Remember when I said that every time America made a decision that went against Iseral? You wanted to know some specifics? Back in 2005 our president urged Iseral to give the covenant land called the Gaza strip back to there enemies. They did, and the exact moment the last Jew left the Gaza strip, a tropical storm started forming off the coast of Florida. We know it by Katrinia.

The word says that whatever nation does against Iseral, God will do against that nation. Word also says that God will judge Iseral not anyone else.

There is a book out called Newton's Riddle (Sir Issaic Newton) by Neil Russell. If you are interested in reading it, let me know. I'll give you specifics. calledoutPTL

Calledout,
Sorry to put a wet blanket on this but it takes very little research to know that the covenant God made with the "Israel" (people of God) of the Bible is not the same "Israel" (land occupied by people called jews, muslimss, christians, atheists, & etc.) that we call it today.

Exactly what I was thinking, Mark! There is a big difference between Judaism and Zionism. Most conservative North American Protestants do not realise this, unfortunately.

Hi Mark,! Knew you'd answer this. smile. Anyhow, if it isn't, why are the Jews going back to their homeland like the word says? If isn't the same place, where was the original land? I know where the ancient maps says, so what is different now? (Except they don't have all the promised land back.) The word says they will get their promised land back so sometime they will. smile calledoutPTL

I love your fervor and sweet spirit! (even when someone disagrees)

Thanks Mark, Hey the coffee is getting cold, but I'll make a new pot!! calleodutPTL

CalledOut,

There are so many problems with your proposition that God punishes innocents for the actions of their government, that I don’t know where to start and how many to include. But let me just touch on a few of the highlights.

First of all, you haven’t shown me any statistical significance yet. You have alluded to two times that storms hit the U.S. at or near times that the US government took action against Israeli expansion into Palestinian territory. Can you put some statistical numbers to the chances of this happening randomly? How many bad storms are there which can’t be linked to any US action? Let’s plot the storm severity and the U.S. actions on the same graph and just see if there is any significant correlation, before we entertain any thoughts about divine punishment.

Secondly, the timing of the incident you named above seems kind of mushy. If Katrina would have happened the same say the president urged Israel to leave the Gaza strip, or the day Israel agreed to do so, or the day the first Jew left, or the day the bulk of them left, or the day the last one left, I believe those all would have been grabbed onto as proof by the proponents of your theory. Besides, who can really say when the absolute last one left? That in itself seems like it could be very mushy. Isn’t it likely that some Jews with Palestinian family ties probably blended into the population? I think it likely that “the same day the last Jew to leave” statement was conveniently defined by the purveyors of this dubious theory.

So if God is using natural storms to punish us for our actions, shouldn’t we look to every storm as a punishment for something? What did our nation do to bring on the Greensburg tornado? Storms are a natural phenomenon and well understood. We can’t predict always exactly when, where, and how severe they will be, but it is a well known fact that certain weather conditions cause things like hurricanes and tornados. They are going to happen if people exist or not. An earthquake happens because of gradual tensions in the earth’s crust that build up over time due to geothermal activity in the earth’s core. When enough tension builds up the plates finally release and shift. No divine interaction, just simple well understood physics.

So according to your proposition, am I supposed to believe that God uses these natural phenomena for the sole purpose of punishing us? Does he somehow wait for the right moment to relieve the tension in the earths crust, or gather all the powerful forces amassing in our oceanic atmosphere to unleash them with proper timing, based on the words of one man (our president)?

Another point is this: Are there no wrong actions Israel can take against the Palestinian people? Can they bomb and starve civilian populations and take away land which has been owned by Palestinian families for dozens of generations? Surely there is some possible ethical line they can cross which deserves a reprimand from the U.S! But according to the inflexible stance this doctrine you espouse seems to take, there is nothing anyone should do to impede Israel’s progress to expand its territory.

As Mark and Steve have pointed out, you can make a good argument from the scriptures that the covenant with Israel does not mean the literal country. Given this ambiguity, it doesn’t seem very prudent of God to try to get our attention in such mushy ways. We can scratch our heads and justifiably be doubtful that there is any connection between US actions and storms. In the meantime, people are suffering and dying when these storms hit.

Is that the best God can do to get important messages across? Beat us with what appears to be natural and random events? Why doesn’t he just come down and hover above the clouds and yell out the words so we can all hear and there is no doubt, like he supposedly did in the OT?????

Hi Stan, Thought you'd answer that way. smile.

2)paragraph" The word says that there will always be storms and diasters so you will always have those. Looking at big diasters would where you would have to find the statistics. Twin towers & Katrinia for starters. There is a book out that has these in it. called "Eye to Eye" I don't have it, wish I did, and don't have the authors name.

3)paragraph: Those who really study the Jewish religion and this theory that I also believe, would be watching this very closely. On the national level and also the world level, especially when it involves the Jews.

4)paragraph: Might have to see what the US did or didn't do before the Greensburg tornado. But even though it was a very bad thing to happen, some people accepted the Lord through it all. As far as being as castrophic, it wasn't close to the twin towers or Katrinia. And yes when people walk away from God's protection some things happen, but as I said before, natural things do happen. Blame Adam and Eve for that. smile.

8)paragraph: Sure Mark and Steve have a different viewpoint. We've discussed this many times. That's okay, everyone including me, are still learning more about God all the time and what His way is. I didn't grow up believing in the rapture or tribulation as you well know I didn't. I didn't read any books about it before I believed it. I was reading in the word one day when I feel the Holy Spirit showed me the meaning of what I was reading. Then I started studying the word to see if it that was right or not. Of course since then I have read books on it. Just like I'm sure Mark and Stve read books that they believe is correct. One thing is for sure, theirs, yours, anyones, or my salvation doesn't count on believing either theory. Salvation comes from the blood of Jesus.

I'm just pointing to some of your responses. I'm not going to address everyone. I would like to be wrong in my theory, more people would go to heaven. if I was. God uses whatever He can to get people to accept Him, whether it be war, diasters, finances or health. One thing your not doing is, thinking who the enemy of Christ is. What if you are blaming God for something He didn't do? John 10:10 says: "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy; I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Stan you wrote: Why doesn’t he just come down and hover above the clouds and yell out the words so we can all hear and there is no doubt, like he supposedly did in the OT????? Would you listen if He did? A lot of people in the OT didn't. (But He still does to individuals at times.)1 Cor 1:27 says, "But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise: and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are might. I guess what I mean by that verse is that trying to establish a scientific way of believing isn't always the way to go. Sometimes just plain old faith in His word is sufficient. smile.

Just keep on challenging us, Stan, it is good for us. Maybe God is using you in this, to help us grow and establish what all we believe. smile. calledoutPTL

Stan:

Very good post. As I may have mentioned previously, I read a book a month or two ago entitled "The Body and the Blood" which discussed the current (well, almost - it was written around the millennium) state of Christians in Palestine. If what the Israeli state (NOT synonymous with Judaism in my opinion) is doing to the Palestinian Christians is approved by God, then the Palestinian Christians should turn atheist - what I mean is if the God they believe in supports the persecution of them, then they are clearly worshipping the wrong God, and by extension, so are all of us who are Christian.

Mark
"Sorry to put a wet blanket on this but it takes very little research to know that the covenant God made with the "Israel" (people of God) of the Bible is not the same "Israel" (land occupied by people called jews, muslimss, christians, atheists, & etc.) that we call it today."

They are of course not the same people but they are the descendants of the same people.

CalledOut, you asked if I would listen if God would appear in the clouds and yell down at me. You had better believe I would! After my heart had settled down below 500 beats per minute and some blood had drained back into my face, and I was able to confirm from others I had not been hallucinating, I would do whatever was asked in a hurry!

That is the trouble with this whole affair. There is no evidence to go on. Nobody has yet received any such undeniable proof. The evidence all points away from any type of supernatural correspondence with man.

And I think the fact that the Israelites did not seem to want to obey speaks volumes. They never heard the voice from heaven either and had just as much reason to be doubtful and dismiss what the prophets claimed they heard.

Stan: My husband and myself have both heard audibly from God. You bet your heart accelerates!!smile. WE had never heard of such a thing, actually been taught a little against it. It only happened to ministers right? Now in the OT when Moses was in the desert ALONE, God spoke to him. There are many others where no one was with the person. This happened in the OT as well as the NT. At other times, others heard the voice as well, Paul did. Sure it startles a person, and at first you wonder if it is real. But when your heart settles down, smile, the word says you will know the Shepherds voice. We did. Remeber how Paul recognized the voice of the Lord? When that happens you don't care what anyone, church, pastors, family, or friends think about you or what you heard, you got your marching orders and you do, unless you are totally disobedient to the voice of our Lord which some are. But thanks for telling me how to pray for you! LOL

Of course people call it supernatural. (In realty, it should be the normal instead of the abnormal.) We all should be living that IN tune with the Holy Spirit, unfortunely, no one hardly does. We are all human.

It is very natural to think that because a person didn't hear it or it hasn't happened to them, it can't be right. No evidence. Iseralites were the same. smile.

I know a there is a lot of speculation when the rapture is going to happen. When they get into doing their own figuring etc, that happens. Setting dates isn't according to the word. God has His own timetable. One thing when you start hearing about a certain person worldwide, who claims peace all over and works for that end, that has charisma, start watching him. What might be a season to you or me, isn't to God. We might never have anything happen in our lives, grandchildren or great-children and it could still be "the season is nigh". In the meantime, we all have work to do, tarry until I come. For that reason, it doesn't matter which side is right. We all have His work to do. calledoutPTL

Stan , prepare to be ready for God to actually talk to you. When he does, you will not need the affirmation of others to know it is him. He will give you that himself.
Since I can go to my aunt's and see first hand some of the evidence that the evolution theory is based on, I do have to tell you that Charles Darwin died a Christian and was sad at heart that what he had written had created such a wrong thing.
You might be surprised at what God uses to wake you up so he can talk to you.




Love and prayers, Locklady