Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
39 And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.
(KJV)

I read this chapter today and I wonder, How do we see areself when we read it? Are we the Blind Man who has Now can see? Are we the Pharisee's? Do we listen or read it for others? and wonder how they see themselves? or others? My prayer is that God can open our eyes and we can see ourselves, At least a glimpse of how our Maker see's us.

I for one have read those scriptures and realized I needed much learning.
I went to the leaders of the church where I was atending and began asking
questions .

Perhaps the biggest down fall of my life , accured there after .
The leaders were good to listen and thy said thy would get back to me .
Thy had asked the parents of the home I grew up in , if I had been tought.

Then the leaders came to me and said [ in regards to my questions ]
we talked to your parents You was tought .

Not being a person that could read then , and growing up in that
[ family ?] .

where there was never any family devotions , help with sunday school
lessons , help with other school work .

socilizing with church membere was at a very minimam .
then with there lieing by omission .

Well still to day I have many questions about spiritual life and
social life .
The totally sad thing is , there just to many people like Brent who
totally refuse , to beleave truth matters .

Truth would lead to action, to help those who have asked ,for there
entire lives ,for HELP .

I for one have read those scriptures and realized I needed much learning.
I went to the leaders of the church where I was atending and began asking
questions .

Perhaps the biggest down fall of my life , accured there after .
The leaders were good to listen and thy said thy would get back to me .
Thy had asked the parents of the home I grew up in , if I had been tought.

Then the leaders came to me and said [ in regards to my questions ]
we talked to your parents You was tought .

Not being a person that could read then , and growing up in that
[ family ?] .

where there was never any family devotions , help with sunday school
lessons , help with other school work .

socilizing with church membere was at a very minimam .
then with there lieing by omission .

Well still to day I have many questions about spiritual life and
social life .
The totally sad thing is , there just to many people like Brent who
totally refuse , to beleave truth matters .

Truth would lead to action, to help those who have asked ,for there
entire lives ,for HELP .

I for one have read those scriptures and realized I needed much learning.
I went to the leaders of the church where I was atending and began asking
questions .

Perhaps the biggest down fall of my life , accured there after .
The leaders were good to listen and thy said thy would get back to me .
Thy had asked the parents of the home I grew up in , if I had been tought.

Then the leaders came to me and said [ in regards to my questions ]
we talked to your parents You was tought .

Not being a person that could read then , and growing up in that
[ family ?] .

where there was never any family devotions , help with sunday school
lessons , help with other school work .

socilizing with church membere was at a very minimam .
then with there lieing by omission .

Well still to day I have many questions about spiritual life and
social life .
The totally sad thing is , there just to many people like Brent who
totally refuse , to beleave truth matters .

Truth would lead to action, to help those who have asked ,for there
entire lives ,for HELP .

Reb,

What do you want me to do to help you?

Do you need money, food, clothes or what?

But I can't help you with anything else, and won't.

Brent

Brent

Your help could be just that you would reallywant to know some one and
there situation before you start slaming them down .

There some people in this world who really did need some help .
Yet YOU [ Brent ] seam to thank there is NO one , that was in need.
If some one stumbles it is totally of there own doing .

Brent YOU are 100% wrong and so is the Holdeman church when you/thy cling
to that kind of thanking .

There are many people who did not get the talents you was blessed with .
There for the talents YOU was blessed with , was given you so you could
help people who , did not get that talent .

Talents such as reading , socilizing , understanding church doctren ,
etc.

So when I see you and the Holdie staff and lay persons , come to realize
there REALLY are people who need help , and step up to do so .
With out judgment , then we will have some thing to discuss .

If you really want me to tell you my story I will , [BUT ]
I will have to use names and places to do so .

I have been weating for about a year for one to give me a answer to
a couple questions , - gess what [ I'm still waeting ]

Brent I don't need your money , [ a little would help , but ] I'd rather
starve phicaly thay have you dam me for something that is not of my
doing .

It is the truth that will set me free , for people like you to really
see the complete picture .

So now if you want me to get in to more detail I will , with names .

sincerely Rebel

Reb,

I don't want your story with names, that's gossip to me. We've seen terrible blackmailing revelation and disgracing of people just to reveal them in the most evil way on this forum. We don't know yet how bad people may have been hurt. I don't want your revelations, Reb.

Rebel I'm going to tell you something, the more I look into life the more spiritual it gets and the more the finger points back at me. Did I stumble across this or did I experience it? If I experience it I've faced many harrowing and sobering and humbling and hurtful things. But for 3 or 4 days now you've talked down to me like I'm the villain

Rebel you don't know the shadow of death I've passed through and how it took my blame of others out of me for what was my own life. I seen not to give my life to them by blaming them anymore, so I took and am taking the blame on myself.

You call me a Holdeman and have made me your oppressor. So now I have control over you because you gave it to me by blaming me.

Look my friend Rebel, that's not me, take your blame away from me because I don't want to oppress you, that's not my nature, it's not my belief.

I only defend myself, and because I've got good at my wars I'm all the more the fault, right? Yes! That's what it is.

Reb, the scriptures say to examine ourselves. The Holdemans or Brent can't keep anybody from that if they really want to be honest with themselves.

We all have our faults, Rebel and Brent and everyone else. So it hard to give true blame,

Brent