I warn you, these lyrics may be offensive to some of you. But to me the subtle message out weighs the offence. A song like this confronts self righteousness. And then when it says wise thing, how do you justify it? Because to self righteousness one thing can judge a whole song or a whole book or a whole person. If a song or a book or a person is the whole error of one assumed wrong involved with it, which wrong to begin with may have a time and not a time for it, which only the song or book or person can justify, how can one truly understand or discern anything but by the spirit? In other words one cannot judge anything truly without spiritual understanding. I was taken back when I first heard this song. I right away seen the suggestion of true things pop out one after another in the song. To me this was way more powerful than anything that may sing wrong on the surface. The sexual things in the song are not all that much more plainer than the spiritual symbolicness of sex, which the scriptures are loaded with. Also I believe at least part of what the lyric writer means by "Thou shalt always kill, is to always keep killing and sacrificing things in your life so they don't become a idol to you. The second to the last line of the song sums it up - "Thou shalt think for yourselves." This thinking for yourself never stops you. It is the set way, the condemnation, the not trying of things that stops you, not what is in this world.


THOU SHALT ALWAYS KILL


Thou shalt not steal if there is direct victim.
Thou shalt not worship pop idols or follow lost prophets.
Thou shalt not take the names of Johnny Cash, Joe Strummer, Johnny
Hartman, Desmond Decker, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix or Syd Barret in vain.
Thou shalt not think that any male over the age of 30 that plays with a
child that is not their own is a peadophile… Some people are just nice.
Thou shalt not read NME.
Thall shalt not stop liking a band just because they’ve become popular.
Thou shalt not question Stephen Fry.
Thou shalt not judge a book by it’s cover.
Thou shalt not judge Lethal Weapon by Danny Glover.
Thall shalt not buy Coca-Cola products. Thou shalt not buy Nestle products.
Thou shalt not go into the woods with your boyfriend’s best friend, take
drugs and cheat on him.
Thou shalt not fall in love so easily.
Thou shalt not use poetry, art or music to get into girls’ pants. Use it
to get into their heads.
Thou shalt not watch Hollyokes.
Thou shalt not attend an open mic and leave before it’s done just
because you’ve finished your ****ty little poem or song you
self-righteous prick.
Thou shalt not return to the same club or bar week in, week out just
’cause you once saw a girl there that you fancied but you’re never gonna
f------ talk to.


Thou shalt not put musicians and recording artists on ridiculous
pedestals no matter how great they are or were.
The Beatles… Were just a band.
Led Zepplin… Just a band.
The Beach Boys… Just a band.
The Sex Pistols… Just a band.
The Clash… Just a band.
Crass… Just a band.
Minor Threat… Just a band.
The Cure… Just a band.
The Smiths… Just a band.
Nirvana… Just a band.
The Pixies… Just a band.
Oasis… Just a band.
Radiohead… Just a band.
Bloc Party… Just a band. [ed.’s note: this is debatable]
The Arctic Monkeys… Just a band.
The Next Big Thing.. JUST A BAND.


Thou shalt give equal worth to tragedies that occur in non-english
speaking countries as to those that occur in english speaking countries.
Thou shalt remember that guns, bitches and bling were never part of the
four elements and never will be.
Thou shalt not make repetitive generic music, thou shalt not make
repetitive generic music, thou shalt not make repetitive generic music,
thou shalt not make repetitive generic music.
Thou shalt not pimp my ride.
Thou shalt not scream if you wanna go faster.
Thou shalt not move to the sound of the wickedness.
Thou shalt not make some noise for Detroit.
When I say “Hey” thou shalt not say “Ho”.
When I say “Hip” thou shalt not say “Hop”.
When I say, he say, she say, we say, make some noise… kill me.
Thou shalt not quote me happy.
Thou shalt not shake it like a polaroid picture.
Thou shalt not wish you girlfriend was a freak like me.
Thou shalt spell the word “Pheonix” P-H-E-O-N-I-X not P-H-O-E-N-I-X,
regardless of what the Oxford English Dictionary tells you.
Thou shalt not express your shock at the fact that Sharon got off with
Bradley at the club last night by saying “Is it”.
Thou shalt think for yourselves.


And thou shalt always… Thou shalt always kill!



By the band, "Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip

I SHALT BE GLAD I DON'T LISTEN TO THE RADIO ANYMORE (EXCEPT NPR).

Brent R,

Do acknowledge the spiritual concerns of these lyrics?

Forget about the bad language and sexual reference for awhile. Then is there a message?

Brent

I don't look to bands, whether mainstream or alternative, for messages or guidance, spiritual or otherwise. Maybe it's narrow minded of me but I prefer good old hymns or sermon tapes, there I can find comfort and inspiration along with my Bible. I realize that many folks are happy seeking hidden messages and spiritual insights from sources that I would never allow in my house. I guess all I can say is if it works for them, more power to them. But I can't help but wonder if folks can't get lost as they wander about when they could just as well 'stick close to home' and be inspired to seek God. Just my thinking, for what it's worth.

"Thou shalt not take the names of Johnny Cash, Joe Strummer, Johnny
Hartman, Desmond Decker, Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix or Syd Barret in vain."

Is there anything about these characters that should make them sacred to us?

Why should there be any weight in somebody's assertion that poetry shouldn't be used to get what they want? Can't that just be covered in "thou shalt not commit adultery?"

Why is there any grace for these comments - better yet why not trash them and say it won't do one bit of good to obey these commands - in fact it may be that "When we think we need to "do" anything, (including the rules you [Qwerty] have repeatedly posted or keeping the 10 commandments) to find acceptance or favor from God, makes us a fornicator" as Mark says?

Just giving you a hard time, Brent, and yet curious what you're getting at!

Thou shalt not be a busy body and stick
your nose into every thing.

Okay, if you'll just explain: why should we always kill?

Just being crotchety and sticking my nose into your business .

"Just giving you a hard time, Brent, and yet curious what you're getting at!"

Adiel,

I don't have no agenda. I figured I would bring something different to the forum to challenge the things wrote here in a different way. Well that's about an agenda in itself!!!!!

Brent

Okay. Just saying. I hope you don't think I have an agenda by questioning. Just a band, you know?

Go ahead and give us your interpetation of the ### Commandments according to "Just a band". Is there any insight there that we can live by?

Adiel,

You're making me grin tonight.

Lets see about the commandments of "Just a band"!!!!!

"Thou shalt not worship pop idols or follow lost prophets."

"Thou shalt not fall in love so easily."

"Thou shalt not put musicians and recording artists on ridiculous
pedestals no matter how great they are or were."

"Thou shalt not move to the sound of the wickedness."

Here's four of them. He he he. Aren't they worth considering?

Brent

I'll have to ponder them, Brent. They seem a little complicated. I like commandments that mean what they say.

I have problems understanding the lyrics because sometimes they make sense, such as in the "Thou shalt not worship pop idols" theme, and sometimes they are sarcastic (I hope) as in "Thou shalt always kill." Or if the latter isn't sarcastic then I'm not sure how it ties in either.

I think there is a lot of truth in the lyrics but I'm not sure if the singer has a message or is just rambling. What do you think Brent? Or anyone else?

"I think there is a lot of truth in the lyrics but I'm not sure if the singer has a message or is just rambling. What do you think Brent? Or anyone else?"

Arm,

There's probably not much of a message in the lyrics. More like observations of a person from a different background. I like to observe other people's world too. They say their wise things and truths a different way. I suppose if we don't consider and acknowledge all the world, we could be called "The exholdeman people". And there's already room for that just label on this forum!!!

Brent

If the ex-Holdeman people are "our people" then the line "Thou shalt think for yourselves" fits for us. That is why I return to read, because there are a whole bunch of people who have had to learn to think for themselves against some pretty tough obstacles. I know it annoys you, Brent, that people have to keep rehashing the issues, but it is a long process for many.

_______________________________________
Out of faith come all blessings and powers and also the victory for overcoming. ~ Andrew Murray

"I know it annoys you, Brent, that people have to keep rehashing the issues, but it is a long process for many."

Adiel,

If "our people" "keep rehashing the issues", then there's not much moving on. When you think for yourself, you don't travel or think with people that can't resolve issues.

Brent

"When you think for yourself, you don't travel or think with people that can't resolve issues."

Unless you want to minister to or counsel them. I've also noticed that thinking people sometimes get caught up in rehashing issues because of a natural or ingrained need to have the last word or be "right". Then there are those of us who are ill bred, low brows taking cheap shots at poor defenseless Qwerty.

Is it going to freeze in Kansas tonight?



_______________________________________
Out of faith come all blessings and powers and also the victory for overcoming. ~ Andrew Murray

<If "our people" "keep rehashing the issues", then there's not much moving on. When you think for yourself, you don't travel or think with people that can't resolve issues.>
there is another way of looking at this question. Sometimes in order to help someone else you must revisit where you came from. I think you have seen enough of my history here, probably more than you wish you had, But in the past 5 mos I have sometimes posted just small bits or have been in a number of other places where just letting someone see where I have come from has allowed someone else to open and share things that they have felt alone in and been able to see they were not alone and have been able to share things that are helping others to help themselves or help someone they also love.
Tonite we heard the experience of a woman that grew up in a Mennonite community as an illegitimate child. There were some there that have known her story for years and knew that she was related to them but were not allowed for yrs to even let her know they knew. She was given a chance to let others into her heart and see the pain she had carried and was with Jesus overcoming. Will she have to revisit that? Yes, many times because it is part of who she is. But at the same time, God will use her to help others that are feeling just like she did.
We were visiting with someone afterward and they made the comment that her parents made a wrong decision and came across condemning. I pointed out that "yes, they did make a wrong decision, but God was still in control and God still had a hand in her being here, because not nearly every one that makes the wrong choice like her parents did, pays the price they did."
In the same way, not every one that is replaying their story is just sitting around living in bitterness and unforgiveness. Many times just telling our story allows someone else a chance of being able to be healed from their brokeness like we are being healed from ours.
Many people cannot relate to someone that they see as having a perfect life and having it all together. They need to see others with faults or know that someone else has suffered hurts also to be able to relate to them on a personal level or to even see how God could possibly relate to their life sorrows, hurts and trials.
I know that on a personal level I have always related better to listening to ministers that allow people to see a bit of them in real life, that they also have struggles with raising a family, that their past isn't perfect, they too have suffered hurts and pain, than I do with guys that come acrossed as having all the answers, or have perfect children that never make messes, disobey, are dressed like they came out of a catalog picture session.
For me being able to see someone else's hurts makes it much easier for me to be less judgemental, more forgiving, and allows me to see others as human like me, instead of a paragon of perfection that will fall off of its pedestal and hurt me.

Love and prayers, Locklady

"Unless you want to minister to or counsel them. I've also noticed that thinking people sometimes get caught up in rehashing issues because of a natural or ingrained need to have the last word or be "right". Then there are those of us who are ill bred, low brows taking cheap shots at poor defenseless Qwerty."

Adiel,

When everything is said and done, the truth will be left standing. There's no way to escape the last stand. If it is more important to you to not have the last stand because this is humbleness or righteousness or something, but is really an excuse to get around not being tried, or receiving or finding the truth, all you've done is given way to evil.

Truth isn't going to set up an standard before the battle is over.

Brent

Lacklady,

Showing your Damascus or desert road is quite different then rehashing things that won't fall one way or another. Back and forth and in a circle they go, agreeing to disagree, and such prolongingments of contention.

The Damascus or desert road is where old problems are solves and new one arise. If a certain people keep giving you trouble, you might want to check if you're lost and going in a circle.

Brent

Good point Brent, (like I say I am) but if we are all about moving on what the heck are we still peeking in on this forum for?
I'm seriously wondering what is wrong with me, I haven't seen a post here in awhile that has done anything for me, seems all the interesting people kinda have shriveled up. If your not into the latest competition of my Dad is bigger then your Dad, not only is he the biggest, look at me prove to you why I'm more like him then you are and na na na nana he loves me more then you, You don't have much to post about.
When someone does try to turn the conversation in a new direction, it just gets sucked into this spiritually draining religious study...that is totally uninteresting and uninspiring to me personally.
I'm not saying these are useless conversations, they just do nothing for me...
What keeps me coming back here?
Brent, you always have insight into other peoples motives, what is mine?

Grace,

I'm slowly but surely on the way out of here. I seen this morning before I posted I may be talking to myself. So it's good that you remind me of it again.....and this is a second witness. Because there is an "exholdeman people", that's a fact, not even debatable. What I have to do is finish making my claim true - that I'm not an exholdeman!

So Grace I'm working hard on overcoming this site. It has been a great hindrance to me.

Brent

Grace,

You want to know what a sign of "a people" is? When they all come from the same place and support each other in the same cause no matter if they're Christian, atheists, agnostics, male or female, rich or poor. And by damn I don't want to be a part of that.

Brent

"If it is more important to you to not have the last stand because this is humbleness or righteousness or something, but is really an excuse to get around not being tried, or receiving or finding the truth, all you've done is given way to evil."

Brent, I don't want to give way to evil, so let's rally and keep up the dialogue.

If you don't want to be one of a group of ex-Holdeman that support each other, what are you?



_______________________________________
Out of faith come all blessings and powers and also the victory for overcoming. ~ Andrew Murray

I know why I keep coming back here.

- I do it because there are some good discussions that make me think and give me insight.
- Because being H is part of my past. There is something different, for me, when getting together with xh or h, both of which I do very rarely. Something different from when I'm with present friends. There is a 'kinship'. Whether its from nostalgia or whatever, I feel a warmth when I'm around xh and some h. My daughter, who has only been with h or xh on rare occasions (other than my family), has said that there is something comfortable and familiar about the h and xh that drop out of the past and into our lives.

Grace, I appreciate your 7 am post. You said, “When someone does try to turn the conversation in a new direction, it just gets sucked into this spiritually draining religious study...that is totally uninteresting and uninspiring to me personally.” That pretty well sums up my feeling also.

Your post was a little bit of a reproof to me, as I have probably engaged in this “my way is right” attitude, instead of just dialoging. But I guess there is a fine line between sharing and being passionate about what you do and don’t believe.

As far as the issue of what keeps me coming back here, I must honestly say it is not for support of other X-Holdemans. That is far enough removed in my life as to be very significant. But it is a community that I feel part of. I’ve been reading and participating long enough that I feel like I know a few of the contributors, and enjoy having a dialog at times. It can be entertaining, and a distraction from daily life.
The forum has evolved a lot in the past, and I’m sure it will continue to do so. I’ll keep checking in to see if the discussions get back to anything interesting.

Brent, the lyrics has some good thought provoking lines. I especially liked the “Thou shalt think for yourself”. “Thou shalt not steal if there is direct victim.” Now that is an interesting twist. I wonder what would qualify as stealing with no direct victim. Cheating a little on your income tax?

"If you don't want to be one of a group of ex-Holdeman that support each other, what are you?"

"Thou shalt think for yourselves."

There Adiel, that's my answer.

Why should I support something I don't agree with. Why don't you go support the Holdemans?

Brent

I think I can respect that, Brent. I want to think for myself while being in a support group for the H and non-H alike as long as it's about letting them live their own convictions. I don't have to support or even like everything about them but letting them think for themselves is respecting them enough to let each one live out their convictions. If they hurt me that's my problem, right? I'll do my best not to hurt them, but there are no guarantees, of course. I'm sorry if I don't defend them.

Interesting comments here... and thanks to you Brent; you have the ability to draw people out. Maybe because we are interested in your insights and yet cannot always understand you. So; it makes us "think."

Locklady, keep sharing of your life. You have heaps of insight, mercy, encouragement and love that you spread around. Its the tough things in life that make us appreciate the good. When we talk about our life, we ARE relating to others. The same for the rest of you.

Arm; you make an interesting observation about kinship... including an observation of your daughter. No question that former community/culture (most often) is something that is a bond among peoples. It is not only the bad in life (as some readers here might say this forum represents) but the good that brings people together. All things in life makes us who we are, and it can only be our past and this moment that does this. The future still is not reality.

I am leaving in two hours, on a 250 mile drive to bury a friend this afternoon. I had the privilege of interacting with him in the same community for 7 years (1974-1981) and we became good lifelong friends. He was just an ordinary guy with a sense of humor that got on some peoples nerves. But, he was one of many mentors I've had, of what life is all about.