It seems some terms get bandied about and used as pejoratives by some, especially those who have doctrines against cussing, getting mad, and calling people names. Now I got to thinking about what a OTVB is. Personally, I think the term is misused, and overused. I don't think staunchly defending a belief is the same has having a OTVB. I believe the energies are very different. For example, Qwerty and Hank both are staunch defenders of their respective religions, Hank regarding trusting in the merits of Christ, and Qwerty living a separated plain lifestyle. But neither of these guys (in my opinion) have ever struck me as having a OTVB. What's what the difference? I thought of two things right off the bat of what defines a OTVB. 1) You are willing to commit some type of harm to another person for not sharing your belief. 2) The belief is clung to with an energy which is separate and stronger than the belief itself, but is anchored in the authority of a group. As I have previously mentioned, Hank and Qwerty cling to their beliefs with unshakeable tenacity, but I cannot imagine either of them harming another for not sharing their beliefs.

Well according to this, neither Hank, Qwerty, nor I have a OTVB, ....but I know some that do.

Thanks Scott; for your kind words. I affirm that I would not hesitate to eat at the same table as you. And I would share the bread and cup of the Supper with you... if you believe in your heart and confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus with an honest heart of faith, trusting in the merits of Christ.

And if opportunity presented itself and it was prudent, I would be happy to put on a hat, wear suspenders and not shave for several weeks to do the same with Qwerty.

You made a good case for Qwerty and Hank, but you sure piledrived yourself into the ground. You described yourself to the tee. Every time someone writes something that goes against your OTVB you do not hesitate but you blast away with both barrels in the most demeaning type of way.

You are the forum terrorist whose purpose is to intimidate and inspire fear into all your enemies and get them to be quiet. The sad thing is that too often it works. Even your followers fear your verbal flailings enough to never cross you anymore. The God you serve is not the "God of the milky way", but rather the (very alone) god of self.

I am royally tired of it.

Well, you certainly are entitled to your opinion. Would you mind emailing me and telling me your name, and also if you are a Holdeman? I would like to examine your credibility and biases a little if you don't mind. Are you related to, or a friend of a relative of my ex-wife?


I gave up a beautiful new home, beautiful ranch and farming operation to get away from Holdeman influence. Have you ever heard of anyone leaving their farm and business to get away from mine? Have you ever heard of a forum developed so people could vent their outrage and pain about how I have treated them and destroyed their families?

Monte, it's just that your used to soft inflection in voices emanating from emasculated bearded ones. Scott has more integrity in his little finger than most congregations do as a unit.

Saying that, I'm not at all afraid to cross wires or ideas with Scott. It's quite refreshing and intellectually inspiring. In fact I think we had a fairly good debate on the phone a while ago and I'm not even sure who reproved whom but we seemed to come away in unity.

So what I'm saying Monte, is grow a set of cajones and make a point instead of whining behind a fake name.

Hank, I would love to see you in the "beard and hat"!! lol