Why do the Holdemans have the misinster wash the feet? According to scripture it is womens work right?
1Ti 5:10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.
(KJV)
Howie, go to the book of John. Chapter 13 gives the account of Jesus washing the disciples feet.
Verses 15 thru 17 are probably the reason. However, if its women work? They may well use muratic
acid on some of us men !
We do the same in our church; wash one another's feet; men with men and woman with woman. However two years ago, we did bring a third spot in the church, for families to wash each others feet (within a family), if they wanted to.
The traditional Mennonite understanding was to wash each others feet. The current H method came with difficulty for John Holdeman who bent to some other ministers view that it should be the ministers who wash the members feet. JH writes about this... and maybe Fred has posted some ld conference minutes on it ??
Probably John 13:1-17 could be read to support either view, however I believe to wash each others feet puts all on the same level. The RC tradition, (if I have it right) is for the priests to wash each others feet, but the rite is not extended to any laity.
I came accross that scripture and then seeing how different people look at different scriptures I thought I would throw that in and see what the comments were. Thanks for your input.
>>The RC tradition, (if I have it right) is for the priests to wash each others feet, but the rite is not extended to any laity.<<
I'm going off of memory here, but I believe that it can, and often does, extend to laity. The key concept regarding footwashing in catholic Christianity is that of servanthood.
I have never participated in foot washing at church. We only did it I think one time at the Methodist church.
My son did it in youth group just a couple weeks ago. I have recently learned that it was all about servanthood. It was presented as how we as disciples should serve the world through the church. That's what Jesus was trying to get across when He washed the disciples feet.
I’m wondering why this strange custom is carried over into Christianity today. In Bible times they wore sandals and walked on dusty roads. When a guest arrived at a house, it was probably considered polite to wash the feet so the dirt would not be dragged into a clean house. So washing the feet of another was just a practical way of showing courtesy, or servant hood. I really don’t believe Jesus would have asked that this practice be continued as a ritual with no practical value.
The ironic thing is that everyone who goes to a feet washing ceremony will make darn sure their feet are clean before the event, thereby removing any practical value.
It seems to me that Jesus was trying to get the point across that we needed to have a servant attitude toward others. In our day this could be hanging up a coat or pulling out a chair, or whatever it takes to make the other person feel comfortable and appreciated. Or going further, it could mean devoting your day to repairing a disabled person’s home.
I too like what Stan said about servanthood and serving. On the other hand many of these things [such as washing clean feet] point us toward something real and greater than washing clean feet for example.
The question remains; is there any value in the pointers themselves or can all men and women find servant-hood without the pointers. Sacriments point to something real and greater than the sacriments themselves: what's so very important is that all those things that point to higher and greater things never become an end in and of themselves.
The golden calf in the house of Israel pointed men and women back toward the oxen that pulled them across the red sea to freedom; it is easy to get all involved with our past deliverances rather than being totally involved with the Deliverer! That was the singular and real problem with the golden calf!
The middle ages produced all types of liturgicals in European christianity which pointed men and women to higher and greater things. The more illiterate we are the more we need such things and that is not said in any way to denigrate illiteracy.
The flowing hair on the woman is instead of a covering it says, and yet these things being meaningless in and of themselves may indeed point us to the the glory covering coming from the Father to Christ and from Christ to the husband and from the husband to the wife.. The perpetual problem it seems is that men and women value these things as an end in themselves. Immediately these things go from being pointers to simple idolatry. Idolatry is an ill-focus.
So, the question is, why do we need or have these actual rituals in the Christian community? Doug says it correctly; they point to a bigger subject then just the ritual itself.
Take baptism and the bread and cup of communion... (footwashing is debated among believers whether being a useful ritual ). It is not that God needs these, but they are for the encouragement and good of believers. Faith is an intangible thing (maybe a better word then thing); we see the effect of faith but faith itself is like Jesus spoke to Nicodemus of salvation in John 3. The wind moves the trees but we cannot see salvation... or "faith" itself. God saw fit to give us some visual tangible rites, which when even we ourselves are weary or troubled and don't understand life, we can come to God with a tangible expression, and say God/Christ; with this bread and this cup, I tell You I trust in your shed blood and body broken for me; I affirm my trust/acceptance of your gift of grace and mercy for me, and believe my sins are forgiven and praise You for it. For me, when my mind doubts that I really mean what I feel, the Lord's supper is a positive step of affirmation for me.
We do not do these to be noticed by others, but as an expression of our faith towards God, for our benefit. Foot-washing is a visual tangible expression to our bros/sis pointing to our commitment of humble servanthood among each other, as Steven pointed out earlier.
On the other hand does the blind invalid who is bed-fast that can neither speak, hear, read,or write live a less blessed life in Christ than those who can perform leturigals, sacriments, or any other pointer that points to something greater? Should the greater thing simply get all our focus to start with, we could ask? Is the Greater just too hard to get our Spiritual arms around or is it quite easy to do so but we go about making it elusive and hard? These are soul searching questions.
I suppose the question really is this; is our present status in development in the matters of Faith of such a nature, that just to get us out of the woods in the matters of Faith we do well to affirm anything that points to the Greater? Person by person and group by group, must finally be how these type things play themselves out.
Those who worship Him must do so in Spirit and in Truth finally!
On the other hand does the blind invalid who is bed-fast that can neither speak, hear, read, or write live a less blessed life in Christ than those who can perform leturigals, sacriments, or any other pointer that points to something greater? Should the greater thing simply get all our focus to start with, we could ask?
Is the Greater just too hard to get our Spiritual arms around or is it quite easy to do so but we go about making it elusive and hard? Or do those of us who can see, read, write, hear, who are not bedfast simply have altogether many distractions that we wade through? ponder it..
I suppose the question really is this; is our present status in development in the matters of Faith of such a nature, that just to get us out of the woods each day in the matters of Faith we do well to affirm anything that points to the Greater? Person by person and group by group, must finally be how these type things play themselves out.
Those who worship Him must do so in Spirit and in Truth finally!
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 28, 2008 2:51 PM
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