I don't have a copy, but apparently (alegedly) there is an article on the authority of the church, and the blasphemy involved in not submitting to the "church".
5:1* ¶ To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow-elder, a witness of Christ’s sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed:
2* Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, serving as overseers--not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve;
3* not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock.
4* And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
5* ¶ Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility towards one another, because, “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
6* Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.
7* Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
I find it interesting that there is such a necessity to "prove" the "authority" of the "church" when the scripture is absolutely silent on the matter, but is not silent on the authority of the "elders".
You don't have to necessarily understand the internal workings of a wolf to understand it, all you need to understand is the nature and voice of the truth, and let that which is not truth fall to the way side and let the "chips fall where they may"
To submit to the Church in general particularly to the ministry is a sin, and as qwerty points out a willful transgression against the known "law" of God.
Ga 2:5* To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
the intention of the Lord was to have the men in the family be in control of the family, and the senior elders that are qualified to be in subjection to each other without a "hierarchal" or elected authority.
It is interesting to note that authority must be reinforced from time to time.
An authority figure is not in front leading, rather in the back herding and driving.
Using a flock of sheep as an allegory, ( which many writers have done) the shepherd must be out front leading and the sheep follow willingly out of love and respect for the shepherd.
If the shepherd is behind driving rather than leading, chaos is the result.
OS do u raise sheep or have experience with sheep? i have had sheep on my farm, and always thought they were the most un-cooperative, stubborn animals i had. the last thing on their minds was to follow me or anyone, including each other.
Isa 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
It always cracked me up, about every 3rd sermon in the h is the glories of the holdeman shepherd breaking the legs of the 'sheep' so it will stay close to it's shepherd (the holdeman shepherd)
"It always cracked me up, about every 3rd sermon in the h is the glories of the holdeman shepherd breaking the legs of the 'sheep' so it will stay close to it's shepherd (the holdeman shepherd)"
LOL Fred, I have never been sure where that story came from, or references to leading this nice docile flock of sheep. Whenever i hear a sermon like that, all i can think is "this brother has obviously never had anything at ALL to do with sheep, let alone raised any"
But Jesus makes reference to sheep as well, so i can only conclude they had a different breed of sheep than what i ever seen in this country.
Maybe they just had really effective brainwashing techniques for sheep back in the biblical times and that's what caused them to be so docile. The Holdepreachers then found the OTVB(rainwashing) technique somewhere in Johnny's secret writings and have adapted it for use on people - hence the origin of Fred's term of 'sheeple' when referring to a flock of Holdelaity.
I do not like that example of breaking the sheeps leg. God sometimes allows us to make mistakes and thereby learn to follow him closer, but he is gentle, caring, healing. He does not injure us to promote dependancy. He is always standing ...patiently waiting... for us to voluntarily come to him.
This sheep's leg story is not a Holdeman original. Go type "break the leg of the sheep" into google and there are lots of sites that come up.
> He is always standing ...patiently waiting... for us to voluntarily come to him. <
Gag! That's the wrongest bullsh*t I've ever seen in my life. Is that how a father treats a wayward son? Is that how authority treats those who are destroying themselves. You have emasculated Jesus. You turn Him into a fag. I can't stand that! This sentimental, hand-wringing piteous, Jesus. He ain't my King. Thats for sure. I need a King who is sure of himself, just, fair, compassionate, knows his own authority, and can get on the stick and get things done when they need to be.
I do not like that example of breaking the sheeps leg. God sometimes allows us to make mistakes and thereby learn to follow him closer, but he is gentle, caring, healing. He does not injure us to promote dependency. He is always standing ...patiently waiting... for us to voluntarily come to him.
What I found interesting, is the groundwork they laid to get one offended, the gossip that had the preachers innitials on it, the unfounded and unjust accusations parading as truth that they sent out and the simple heads in there just accepted as truth with no discernment, and then the evil smiling eyes as the wolves stood up there and ferverently warned us that they were planning on "breaking our legs" to make us want to kiss their stinky fannies.
So I now have to be "lost" simply because I have maneuvered myself to not allow the wolves break my legs! Isn't that nice?
No, my friend, until such a time as you totally destroy the authority of the wolves in your lying wonder of a ofhc (one false hypocritical "church") you clowns deserve the forum!
No man should ever be subjected the verbal abuse from the pulpit, that I had to sit under till I finally decide to leave your liars.
I have had H people come up to me and ask me how I could stand them doing that to me, since the obvious victim of the broken leg was me! Now friend, don't you see you guys have a real problem?
Fred
Have you ever noticed that Jesus never condemned the offended one, rather He sternly warned those causing offense. Interesting.
I sat under many sermons on the evils of becoming offended yet remember none aimed at those causing offense. Hmm...
Fred
Have you ever noticed that Jesus never condemned the offended one, rather He sternly warned those causing offense. Interesting.
I sat under many sermons on the evils of becoming offended yet remember none aimed at those causing offense. Hmm...
Well actually there is a principle of offense involved in losing ones way.
Mt 13:21* Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
but to put the offense of being spiritually abused by back room wolves with unbridled authority, stolen from simple minded, silly people too lazy or spiritually childish to stand for truth, and to put that offense in the same light as being ashamed to walk with Christ.
Well, the scripture clearly condemns the one that causes offense, not the one that receives it.
Ro 16:17* Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
of course the H doesn't use the bible unless it fits their Baal
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