Last night I was having a conversation with my B-I-L who is a minister (presently in a Baptist church). He brought up the parables of the tares and wheat and the leaven hidden in the flour.(1) He went on to say that the church (in general, not just the H) has tended to place a great deal of focus on being 'right' and keeping itself 'pure' at the expense of loving people. He made the point that in the parable of the wheat and the tares, the servants of the master were told not to remove the tares from the field, but that at harvest time the master would see to it that they were separated.

As regards the second parable, he was saying how churches are so afraid of having 'sinners' in their midst (we all are sinners, of course, but only certain sins warrant shunning, apparently) for fear of the effect of the sinner on the (non?)sinners. But, if the kingdom of heaven is like a bit of leaven, it has the power to affect the whole basket of flour, so why should the church be so quick to remove people and why is it not more confident in the power of God?

Now I know the Holdeman church really isn't too interested in the teachings of Christ on these sorts of issues(2), but I thought I'd post it nonetheless, for the benefit of the 'brathren' who might be reading this.

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(1) The relevant passage is posted here.

Tares among Wheat

24 Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 “But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went away. 26 “But when the wheat sprouted and bore grain, then the tares became evident also. 27 “The slaves of the landowner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 “And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29 “But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 ‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

The Leaven

33 He spoke another parable to them, “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened.”
34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable. 35 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet:
“I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES;
I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.”

The Tares Explained

36 Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38 and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. 40 “So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. 41 “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 “Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.


(2) A twisted misrepresentation of St. Paul's instructions to one particular church in 1st century Corinth fits their MO better, of course.

Steven,

33 He spoke another parable to them, “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened.”

That is the proper context!!!!

The leaven is a good thing and not a bad thing. Why do we read it that a little sin in the church will leaven the whole church. NO!!!! It says the "kingdom of heaven" like leaven, will affect everyone and with everything it comes into contact.

Do we add leaven on purpose into flour when making bread? Or do we try to keep or take it out?

We are the leaven and our lives should raise everyone to new levels in Christ. We should not be punching the dough and deflating it and taking it to new lows, thus rendering the leaven useless.

"(2) A twisted misrepresentation of St. Paul's instructions to one particular church in 1st century Corinth fits their MO better, of course."

"The leaven is a good thing and not a bad thing. Why do we read it that a little sin in the church will leaven the whole church. NO!!!!"



1Cr 5:6 -8 Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.


C'mon, guys. For ones who insist on reading Scripture to mean EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS, and IN CONTEXT, can you honestly tell me Paul is saying (in these verses) that leaven is a good thing? Christ compared the Kingdom of heaven to leaven in a good sense, Paul uses leaven in another sense (leaven of malice and wickedness;) and compares sincerity and truth with UNLEAVENED bread. So are you saying it can only be used in a GOOD way? The Scriptures clearly use leaven in both senses. How do you interpret what Paul says, Steve? (You brought up the verses) Please note: I am not interested in a big long sarcastic anti-H diatribe, just answer the question.


ETA: And, no, I am not saying, as you will accuse me if I don't add this, that "Paul trumps Christ" ROFL I am just saying that the Scriptures use leaven in both senses to bring out a point. To say that reading 1 Cor 5:6-8 as it says is "twisted" is simply ludicrous. Whether it is referring to excommunication or not, it is clearly used in a negative sense- something that must be purged, personally or otherwise.

C'mon, guys. For ones who insist on reading Scripture to mean EXACTLY WHAT IT SAYS, and IN CONTEXT, can you honestly tell me Paul is saying (in these verses) that leaven is a good thing?

The old leaven was living under the law. Purge that thinking out of your system and let the leaven of grace and the new covenant permeate your life.

"The old leaven was living under the law. Purge that thinking out of your system and let the leaven of grace and the new covenant permeate your life. "

Mark, I disagree. Paul says "Your glorying is not good" before he speaks of the bad leaven. Earlier in the chapter, he refers to the Corinthians as being "puffed up" (glorying) about the fornicating man. To me this is quite clear. Taken in context, the leaven is clearly the man Paul speaks of and/or his sin. He was addressing that situation. And I don't think you could logically say that what Paul said ONLY applied to THAT man and THAT church at THAT time.

Living under the law can certainly be a leaven, I just don't see that that was what Paul had in mind in that particular chapter of Corinthians.

Steve, if your implication here is that it is just fine to fellowship and take communion with anyone living a heretical belief, or someone living in sin, then you have a false concept of Scripture.

Axel: I was actually not referring to St. Paul's use of leaven as an example. Of course leaven has been used as both a positive and negative example in scripture. I was thinking more in terms of the Holdies' favourite (part of a) verse - "With such a one not to eat".

TR: So what WAS Jesus saying? (Not that it really makes much difference to the Holdies).