Cant rember the name of the bar but it was
my first time to a gay bar in Calgary Ab.
The front door was looked and a sighn said.
"rear entry only" left a lasting impresion
Do we have to get a constant barrage of sick gay innuendo. Ok if you want to stick your wiener up some other guys backdoor "GO AHEAD" Just shut up about it and go find a gay forum to post your sicko fag stuff!! Do the heteros on this site have to "validate" their sexual preference by constantly reminding everyone that they are straight????
What's up, Klondike Mike? Why are you so threatened by the fact Jeff posted that? Did it hit too close to home, since you've maybe spent too much time in the Klondike away from women and you succumbed to the warm embraces of one (or more) of your fellow prospectors up there in the Great White North?
Yeah you watch all these gay christian activist are going to give queer boy the platform of this forum. I have already noticed that Jeff has no regard for the fact that most of the people on this forum are not interested in his stupid comments about his sex preference.
That's why I told that joke yesterday because in a little while it wont matter. Jeff is in the business of hijacking anything he can to validate himself and his lifestyle.
Well Paris, in a way I agree with you, but just like it gets old hearing about back room voodoo, so queer boy stuff gets old, and probably much quicker!
Hey this is a strange forum, not being quite "Christian, but rather a gathering of people from all walks of life that have been touched one way or another by holdemanism.
one queer boy out of about 50 regular posters may well be representative of the way it really is out there, 2% or so of the population are alegedly openly queers.
I see what your saying Fred. One thing I do like about this forum is it's openness. But I have to say that there are some people that I respect but I don't understand why they would encourage the kind of dialog that Jeff seems to revel in. Tolerance is one thing but cheering on that type of talk is another.
Is this turning into a gay forum like the HS did at times? I don't keep up with all the threads so you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it is Jeff's fault for this. He posts one post and 10 others barrage with other posts and start multiple threads about that one post that Jeff posted. I'd say that others (other than Jeff) are posting far more about homosexuality than Jeff is. If you don't want this to become a gay forum than quit posting about the topic!
Fred, you should maybe do what Steve did at HS and make a sub-forum where anything that has anything to do with homosexuality must be posted.
**And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.**
It's just like the person who started this thread. Do they get any respect for at least trying to voice an opinion about what the threads have turned into?
No.... the person gets nothing but grief about it. He/she gets the gross accusation that they are gay..It just makes no sense.
>>I have already noticed that Jeff has no regard for the fact that most of the people on this forum are not interested in his stupid comments about his sex preference.<<
Paris, why do you draw more attention to Jeff by commenting on what you think is stupid. I sometimes wonder if stupid to you, Paris, is anything you don’t agree with.
Same with Mike.
Mike, if it bothers you so much, why do you start a new thread that draws more attention to it.
It’s easy to be a critic when all you do is read what others have to say. What interests you, Mike? Maybe you should start a thread on that.
“one queer boy out of about 50 regular posters may well be
representative of the way it really is out there, 2% or so
of the population are allegedly openly queers”
I may be the only one open or brave enough to post on here
But believe me there are several more.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the
Things I cannot change, the courage to
Change the things I can and the wisdom
To hide the bodies of the people I had to
Kill because they pissed me off.
I haven't heard any of us straights joke about killing the queers. How does a queer get away with joking about killing his detractors? LOL Double standard anyone?
>>Maybe you should spend some time reading Tirone.
It's just like the person who started this thread. Do they get any respect for at least trying to voice an opinion about what the threads have turned into?
No.... the person gets nothing but grief about it. He/she gets the gross accusation that they are gay..It just makes no sense.<<
I guess I really should give up my life and my evening job so I can read more here! My point is, I doubt very much these threads would turn into what they have if it wasn't for the participants. Let's pretend for a moment that Jeff is to blame for all this. Do you honestly think he would hound his point - other than the odd comment here and there - if people didn't respond?
I'm very sorry to have sounded like I was giving Mike grief for starting this thread. I didn't have him in mind at all when I posted it but I guess I'm getting back into my miscommunication skills because I'm not here as much anymore. If we would quit egging on the gays, maybe there wouldn't have been a need for Mike to start this thread.
>>Maybe Mike doesn't feel comfortable starting a thread on what interests him because he may have it derailed with gross gay talk.<<
Tell me who you think would be the one to turn Mike's thread about something he was interested in into gross gay talk and state your reasons why, possibly by giving some examples. Feel free to give specific names here. I think we could all learn from it.
My main issue is, if I decide to keep my life and not visit here more, (and I know this is selfish) is that I would appreciate being able to go through the threads that interest me without a barrage of posts about sex. I'm sure I could find enough forums elsewhere about that. Some threads are very good but then one person makes a comment and 13 other people have to call that person down before the good conversation can continue so I generally just give up following those threads.
**And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.**
This message has been edited by Tirone on Apr 24, 2008 12:19 PM
>>Do the heteros on this site have to "validate" their sexual preference by constantly reminding everyone that they are straight????<<
Oh, I suppose mentioning husbands, wives, children, pregnancy, weddings, anniversaries, widows, widowers, dating, relationship issues and just about every other part of mainstream society probably is a fairly constant validation of hetero sexual preference.
You've grown up with it around you as the norm and you don't even notice that it's inextricably linked to every part of mainstream society.
Whether it's been slavery, racial segregation, women's rights or whatever the hot button topic has been through history, it's always those at the forefront of social change who are branded as in your face activists when they bring their own issue to the same level that others have enjoyed for years.
Most of us on this forum today whether land owner, female, handicapped, gay, free citizens and the list goes on and on, enjoy the privileges and freedoms we do because some fringe group finally had enough and challenged the status quo that religious and social conservatives fought to stop. And in those cases just as today, they had just as strong a Biblical or moral stance as to why social change was inherently evil and wrong.
This message has been edited by Tranceport on Apr 24, 2008 12:24 PM
I think what I am wanting and what many others here (such as Paris, Mike, RM, etc.) are the same things but we are coming at it from different viewpoints. Some feel the only way to get rid of the gay talk is to post more about (by protesting) whereas I think the best way to get rid of it is to ignore it.
**And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.**
Hey, let's cut through the mushy bullcrap shall we? Most normal guys are freaked out by queer guys ok? So when a queer comes on here constantly mentioning his preference the majority of the guys don't like it. There are and always will be certain percentage of us that will respond.
Queers need to crawl back into the closet where they belong. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. Deal?
>>Hey, let's cut through the mushy bullcrap shall we? Most normal guys are freaked out by queer guys ok? So when a queer comes on here constantly mentioning his preference the majority of the guys don't like it. There are and always will be certain percentage of us that will respond.
Queers need to crawl back into the closet where they belong. Leave us alone and we'll leave you alone. Deal?<<
RM, I think I’ve finally figured out that homosexuality to you has nothing to do with sin. I’d be willing bet that if an extremely beautiful and attractive woman made a pass at you, you would not be repulsed. I’ll even be willing to bet that (now remember, fornication is a sin) you wouldn’t be grossed out at the fleeting thought of having a little fling with her, but I might be wrong.
On the other hand, if you were propositioned by a handsome, well built man you would probably recoil on horror, but I might be wrong.
RM, I think homosexuality more a matter of hate for you. If not hate, then an extreme fear of the unknown.
Shall we start calling this forum the Queers Support Group?
I strongly suspect gay supporters of swinging both ways.
NO red blooded testosterone producing man wants to be around men who put other men's parts in their orifices.
Are you suggesting that the reason that men feel threatened by homosexuals is because they fear change? Or are you following the argument that men are angered by homosexuals because they are not secure in their own sexuality?
It was extremely well written and made some excellent points.
RM:
Your attitude towards gay people is not much different than the attitudes of certain people with a certain skin colour (their necks are a different colour than the rest of their skin, however) towards other certain people (of another skin colour.
I realise that some people fear the unknown, or people who are different than they are, some have experienced situations that cause them to be extremely afraid of certain thing.
Some people fear things or people that are different from them, unfamiliar to them, or perhaps even familiar to them but they've had a negative experience that evokes a strong reaction. Still, just because a white person beats up a black person, doesn't mean that the black person should fear all white people and that all white people beat up on black people; just because a man rapes a woman, doesn't mean that the woman should fear all men and that all men are rapists.
I'd be willing to bet that some of the people who are the most vocal in their anti-gay rhetoric and protestations have never really had much in the way of normal interaction with an 'average' gay person. Then again, some of you probably have and had no idea. It's not like gay people walk around with "I'm gay" stamped on their foreheads.
I'm extremely freaked out and horrified by Amish people.
I mean, come on, it's not like they were born that way. It's obviously a choice. Just the thought of two Amish people doing it completely repulses me. I get grossed out at the thought of someone being attracted to an Amish person.
Why can't those Amish people take their Amish lifestyle and keep it in the closet where it belongs.
I sure wouldn't let my kids associate with anyone who lives an Amish lifestyle! Some of them even have kids and try to keep the Amish lifestyle going. And they justify all this by using the bible to make their lifestyle seem okay.
Peter: Not only that, but they even insist on going out in public together, driving in their Amish buggies, just flaunting their Amishness to anyone and everyone.
Steve, I know. And some of their "friends" even hang out with them and take them on their cute little airplanes. And then they go so far as to post pictures of them on public forums! It's a shame.
<<I'd be willing to bet that some of the people who are the most vocal in their anti-gay rhetoric and protestations have never really had much in the way of normal interaction with an 'average' gay person. Then again, some of you probably have and had no idea. It's not like gay people walk around with "I'm gay" stamped on their foreheads.>>
Oh yeah? I'd have never know Jeff didn't have queer stamped all over him. Shucks, it's in his log-in ID and every other post he makes...lol
<<Are you suggesting that the reason that men feel threatened by homosexuals is because they fear change? Or are you following the argument that men are angered by homosexuals because they are not secure in their own sexuality?>>
I'm not really here on the forum to raise the ire of anyone, so this is a delicate question for me to field. However, I'll give you my honest opinion based on what I have seen in a few cases. A few cases don't make an argument, but they illustrate a point. I'm also going to leave out religion because male repugnance, fear or whatever negative feeling toward homosexuality is not unique to religious males.
Society places a lot of pressure on males to be real men: virile, dominant, masculine & in control. I find that as a result, despite the tough, hard exterior they uphold, that a lot of men have a fragile ego and that one of their worst fears is to be perceived as passive or less than a real man. As a guy, I relate words such as sissy, wuss, pansy and other feminizing descriptors with a fear of being seen less than "one of the guys." Call me anything you want; I don't care, but start to question my manliness and I find that I bristle with anger.
I think many males with a fear of homosexuality are afraid that if another males looks at them as an object of desire that they have been feminized and it strips them of a part of their manhood. In studies that have been done, a majority of men admit to having had at least one thought in their life about what it would be like to be intimate with another male or at the very least have found another male attractive (not necessarily sexual in nature), even if they identify as strictly heterosexual. These agitate fears at work against the male ego as society upholds masculinity.
Sometimes the most vocal have the most to hide. I once met a male member of the Holdeman church who was so vehemently anti-gay that I remember once being around him when his face was red and he blurted out, "There should be capital punishment for gays....they should all be killed." Unfortunately for this poor guy, he was such a flamingly obvious homosexual (my prejudice) that it was just taken for granted in that congregation that the guy was gay. Most people just wished he'd even just admit it and quit the charade.
On the flip side, I have met some guys who are so absolutely comfortable in their own skin that homosexuality doesn't bother them in the least. They are some of the most masculine, stereotypical male figures you can meet, leering at females along the best of them. They certainly don't have any desire for homosexual relations, but neither do they feel threatened or fear homosexuality.
I've found this curious and asked them how they can have close gay friends and almost without variation they just laugh and say they know who they are and what they like and hanging out with another guy who has friendship qualities they like who also happens to like guys doesn't matter one way or the other to them.
At the end of the day I think it really comes down to security and historical and traditional ideas about male behaviour. Then again, I'm not really a good one to ask. I don't think I'm wired for things to phase me that much because even as a young child living in a rather closed Holdeman society, when I'd hear of scandal about this or that my only thought usually was, "Well, I don't care...I just hope they had fun doing it." I think I missed the judgement gene.
This message has been edited by Tranceport on Apr 24, 2008 3:03 PM This message has been edited by Tranceport on Apr 24, 2008 3:02 PM This message has been edited by Tranceport on Apr 24, 2008 3:01 PM
Well boys, all said and done, I believe we(I for one can say I've had my fill?)have went long enough down the primrose path of debating homosexuality and it's explicit details. As a straight I will now have to go upstairs to the control room and twist all the knobs this way and that to see if I am still secure in my sexual orientation and see if everything is still up to par.
I would rather not start to debate the Amish sexuality and I agree with you Peter.
Call me whatever you want, I really don't care how you interpret my posts or what you want to label me. Aside from sharing some of my historical past in the Holdeman church, I like to keep my life separate from the forum, and quite frankly I wish everyone else would to.
The main reason I'm here is that this is a forum where most of us have been touched by Holdemanism and can share. I learn a lot about myself and others, especially by those who disagree with my viewpoints because it makes me stop and re-examine my own beliefs and values. Some of you who have irritated me the most have also been great influences in my life, especially in coming to terms with the bitterness against God and Christianity that the Holdeman church left me with.
Since most of my posts don't come from a spiritual place, they perhaps don't command much respect, but I come from a place of reason, sound logic and intellectual thought that often contradicts a strong faith in Scripture. I guess there's a part of me that hopes that the voice of reason can reach others who were struggling for years in the Holdeman faith as well as challenge other people to let blind faith go for a minute and to delve deep into themselves to find out how they really believe as a person instead of how they've been fed to believe.
If that makes me a homo, then go ahead....use the tag.
Paris, I would strongly warn my children about the Amish and those "Free Churchers"
actually, I will try to instill in my boys a strong sense of acceptance of all people,( including holdemans, lol) We look at people for who they are, not what they are. Our boys are very comfortable with our friends of a different skin tone than us and love visiting their 'two aunties' and with friends whose homes (or beliefs) might be a little different than ours but equal in the fact that they are warm loving homes just like ours.
The school they will attend next year has changed one of the core values they teach from "tolerence" to "acceptance". I was quite pleased with this change.
By the way, one of our friends that are children are very comfortable with is actually an Anglican!!
This message has been edited by twinspapa on Apr 24, 2008 3:32 PM
Oh my goodness gracious!
I said that I feared the gay supporters swing both ways.
And here Steve confirms it.
"Some people fear things or people that are different from them, unfamiliar to them"
"I'd be willing to bet that some of the people who are the most vocal in their anti-gay rhetoric and protestations have never really had much in the way of normal interaction with an 'average' gay person. Then again, some of you probably have and had no idea."
So you can tell he knows the subject matter! Is man love good Steve?
PsyTrancer talks like a homo, thinks like one, acts like one, doesn't deny being one.
Yup, he's gay.
So if a straight is repulsed by a queer that means the straight may have some queer tendencies they are trying to hide!? haha give me a break! So if you round the corner and come face to face with a skunk and you turn and run for everything you got that means you might have a hankering for skunk spray and are just fearful of the unknown? I don't think it works that way. You'd run cause.....well...you know why you'd run, why should I explain it.
"Aside from sharing some of my historical past in the Holdeman church, I like to keep my life separate from the forum, and quite frankly I wish everyone else would to."
You tell me, RC. For those who like that sort of thing, I suppose it is. I'm just not into that sort of thing myself. But, I am not afraid of those who are.
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