Acceptance?
Does that mean may accept "
Holdemans" for what they are...or just make fun?
Just wondering?


In HIM...
A Holdeman

Doesn't that work both ways? calledoutPTL

As a Holdeman I can only see one way. You all should know that by now!!!!

observer 999. And the two shall never meet????? Sadly, so often it takes a tragedy to come together. Then when it afterwards, back to the same oh. Wish it was different. I'm not giving up yet. I feel some day we will worship together and the differences between us won't matter to either of us. calledoutPTL

Your right Grandma, we should accept the Holdemans as they are. Making fun is never good.
I understand your point of view to some degree. I used to try to change my family, hoping they would come to accept me as I was. I found that that is impossible they fear the church more then they love me. It hurts to admit it but it still is true.
I also have hopes of having the walls come down between us all, and us all accepting each other, but weeks like this one cause me to get discouraged with the whole concept.
I went through a situation that might help you understand my side of the fence a little better. We have a member of the family who is in a tight spot, (not something they did just a hard knock in life) and everyone is wondering what is the best way to handle the situation, and no one seems able to come up with help or answers. I know the root of the issue and what needs to be done because this person and I had a long conversation.
In order for this member of holdeman church to be able to move forward they need outside help.
I am too close and too emotionally involved to help, so as the the family and preacher wrung their hands and wondered "what shall we do" I told them that this coarse of action could prevent some serious issues. They talked along with me, listening and agreeing, then snubbed the advise and warned them to stay away from me and the help I was offering. Here out of respect for the fact that they wanted to help and that they were already dealing with the situation I tried to work with them and they turned around and stabbed me in the back, making it seem that I was running to them with information and not someone trustworthy.
I shutter to think of how this will play out, and the pain that everyone will have to go through that could have been prevented, once again.
I like a sucker accepted them as they are, and believed they would come through out of concern for a loved one. I just got kicked in the teeth again.
I am not expelled and they have no excuse to have treated me like they did.
Do I want to make fun of them when they say they care about people? You bet!
Do I laugh when they say they care about the lesser fortunate. I do, because all they care about is having the final word. My advise was good, and they know it, they just didn't think of it first, and the advise came from me so it is invalid.
My Dad used to say put someone where you can love them, I didn't get it then, but I do now.
I am able to love you holdemans when I put you in a category in my mind where my expectations of you are nil. No expectations. period.
May I share how I view them so that I can accept them? -as a bunch of crabs in bucket.
Did you know if you put one crab in a bucket it will crawl out and escape, if you put two crabs in a bucket, they will never get out, because one will always drag the other down.
I have a hard time accepting that people who I love will do that to one another in the name of God no less, but they do, and I am once again reminded of how things go when I do not accept you for who you are, instead of seeing who you could be, the people God has created you to be.
Someone who cares more for another person, then admitting that they (the church) has areas they don't know how to handle.
Granny please understand this about holdeman PRIDE, you back the preacher no matter what, all you think it costs right now is someone else's life being messed up, (besides they aren't perfect they choose to react like they did so they deserve what is coming to them) but it could be your soul in eternity.
Accept that!
Good night Granny!

I'll tell you what you're fighting more than anything Grace, it's human nature. If that's the case, one might as well learn to keep the names, the sects, the labels, all of it, out of it.

There was a lot of passion in your post.

Brent

Yes Brent, there was a lot of passion in there, wasn't there?
You know how I try to get by the labels and all that but I must admit I am having a weak moment...
and big time frustrated.
I hope I can get over it sometime soon!

That's alright Grace, I don't much get in the way of serious passion. I have my own.

Brent

At times I consider myself very fortunate that I was not "born-a-holdeman."
The pain and anguish I've seen dealt to families because of religious differences has caused my heart to ache for them. It was relatively easier for me to make a clean break because family ties were not involved. However I did go through some heartache because some in the church had become near and dear to me. I don't hate them. I hate the system that does so much damage in the name of God, but that has been going on ever since mankind was invented.
I have become very cynical about some that wield and maintain the power by using threats of excommunication and other fear tactics. But, I do not hate them.

"Acceptance?
Does that mean may accept "Holdemans" for what they are...or just make fun?
Just wondering?" ~Grandma

That's so funny. The X's are the ones who don't feel accepted for what they are.

After hearing an X-Mormon talk about the differences between the members of the sect and herself, her comment being that they think anybody who isn't doing what they do is going to hell, I've come to see that as the basic fundamental difference between Holdeman and X-Holdeman. Now you tell me, who isn't accepting who for what they are?

Maybe a more legitimate question would be, "Can we just love each other in spite of the judgment we're placing on one another?" I'm sure it happens to a degree, but realistically it isn't being practiced because of the fear of becoming contaminated, or the concern you will make the X's feel like God accepts them when they aren't members of the OTVC. It won't happen until we can accept each other as flawed human beings, grateful for God's mercy.

Grandma
Your post was fine and innocently asking a point of if they can accept us as Holdemans as we are. I should have added a smiley face to my comment as it was sarcastically addressing an all to common attitude we can present as Holdemans. We have rejected and hurt many people and when they adjust to their new lives we refuse to accept them as they are. This in turn makes it difficult for them to accept us as we are. If we all just focused on love and let Jesus take care of the sin we would all be in a much better place.

Sorry it took me so long to respond.

Grace,

Wow! that post says it all!

If you trust them for what they are! Crab"s" in a bucket!


But like Sinnick says it isn't the people, it is the system, for no idolatry (unscriptural church system) is going to look like Christianity when the whole story is told.

The beauty of holdemanism's unity is found in the fraudulent avoidance that is sinfully and unjustly administered by conference built demons instead of just tribunals and just equitable hearings with provable accountability.

to accept a Holdeman, is to accept they will backstab, and destroy your reputation to those you care about in their ranks, that is just what they "do" for it is the beauty of their idol to do so and I accept that

To accept them is to expect to never get a straight answer for what"sin" you were put out for, they have no answer, and they avoid you because they are afraid of their idol reaching up and terrorizing their life if they don't.

Do you love them? Sure, are you hurt by them? of course, they want you to be! do you accept that? Why "resist"?

but do you want to hang out with people like that?

No way Jose!


In my unworthy opinion they are sitting in there with a system (actually a demonic, satanically inspired stronghold) that is wrong, but they refuse to fix it, because anyone that arises to fix it, will get exed, So the good ones get the boot, and the weak ones become the leaders!

I accept that!





May God richly Bless your day!

Did Elijah make fun of the idolaters?

27* At noon Elijah began to taunt them. “Shout louder!” he said. “Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or travelling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.”
28* So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed.
29* Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no-one answered, no-one paid attention.

May God richly Bless your day!

Grace - good answer.

I was thinking something like this yesterday after a talk I had with the husband. There's no point in continuing to be shocked and outraged and hurt when someone acts exactly like they've acted a million time before. You can accept them and love them anyway, or reject them and put them out of your life. Any other course of action is wasted energy on your part. This is true for Holdemans and non-Holdemans alike.

I need to practise this more.

The crabs in the bucket analogy gave me a grin.

Also - hi everyone. First time posting here, although I've checked in here and there in the past few years.

If we can talk and accept each other for our beliefs. And possibly accept the fact that we both feel a responsibility to God to at least witness to those who are in the wrong. I do not believe in Strong tongue lashings. But it is wonderful too when we do find things that we can agree on rather than work on the differences. And I have long came to accept the fact and respect them for it that 75% of them will not shake my hand nor eat at the same table. At one time there was great resentment for that but God can work wonders with time.

Main Entry:ACCEPT
Pronunciation:ik-*sept, ak- also ek-
Function:verb
Etymology:Middle English, from Anglo-French accepter, from Latin acceptare, frequentative of accipere to receive, from ad- + capere to take — more at HEAVE
Date:14th century

transitive verb
1 a : to receive willingly accept a gift b : to be able or designed to take or hold (something applied or added) a surface that will not accept ink
2 : to give admittance or approval to accept her as one of the group
3 a : to endure without protest or reaction accept poor living conditions b : to regard as proper, normal, or inevitable the idea is widely accepted c : to recognize as true : BELIEVE refused to accept the explanation
4 a : to make a favorable response to accept an offer b : to agree to undertake (a responsibility) accept a job
5 : to assume an obligation to pay; also : to take in payment *we don't accept personal checks*
6 : to receive (a legislative report) officially
intransitive verb : to receive favorably something offered — usually used with of *a heart more disposed to accept of his — Jane Austen*
–ac£cept£ing£ly \-*sep-ti*-l*\ adverb
–ac£cept£ing£ness \-ti*-n*s\ noun

Main Entry:ACCEPTANCE
Pronunciation:ik-*sep-t*n(t)s, ak-
Function:noun
Date:1574

1 : an agreeing either expressly or by conduct to the act or offer of another so that a contract is concluded and the parties become legally bound
2 : the quality or state of being accepted or acceptable
3 : the act of accepting : the fact of being accepted : APPROVAL
4 a : the act of accepting a time draft or bill of exchange for payment when due according to the specified terms b : an accepted draft or bill of exchange
5 : ACCEPTATION 2