Does anyone have anyfurther thoughts on this? I find this a very interesting statement?

(1) I think it is quite probable that J. Holdeman was a totally different person then the "legalism" that drove the change at CGCM in the 1970s. He wrote enough about grace, forgiveness, warned of legalism, that proves he had a grasp of the gospel. And he was quick to correspond and share with others. (He also wrote and stood for some stuff that, in my understanding, is not biblical.) My dad who worked in the 1940s on the translation to English of the Mirror of Truth told me after 1975, that the translation was badly done. He suggested it should be redone, by an individual who understood the German of 1860 and who was unbiased. Dad said we likely would be in for some surprises.

Another interesting statement:

I do not wish to embellish what my dad said about the English translation so I will leave it at what I remember from 25-30 years ago. He said; when German statements or a group of sentences were not understood, too often the translators would write them as the church understood the issue at that time. I sensed from dad (and it is reasonable in any group of individuals) that there was tension among them, or perhaps vigorous discussion about the German meanings.

Tension and debate? How could that happen? The H church is united and undivided.

Yup, try finding a word for itchalss in English! Now I don't know how it is spelt, but it means going against the grain or can't stand something. I prounounce it in Mulish.
Then with the etymology playing in here. Also the way words change meaning in a person's lifetime. Transelation experts have a tough job. calledoutPTL

When I said "embellish", I did not want to say more then what dad actually told me on the subject. But, I knew him very well, we were friends and we discussed enough stuff that I knew his over-all view of Bible, church, specific subjects, normal differences in society (and church), how to get along with others... and also how to be true to yourself and what you believe. I will comment on some of the "surprises", but please understand, they are strictly from my view of the history, events, different emphasis over the years, issues and discussions I am aware of at CGCM, and family influence going back to grandpa JTW who was a Manitoba H bishop till the position was eliminated in 1920 (?). I admit my prejudices... There are influences in my life that may color my view, but I cannot push those aside. Also, when one sees later results, earlier events can easily be pointed to as current results. We then may say, ok, now it makes sense to me; what happened there are the issues or agreements or disagreements that drove H to the current spiritual culture. So, here is my biased view of possible surprises... and to many they really may not be surprises.

1. John Holdeman should be viewed as more in tune with the gospel and other believers, then how he is portrayed as obsessed with the organized church. JH view of church should be viewed more as R. Thiessen recently wrote in the MOT, and not "exclusive" as one must conclude from the writings in BD&P.

Also, before he wrote "History of the Church of God" in English, he wrote it in German (published in the German "Mirror of Truth"). In the English manuscript he says that he made some changes from the first German publication. These changes might shed light on JH train of thought in respect to "church". Just how one formulates and adjusts ideas, often give information on current meaning.

2. Certainly, looking at church writings as late as 1950 and as early as the 1880 (?) conference reports posted by Fred, we see a recognition of the universal church; that is the body of Christ where ALL believers firstly belong.

3. JH view of excommunication was different then practiced at CGCM in 1974-85... JH warned of over zealous use the the ban; and the German may make this more clear. Also, the conference reports posted by Fred certainly give different view then my observations of 1976.

4. Baptism; JH may have had a greater recognition of valid baptism outside of CGCM. Immersion was accepted early on, and there was discussion at conference about communicating with others, before making certain decisions on baptism. Fred has posted these.

5. JH may be misunderstood or not understood at all in his view of prophecy and prophetic leanings as a genuine God fearing believer. In at least 5 places, he writes of some future "event" that he foresees, but does not elaborate on it; he says he may say more in the future but any digging and asking I have done has not turned up any clues. Maybe his German writings will give more clues.

For what its worth; the above are some issues that cross my mind.