is very well put and I agree with you (for a change).

Okay guys, your writings are all well and fine, and I agree in subject.

Fred, it was from you way back on another road {the HoldemanSurvivors forum}, even on the early path of that forum, you got me interested in this subject. So I asked question, defended you in the church, saved your writings, reread and studied them, asked you for the best books on the matter, looked at some of the web sites you recommended, and last but not least searched high and low in the scriptures. So Fred my glasses aren't fogged over because I'm fairly consistence with your initial teachings though you have an opposite position with the church. Yet I'm taking into consideration you hadn't put it into practice to try its outcome which put you out of the church. But if I remember right you defended the church with these same ideas. But I'm willing to retract this charge if I'm wrong, and I say it friendly.

Here's my problem and has always been my problem. Contention and border raiding points to a spiritual error. A person can have all the individual authority they can muster or get wrongly, and what good does it do them if there is still fighting? It don't matter if every appearance says you're right. If you're married to a problem, you are associated with it, taken to court with it, counter raiding borders with it, held responsible with it, lying with it, praying with it, tainted with it, going into a lull with it, coming back into the fire with it, and on and on and on and on it goes. This is the massive side, this is the spiritual picture. As long as there's not final judgment, this is the way it is.

What is said authority if there is not peace or the grace and vision to win your wars? Peace at a border is not enduring agreement because there's a border. But if there's no motive or reason to correct or fight the other state or person, this is present peace. Peace among brethren is different because there are no borders and there is one mind and one spirit. The latter is spiritual peace, the former is natural peace or world peace sought for and responsible by governments. The spiritual man or woman is not accountable to natural peace though they do not hinder it least they be married to it.

So Fred, you can talk about our form of government and natural rights and laws and property lines all you want and I'll look for a bigger sign to prove them. But if there's already peace, why should I look any further? But on the other hand many things are claimed and said, but so what if there's ongoing war!

Brent

Brent,

I don't think man's emotion and spiritual appeals works too well when injustice reigns. I still totally believe in the principles of charges, discharge and honor, but I simply cannot see attempting to change the mind of the idol those people have built by long-suffering, it simply will not work, because though their word is worthless in the areas of justice, they have promised by incorporating their contracted kingdom, to allow people to leave unmolested.

They are simply refusing to keep their promise, but people can still leave, So I just don't see staying in there and long suffering hoping they will wake up, for they can't speak up even if they did wake up, the woman described in pr 7 which Is the corporate entity of the Cgcm and they serve is treacherous and will bite them if they switch sides.

Anyway, I hope I haven't disappointed you too much with my change of strategy in this matter, I simply did not see that there was a real kingdom, and a contracted secret order society that uses treachery and deception. I was dealing with them in honor as if their motives were pure even though their actions were bad, and they were dealing with me by secret order protocol willfully (it appears) treading over the top of honesty.