I know all about pain, hurt, and rejection. The Holdemans haven't the foggiest idea how to be compassionate and understanding when a person has a difficult situation although I do know just a few that are. If you are a Holdeman, don't EVER, EVER, allow yourself to get sick with any long term illness or any type of accidents or debilitating circumstances. You will be set aside and forgotten. You will be talked about behind your back and they'll pass around rumors that don't have a shred of truth to them. They will ask everyone but YOU how you are doing. They will NEVER call and ask if there is anything they can do to help. I would rather ask for help from a beggar on the street than to ask a Holdeman to condescend from his lofty, high minded, arrogant, proud, better-than-thou status. True friends are hard to find in the H church, someone that that you can share your heart with, that will stay with you no matter what happens. We do have a few but if you have any, treat them like gold and reciprocate their friendship and never let them go.
Most Holdemans you can't get close to because they are afraid they will expose their vulnerability. They might say something wrong that will damage their reputation. After all, reputation and image is the numero uno concern in the H church. Just go read any MOT and you will see it. Is there anywhere in the Bible where Jesus was concerned about HIS reputation? Like was his robe long enough, was is hair parted in the middle,that His beard was long enough, that His sandals were the right color,that He was riding the classiest donkey around, that He was worried about what others would think? I don't think so.

This was supposed to go behind Locklady's post on other thread.

GM: What does Jesus have to do with Holdemanism in the first place?

GM, your honesty is refreshing.

A friend is hard to find and harder to keep when the road gets rough. Investment into someone else's life can be very costly, but if invested wisely can be very profitable as well.

there is a part of the H system that precludes true friends, true sharing, kindness, true christian love, making keeping up of appearances, set standards, correct procedures..... whatever predominate. there is a background spirit that is working to keep the true spirit of God from being able to work.

That being said, I have to say that it is really possible to have true friends that are H that will be there for you, that really care and love you even when they think you have gone off to left field. There are true H Christians just like there is in any other denomination. They are truly trying to live a christian life to the best of their ability where they are. there really are some members that truly understand what we are saying on here and want the situations to change just as much as we do.
Sometimes I think that in our hurt, sadness, sight of what is going on that is not right, we make broad statements and paint things with a wide brush and make statements that seem to include those that we really consider as friends. We are not trying to include them, we tend to not think of them as H persay, but when we say "H do thus and thus" and they hear what we have said, they feel like we are including them, and often we hurt those we love the most.

Love and prayers, Locklady

Holdeland reminds me a bit of a British sitcom on PBS called Keeping Up Appearances. The main character, Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced, boo kay and heaven help anyone who mispronounces it), is an imperious, pretentious, slightly on the high side of middle class, housewife who thinks she is God's gift to everyone with whom she comes into contact. She is constantly trying to curry favour with those higher on the social ladder and never has any real, connected relationships with anyone.

GM, I think one of the big reasons H's don't have close friends is that it is taught against. They fear friends sharing because there is power in openness. You start to understand that you are not alone in your thoughts feelings and struggles. When two stand together strength is multiplied. This type of strength is unacceptable to them. They do not like anyone that departs from the herd.

here is a challenge to you all. as part of our homework for a bible study that I am participating in, we are to look for those God moments in our life, that time when God speaks to you and lets you know that he is there for you. Just a small example is just a morning before my mom died, during that very stressful time, I had to go back home and take care of some things and as I drove over the hill toward home, I faced a beautiful clear blue sky and the song came to me "What a beautiful day for the Lord to come again."
So often God speaks to us in a still quiet voice, but we are so busy doing, griping, making noise, that we miss that moment of inspiration.

God Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and Wisdom to know the difference.

Love and prayers, Locklady

>>They fear friends sharing because there is power in openness. You start to understand that you are not alone in your thoughts feelings and struggles. When two stand together strength is multiplied. This type of strength is unacceptable to them.<<

Sani:

That is very true. It is precisely for this reason that virtually never will a group of Holdeman laity group together and challenge the clergy. If they did, it would totally screw up the system. Think for a bit: Let's say the ministers were wanting to expel someone but one or more members disagreed and voted against it. Well, they'd be thrown into church work faster than young Johnny Holdeman got into the pants of young Elizabeth back in the 1800s.

But, since the vote is required to be unanimous, at least per the rules of the COGICM Inc. (a Kansas corporation), if a group would organise to ensure that no one was expelled for trivial and unfounded reasons, power would be returned to the people. Of course, people like Don Millsap would probably blow a few gaskets, but that would be a good thing, I figure.

>>But, since the vote is required to be unanimous,<<

What good is a vote if you can't vote your conscience and are forced to stand if you want to stay in the graces of the authority and not have your reputation damaged?

Out of the hundreds of H I know only in the oast year I
have discovered [ one ] whi is a friend and I beleave is
a real christian .

How ever as much as he cares his hands are tied behind his
back by the dicktaters of holiesm .

There for compermizing his effect .

But I thank the world of him .

It is to bad I cannot mention his name with out him getting
in serious trouble .

<>>But, since the vote is required to be unanimous,<<

What good is a vote if you can't vote your conscience and are forced to stand if you want to stay in the graces of the authority and not have your reputation damaged?>

Or they do like they did in my case and change it from a standing vote to a raising of hands vote and then never look at the cong because they know every does not have their hand up and just declare you exed any way.

But hey maybe the deacon was right on when he told me "don't take it so bad, just look at it as a stepping stone in your christian life."

I remember thinking " You have just declared me spiritual dead and you are telling me to think of it as a stepping stone in my christian life and you are telling me I have no Christian life"

I had been praying and asking God to help me have a closer walk with him and I will have to say this, I have really been learning to depend on Him more than I think I ever would have. I never dreampt of the devastating affects it would all have on my family and how hard it would be.

"True friends are hard to find in the H church, someone that that you can share your heart with"

Very true and if you are an open person (not H cosmetic openness) you may find friends that listen but are unable to understand complete 2-way openness. I believe this is part of the oppressive system we grew up in, we just don't know how to be real true friends.

Sometimes I have wondered if the lack of openness and true friendship is due to the German heritage most have. The "Germans', excuse we folks, are not the most open genial people around. Taken with their superior race mentality. Now that said, I have discovered that many in the H church did, or do not have an understanding of the workings of a friendship. They are so secure with their large extended families that they feel no need. Family is there to met every need they have. To bad for the poor sap that wonders in with no connections. It is hard for them to understand why he is not completely satisfied with the wonderful system. So as he starts expressing the sentiment that not all is well in relationships he is looked at as if there must be something wrong because he just can't seem to find his place. Not to mention his place is alone looking for a true friend.

"If you are a Holdeman, don't EVER, EVER, allow yourself to get sick with any long term illness or any type of accidents or debilitating circumstances."

GM: I tried not to "allow" myself to get sick, but alas, i am H with a long term illness.

I think some of this has to do with personality. I struggle with "personal communication" with some folks (not with all) and others it comes easy. Back in H days, one H fellow said of me "you just cannot get close to Hank". My dad had a similar situation and I see now that he struggled with it. I also have discussed this with a paternal cousin (an H preacher) and he too was aware of his own problem... family DNA ??. For some reason, some of us do not open up easily. I think it was Stan ??, who spoke of "misfits" here a month ago... the thought then occurred to me that I was a "misfit."

Just yesterday my wife and I had a discussion of some of our feelings of rejection, not fitting in or loneness, or when she or I do not understand each other. The advantage for believers is that we can always be sure that God understands us and befriends us... even when others do not. For me, that is "faith".

"What good is a vote if you can't vote your conscience and are forced to stand if you want to stay in the graces of the authority and not have your reputation damaged?"

When I got the boot there was a friend of mine who did not stand up. Within a year or two a "sin" was dredged up from her past and she was expelled. Might not have been connected, but I always wondered.

Okay, so I was having a bad day.(my opening post) But that doesn't negate the fact that what I said was the truth. I agree with Locklady that I was painting with a wide brush. I am sorry to all you Holdemans out there reading here if that was offensive to you. I know there are a lot of you that reach out and help those in distress. I am thankful for all that I do have. Appreciate all the good comments.

But I agree with sanitizer that true friendship seems to be discouraged subliminally.
He said,> You start to understand that you are not alone in your thoughts feelings and struggles.< Isn't that why many have a hard time coping with their problems because they feel like they can't share with others and hence the need for medication? I agree too that some are predisposed to be more reserved due to inherited personalities but that usually can be overcome if you work at it. I think we can all improve to be more hospitable to those around us.

I wonder if the whole system isn't kinda subliminal and that is why there is so much of alone feelings. and yet there are many that never really get that alone feeling, but when you actually get them to talk, most have the same struggles, only problem is you aren't supposed to have struggles and those that have less struggles and especially those that have very little health problems seem to think that there are simple solutions to all problems. Just get over it.
(sarcasm alert)
If you would just be where you should be spiritually ....
If you would just be more quiet.....
If you would just be more humble......
If you would just let God carry your problem.......
If you could just give it to God.......
...............
Then you wouldn't be ill........
You would have a nicer, bigger, better place to live.....
You wouldn't have financial setbacks.........
This list is endless.................\
It has a lot to do with never being able to admit that there could be something I am missing.
Being a christian is no guarantee of perfection, prosperity, perfect health........
granted I can see a lot of Roses in the mud if I look for them, but I wonder sometimes if one of the reasons so many are on antidepressants isn't simply because they cannot actually talk over their problem and feel like someone is really truly listening and understanding. and when that happens our bodies simply do what they are made to do, Our minds don't shut off. There is really something to the fact that our minds, bodies and spirits do work together and when any of those parts have a problem, it affects the rest. I wonder sometimes if there aren't too many unwritten doctrines that we are supposed to accept with blind faith, and our minds, heart and soul cannot reconcile them to the gospel truth and if that isn't creating some of the problem we are having relating to it all.
I was told today that I am having an identity crisis. For 34 yrs I have been a Holdeman woman, even though I was ex for 11 yrs now, I still dressed and totally related to that. Men do not have the same identity problem because they look very little different from the world around them. while we can identify them to a degree the average joe is not going to walk down the street and say there goes a H man.
but for me, I have come to realise that for 11 yrs I have not registered that I am not that anymore. In my mind I kept thinking this is only a temporary situation, that surely will resolve itself and then it will be over. But there seems to be no resolution to it, now I must learn who I am outside of Holdemanism and what God has for me in life outside that realm. God only knows, cause I sure don't.
I still maintain that the only time I will truly attain perfection here on earth is when they close the lid on my casket and bury me in the back 40.......

Love and prayers, Locklady

made a mistake,again!