How long is one usually put on repentance if they use that route?
Please pray for my friend, She was visited by a Minister and His wife this afternoon and was told that they would be putting her on repentance. (For seeing me.)
We did meet for a supper once (We ate at the same table.) and once for a few minutes since and have done some communicating on the phone.
How long does "Repentance" usually last in the holdeman church?? I got exed twice years ago and then there was no period of grace but then perhaps I was nothing but filthy rags.
Please not only pray for Her but for the Staff that are dealing her that they can see that perhaps they are not as pure as she is. In fact my belief is that if they cannot see that then God should open there eyes.
"on Repentance" is a funny sounding phrase that has evolved in our church terminology.
read this... this is what it comes from.
Matt:18:14-17 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
The principle that Jesus teaches here is one of restoration. And it ALWAYS needs to be the goal! Because we love each other and because God does not want anyone to perish, we care for one anothers spiritual health. If I am in sin and have not taken seriously my brother's admonition to repent, Jesus says to take several more with you to talk to me (in effort to "gain" me). But if I don't listen to them then Jesus says to "tell it unto the church". If my fellow brothers and sisters agree that I have a problem and they collectively urge me to repent... we have somehow coined the phrase that I then would be "on repentance". In this state, my duties that the church asked me to do (song leading, sunday school superintendant, etc) would be suspended until I would repent and aknowlege my sin. If I do not "hear the church", then would come the sad step of withdrawing church membership from me.
***Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, ***
Paris, I'm sure you didn't mean it this way but your response almost seemed like this lady wasn't worth praying for since she put herself in the situation (I think most of us have no idea if this its even true that she put herself in the situation but you continue writing as if thats the only possibility). You may want to explain yourself better if that isn't what you meant. If it's anything like my situation, I had to be honest so 'the staff' found out about me with full disclosure and I had to face the music, but it was hard. If I didn't have people praying for me I don't know if I could have made it. If what you wrote about this lady to me, I would have taken that as I should have kept everything balled up inside of me so I wouldn't get in trouble. Well, I knew I would get in trouble so yes, I am to 'blame' for the problems I had, but I still needed prayers and encouragement to face life.
I am praying Herman. The time frame of repentance can vary greatly. I've known of people who have been on repentance for years. I think in situations like that, the staff realized they made a mistake and don't want to expel the person but are too ashamed to admit the mistake and release them. I'm actually glad I wasn't placed on repentance. By the time that 'option' came around, I didn't want any connection with the CGCM anyway, so was glad that all ties were broken immediately.
**And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.**
It's okay to advise someone in open sin to repent. It's best for that person in open sin to repent and turn away from his or her sin. To make it the legal thing of setting one on repentance speaks clearly of legalism.
My wife and I were pastors of two different groups for years and when an open sin would manifest, we spoke to it privately. It only became open knowledge if the open sin was perpetuated. Never did any person think that they were not freely Loved! People know when they are loved.
One young man began to openly live out of wedlock with his girl friend. He was marked as walking disorderily by asking him to refrain from the sacriments of wine and unleavened bread. This was done for one reason; to eat and drink the sacriments when living in open sin would only further this fellow's spiritual death and trouble. This young man fully understood and embraced this. Real truth frees us to feel loved!
Biblically this type thing is done for the one's benifit who is openly sinning.
On the other hand when this is done religiousely it is done to keep the house clean; the one is a display of God's New Covenant Love while the other is a type of legalism such as practiced in the old covenant house of Isarel.
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jul 7, 2008 9:14 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jul 7, 2008 9:08 AM
Well my response to Howie and his friend did come out kind of wrong,,I have apologized to Herman,, ,,I don't know nothing about why the Holdeman and the X-holdeman do what they do and it shows...
Sometimes I guess I just can't put any emotion to this stuff because it all seems so silly. I hope that's not hurtful, I don't mean it's silly to be treated in these kind of ways, It just seems like a different planet the whole holdeman thing.
>>This young man fully understood and embraced this. Real truth frees us to feel loved!<<
Doug, that sounds like a good and loving way to approach that situation, and I noticed the young man was not offended in what was asked of him, and still felt the love. But the holdeman mind would like to inquire further. Did he amend his ways or what was the outcome?
This young fellow did not amend immediately and on his own left the group of believers. All were sad that he left so far as I know. We loved him in Christ!
Today he is married and walking with the Lord in some weakness and in some strength; we hurt ourselves by our sins of the flesh. They reach into our futures sometimes and cause self-doubt. Forgiving ourselves means so much!
I knew a Holdiman lady who when she was 16 years old got into a relationship with a married man. She got rather old and has gone on now but she never really forgave herself for this. This was her word. Her life became very ridged and legalistic I believe because of not being able to forgive herself! She's with God and I believe this because her inner heart was right.
Now this is really ridiculous. Since I know Xep has not a chance to explain this, maybe someone
else can. I fail to understand ,holdemans, how Hermans friend could get "on repentance" from just one
single visit from the minister and his wife? Looking at the very scriptures Xep provided, nothing
was brought before anybody, how could you then say holdemans, that she was justified ,Biblically to be
put on repentance?
Or did I misunderstand the procedure, Herman?
Herman, it makes no difference if you were filty rags, that verse applies to everybody, its just doesn't
seem the holdemans apply it to everybody.
This message has been edited by Naz20 on Jul 8, 2008 8:37 PM This message has been edited by Naz20 on Jul 7, 2008 7:50 PM
See here is the scenario. Herman is single, Herman is also EX. Friend is single? friend is also H. so Herman and Frannie meet for supper and converse on the phone, this constitutes a date with an unbeliever. This is a real no-no in Holdiland. Of course if they were about 40 yrs younger it might bring about more chats than immediate church work, but the final result would still be the same. No going off by yourself with the opposite sex, no matter what the circumstances.
Of course they don't seem to find out about the teachers that get phone calls at all hours of the nite and keep their fellow teachers up with their noise or the ones that have been hanging out together until they simply run off together, then get exed, or the groups of 2-3 girls that go out with 2-3 guys (16-19 yr old or so )and no adults, that seem to be passing muster many places. And then they wonder what has happened to their youth. first off they do not have a true sense of salvation and what God means to them in the first place and unless they are really serious, many of them could not tell you today what God really means to them. they could however tell you how important the church is.
Hopefully that clears up Herman's dilema in your minds.
>>Herman is single, Herman is also EX. Friend is single? friend is also H. so Herman and Frannie meet for supper and converse on the phone, this constitutes a date with an unbeliever. This is a real no-no in Holdiland.<<
>>I fail to understand ,holdemans, how Hermans friend could get "on repentance" from just one
single visit from the minister and his wife? Looking at the very scriptures Zippy Zeppy provided, nothing
was brought before anybody, how could you then say holdemans, that she was justified ,Biblically to be
put on repentance?<<
Nas: I too, for one, was wondering about this. A close reading of the Matthew 18 passage would indicate first of all that the 'sister' would need to sin against someone. By going out for dinner with our friend Herman, she hasn't done any harm to anyone. But, for the sake of argument, if we ignore that part of the passage (or claim that her actions constituted a sin against someone - who this someone is is pretty unclear), the next step would be for the wronged party to approach the 'sister' and express their concern, and then follow the progression as the passage indicates if she did not make amends to the harmed individual. Having the bushmaster and his wife waltz into her home to tell her she is 'on repentance' (wherever that term comes from) has no basis in scripture.
Xep, I owe you an appologie for not properly using your name as you post it. I removed the smart elec
name in my post and put in your proper name. I'm sorry, and will use your name as its supposed to be.
Howie, my husband was on repentance for 4 years after they x'd me. He was having fun with it, he would pretend to be sincere and they really didn't have any reason to X him, but he finally got bored with it and asked Verle Peters if he believed in a personal salvation or a group salvation. That gave them what they needed. They gave him 24 hours to "come up with something" and he really didn't give a hoot so he didn't. They expelled him saying he had a foreign spirit and VP said he had the coldest spirit he had ever seen.
I have seen a lot of things in my day, And my eyesight is rather poor. (35-20 with glasses)and I have never seen a spirit.
Someone I know when the H ministers aproacheed him and mentioned that they thought he was very sincere when they had reacepted him and now he was not following the way he should - did tell them that it was April fools day when he was reaccepted. Needless to say they did not see any humor in that.
I have recieved 3 phone calls the today and yesterday letting me know that I should be joining the Church rather than leading someone away from it. I do believe we are following God's leading. (My friend is staying over at my Pastors house) I want nothing but the Lord`s will in this relationship and I know that many of the H. would not believe that is possible. (Especially since I was known as a stud at one time.) Prayers that we may follow God's leading and guiding would be greatly appreciated.
Howie, I'm praying for you and your friend. One thing I'd like you to consider tho. You may not realize that your comments on here may jeapordize her relationship and communication with her pastor and others in her church. Please keep that in mind.
Thanks Oh so much for your prayers. God has been blessing us more than one can immagine. And A. T. Lowoen I find out you are so right, Yet with my experience in a worldly environment it is beyond my comprehension how a computer with intranet - even with a filter, can be acceptable when to God and his church and radio, T.V. is outlawed. Perhaps someday we will understand???
Herman
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