Here are some miscellaneous quotes I have run across lately. I’m wondering if there are any interesting discussion starters in any of these.
“No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: he is always convinced that it says what he means."
--George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Arthur C. Clarke
“For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.” Carl Sagan.
“Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.” Ralph Waldo Emerson
“I certainly had no idea how little faith Christians have in their own faith till I saw how ill their courage and temper can stand any (perceived) attack on it.” Harriet Martineau
Which Author are you speaking of Paris? Aren't there thousands, when you consider all the originals, the editors, the spinners and redactors? Most often the authors are not even who people typically think they are. I think about all scholars who are willing to examine the ancient texts with a critical eye agree that Moses did not write the first four books of the OT, nor did anybody personally acquainted with Jesus write the gospels.
paris
(Is there anyone else here with as strong of a convicion about who wrote the Bible, as I have expressed?)
I have a strong conviction that it don’t matter who wrote the bible.
And to add to that I believe you can be a Christian or a
Spiritual person with out reading the bible all the time.
The bible an important book but its is way over rated, and
Very misused at times.
Over the years I've still been trying to understand if I admire or pity people with strength of conviction so concrete that it defies logical questions, powers of investigation or the intellect that God gave us.
Although I mostly truly pity people with these strength of convictions, the reason I entertain the possibility that this might be an admirable trait brings to mind a prime example of one of my dear childhood friends. He grew up in a home so indoctrinated in the infallibility of the Holdeman church that he never questioned anything. Each revival when a new rule or guideline came up, he'd cheerfully comply and either burn, throw away or make whatever changes were instructed over the pulpit and happily sail through to communion.
Although there never seemed to be any conviction on the individual items, his broad sweeping conviction in the infallibility of the Holdeman church allowed him to comply without question. Although it may sound outrageous, I have full confidence that if we had been instructed to go outside and graze like cows once a day in the front lawn he would have cheerfully complied without question.
In one sense I always envied him because life was easy. While I struggled to make sense of it all and come to terms with a lot of things I couldn't understand, his existence was a simple one. He has gone on to lead the quintessential Mennonite lifestyle with a great wife, passle of kids, new home, new vehicles and new farm equipment so whatever he did has externally worked out very well for him.
It seems to me that in faith based religious systems such as Christianity, the broader and blinder and more concrete and unshakeable your convictions can be, the better of you are.....you get to avoid asking all the really hard questions.
This message has been edited by Tranceport on Apr 14, 2008 2:39 PM
This quote was in our church bulletin yesterday & I am lovin' it!
"Like the fascination which attracts the gnat to the candle, though it burns its wings, men by nature fly to the law for salvation, and cannot be kept from seeking life by it. The law can do nothing else but reveal sin and pronounce condemnation upon the sinner, and yet we cannot get men away from it, even though we show them how sweetly Jesus stands between them and it." -Charles Spurgeon
Great post, Psy. I have known people like that also. There have been times I have almost wanted to be like that when I look at the lack of complexity in their lives. But then, I could never sell out and be someone who I am not. My mind was not made to accept input unchallanged.
My convictions lie within the Bible it's self not the possible faulty understanding of a group. Having said that I realize that God used men who were empowered by the Holy Spirit to write the Bible. And in that sense it was not a group.
I don't pity people who read the Bible for themselves.
I think people who are willing to let their convictions be as strong as possible in the Bible and it's Author are the strongest and ask and seek the harder questions in life.
Suzi
Nice quote written by the price of preachers that taught sin-you-must, eternal security, unconditional election, and the Nero like God of Calvinism.
Under the "the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones" (2Cor 3:7) all they could have under the old covenant is their sin revealed but as the old coveant was "faulty" (Heb 8:7,8), it couldn't help them stop their disodedience (Rom 8:3).
But now we are under the "perfect law of liberty" (Jam 1:25) and "his commandments are not grievous" (1Joh 5:3) for he provides us grace to resist temptations (1Cor 10:13) and to "keep his commandments" (1Joh 2:4).
I'm not sure I quite understand your post. Can you please explain to me what you mean that your convictions lie within the bible? We may be on different thought paths, so perhaps I misinterpreted what you wrote about your conviction on the Bible.
Is it correct that your belief is that since the bible in its entirety was authored through human hands but by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that gives your basis for belief in everything in it?
Maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I'll ask the questions anyway so you can see how I'm thinking for your reply.
The fundamental crux of Christianity, namely the forgiveness of sins through faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ, receives relatively little treatment in the Bible. Not to take away from the Bible because it is a beautiful work of literature, but if the Bible only consisted of John 3:16 that more than adequately provides for every human ever born to be saved.
What is the rest of the Bible for? There are obvious answers, but they all beg more questions for me. The issue of salvation excluded, what is the purpose of the rest of the Bible? If it is authored by the Holy Spirit, is it to be taken literally? If it is to be taken literally, then a doctrine of the OTVC would be quite in line if a particular body can prove moral authority for their interpretation.
If not taken literally but applied more allegorically, then is the message different for various peoples and eras? Unless a person or group takes a stand of the OTVC as the moral authority for absolute interpretation, then by the vastly varying interpretations of the Bible among Christian groups today (all claiming guidance by and interpretation through the Holy Spirit), then is it fair to say that the Spirit is itself divided, or beyond forgiveness of sins through faith in the Son of God that nothing else really matters?
If you would compare someone of the Amish faith to, let's say, a Catholic evangelical, they both will presumably espouse that the Bible is authored and inspired by the Holy Spirit and that on that basis their convictions lie within it. They will both lay claim to salvation through the forgiveness of sins through the blood of Jesus Christ and divine guidance through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, but it's somewhat unlikely that they will accept or cling to the others' doctrine and may even deny the validity of the other.
I dunno, in the end it seems like it all comes down to the George Bernard Shaw quote Stan shared with us, "No man ever believes that the Bible means what it says: he is always convinced that it says what he means." Every person who claims to be a Christian has to either believe their interpretation of the Bible is the most valid and correct as the Holy Spirit would lead, or they must entertain the idea that they are potentially as off course as the next person, which doesn't reconcile well with the conviction the Bible is both authored and interpreted through the same Holy Spirit.
I realize my post was kind of vague and I appreciate you asking these deeper questions. And as usual I may have gotten myself in over my head, so I will attempt to add some depth to my original post with the questions you asked.
>>I'm not sure I quite understand your post. Can you please explain to me what you mean that your convictions lie within the bible?<<
I simply mean that the Bible speaks to me in a personal way. My convictions are just that... mine.
>>if the Bible only consisted of John 3:16 that more than adequately provides for every human ever born to be saved.<<<
I would add that Ephesians 2:8 along with John 3:16 would make the Bible even more complete if you were only interested in Salvation;
Ephesians 2:8
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Why was the rest of the Bible written. I don't know either, but I know who wrote it.
What I use the rest of the Bible for is to see things like how we are to treat others, and a lot of it is used to bring us into a closer relationship with God. I read the Bible as a love story written to me.
I believe that we all are kind of bound by what we think it may be saying to each one of us individually.
I think some teachings in the Bible are literal and some are figurative. It's a mix for me.
>>then a doctrine of the OTVC would be quite in line if a particular body can prove moral authority for their interpretation.<<
I'm not sure there are that many who are taking a "moral authority".
Here is a real good quote that I think sums up the charity that we should all have for one another no matter our denomination,,
Notice the very last line,,it's the most important when leaving authority where it lies.
"In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, charity. In all things, Jesus Christ." -- Chrysostom
In the Christian faith essentials are the doctrine of Grace, the Trinity and and the Deity of Christ.
There you go Qwertz, it's all there, The doctrine of Grace by faith I mentioned. The others you mentioned are what Christian denominations consider nonessentials.
Caution: This forum may contain statements and comments that are offensive. If you are easily offended, please exit this forum now.
By using this forum you agree to be accountable and liable for your post's. All postings are the responsibility of the posting participant. The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the management.
