A relationship that begins with our Messiah by a contrite faith in his name, is beautiful indeed! There are people who develop a controversy about the name, believing we ought to go back to the Jewish name Yeshua when thinking in terms the Messiah. I’m sure that that is fine if one is a Messianic Jew. The Messiah’s name was indeed Yeshua in Hebrew and it means that this [the self-existent and eternal one has come to save]. If in our hearts that is the one we approach with a contrite heart in faith, we indeed access this true Messiah!

Once a thing of the Spirit is reduced or distilled down to knowledge which we can handle, this is when truth readily becomes dangerous to us. It can also be a glorious ladder! Once a thing of the Spirit is reduced to an insight which then can be voiced with words, is when it’s readily a dangerous thing. It is so easy to worship our insights!

It is quite natural to develop a relationship with our insights if we begin to think our insights are real. Our insights are never real, they only speak of reality! They may well be true but they are not the [reality] of what we are seeing! The Bible is the many insights of spiritual men and women. The Bible itself is dangerous if we begin to worship it. The Bible itself can easily become the tree of knowledge of good and evil. How we position ourselves before the scriptures determines which tree we are eating of!

Every insight of spiritual knowledge is indeed dangerous until we look beyond this knowledge and see the living God who inspired the insights! If we worship or commune with our insights we will judge those around us by this information. If we develop a love relationship with our insights we soon become the literal bafoons of the planet and yet may declare openly that we have a love for the truth.

Our insights are our thoughts. We must distinguish between our thoughts and reality! As soon as we think our thoughts are the reality, we are no longer sound of mind. Clinically, we are now insane. Insanity is described by the idea that a person thinks one’s thoughts are the reality. A sane and sound person understands that ones thoughts are simply that.. There’s much insanity in the religious spectrum. The [reality] of the Truth of God lies out beyond our thoughts! That’s the life changing Truth we Love when we Love properly!

The ego easily attaches itself to what a spiritual truth becomes once it’s reduced to knowledge. In our self-confidence we now commune at the tree of knowledge. We become unsound. We are forbidden to go there. We are called to Love and to soundness of mind! The Messiah is the truth and we access Him by contrite faith in His name. The Truth of God is a higher quality thing when it’s in the heavenlies than once it is verbalized on the earthen plane. This is what pulls us upward! Once these truths are known with the mind the Truth itself becomes vulnerable in much the same way our Messiah became vulnerable once we could handle and see him! A love for Truth so long as the Truth of God is in the Spirit is beautiful and life-changing, but as soon as this Truth can be verbalized and handled, it is so easy to value it as one’s knowledge. It is easy to place one’s love upon that knowledge now, and actually think we love Truth in the proper way!

doug64 wrote: "A relationship that begins with our Messiah by a contrite faith in his name, is beautiful indeed! There are people who develop a controversy about the name, believing we ought to go back to the Jewish name Yeshua when thinking in terms the Messiah. I’m sure that that is fine if one is a Messianic Jew. The Messiah’s name was indeed Yeshua in Hebrew and it means that this [the self-existent and eternal one has come to save]. If in our hearts that is the one we approach with a contrite heart in faith, we indeed access this true Messiah!"

-------

Who is the Messianic Jew today?  Paul testified, "He is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in The Spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of The Only True GOD."

Today, who has received that "circumcision of the heart, in The Spirit and not in the letter"?

Truth is that the so-called "jew" in the so-called nation of "israel" today is but clinging to that which has "decayed, waxed old" and "vanished away" indeed and Truth. And so it is that they believe in death, and because they believe in death, they believe death is an answer, so they, liken to unto all systems of religion that are of this world, have become very adept at killing.

And so, what of so-called "Messianic Jew"? Most certainly not of this world and it's systems of religon!

Once again, Paul testified, "He is a Jew, who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in The Spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of The Only True GOD."

Not "in the letter"! What is in "the letter" of what this world calls it's 'bible", concerning The Name of The Messiah?

Consider, those 'bibles" translated from the pagan greek manuscripts. Why is it that most all of those 'bibles' transliterate The Name of The Messiah as 'jesus'?

That question needs be asked because 'jesus' is the transliteration of The Messiah's Name from the latin language, not the greek! The correct and proper transliteration of The Messiah's Name from the pagan greek manuscripts would be 'jesous' in modern day english.

So who, or what, gave the translators the liberty to change the greek "scriptures" as they did when they used the latin, rather than the greek, transliteration for The Messiah's Name?

So who is following "the letter"?

Those who would call The Messiah 'jesus' or those with a "cicumcised heart", "in The Spirit", and not "in the letter"; those who would, in The Spirit of Truth, call The Messiah, Yeshua!

-------

doug64 wrote: "Our insights are our thoughts".

What you mean is "Your in(ward)sights are your thoughts"!

Our Father, HE yet communes inwardly(Spirtually) with HIS Children!

Sadly, if one's 'heart' has not been 'circumcised', such a one can not commune inwardly(Spiritually) with The Only True GOD, Father(Creator) of ALL, and such a one is subject to their own thoughts, their own deisres, their own will.

Yet there is hope!

For Miracles do happen!

Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth" for their in(ward)sight will be enligtened by "The Light" that is The Messiah.

Peace, in spite of the dis-eases(thoughts) that are of this world and it's systems of religion, for "the WHOLE world is under the control of the evil one" indeed and Truth.

And Truth is never ending.......

My friend;

It doesn't matter to one's heart if one understands the correct pronouncation of the Messiah's name. But what does matter is that this person knows who he is addresing in his heart; for with the [heart] man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation! This really is not complicated.

The heart must be circumcised and the proud flesh cut away so the pure sperma of God does not mingle with the flesh! When this part of our inner man is circumcised we become a Spiritual Israelite! We have now been grafted into the olive tree as a branch, we understand this.

If the name of the Messiah is pronounced Yeshua or Jesus or Jesous matters not to the heart from where we believe unto righteousness. Emphasis on any form of these pronouncements is of the mind and therefore this emphasis is of the letter. We can move away from the letter toward the Spirit of Grace!

The mind makes a big ado about wordings and phonics, but not the heart. It's not with the mind that a person comes to God, although a person must first believe that He is. The initial belief does occur in the mind.

Does Deridder La. strike a note? I may have seen you there, I'm not sure.

Unconditional Love; -doug

Hear oh Isarel the Lord thy God is one God and he alone shalt thou serve!

Indeed God manifests in three distinct ways!

Faith will not create religious systems which determine what righteousness is by way of precepts and ordinances.

His righteousness is imputed to us when He is engrafted into our hearts!

Sadly doug, you remain a holdeman catholic at heart.

Yet, even as you abide in such darkness, there is hope!  

For Miracles do happen                   

                 "Let There Be Light"

"In The Beginning" The Creator(Our Father) said,
     "Let There Be Light, and There Was Light"

                    "LIGHT Begets Light!"
    "The Beginning of The Creation of GOD!"

And the revelation that The Messiah received of
The Creator and gave unto the apostle John bore
witness to The Truth that The Messiah, was
"The Beginning of the Creation of GOD(Our
Father, Creator of ALL)"! (Rev 1:1, 3:14)

And The Messiah bore witness to His Brethren
when He testified, "My GOD is your GOD and My
Father(Creator) is your Father(Creator)."(Jn 20:17)

The Messiah testified "I have sent My angel to
you with this testimony for the assemblies. I am
the root and the offspring of David. I am the bright,
Morning Star(Light)"! (Rev 22:16) ) Peter testified
"We have the more sure word of prophecy; and
you do well to take heed, as to a lamp shining in a
dark place, until the day dawns, and The Morning
Star(Light) arises in your hearts."(2Pt 1:19)  "But
you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood,
a holy nation, HIS own special people, that you
may proclaim the praises of HIM who called you
out of darkness into His marvelous Light."(1Pt2:9)

And the evening(darkness) and The Morning
(Light) was the First Day." (Gen 1:5)

"Let There Be Light"!

"The Beginning of The Creation of GOD"!

It is very important to both know and experience
The Messiah as He Is, Was and always Will Be,
and also to know the "glory He had with Our
Father" before He was born in "the likeness of
sinful flesh". (John 17:5, Rom 8:3) For what The
Messiah Was and Is, Is that which He will always
Will Be."The Only Begotten Son" of "Our Father"!

First, let me simply state that I do not believe the
"catholic" and "christian" theo'ry'logical doctrines
concerning "The Only True GOD, Father ALL". For
they "image"ine a three-headed "god" they call
their "trinity", or they declare their "christ" to be
their "god and father", or they believe that The
Messiah was but an exalted messenger(angel)
or prophet.

John The Baptist testified, "And I saw, and bare
record that The Messiah is the Son of GOD(Our
Father)."(John 1:34) Peter testified, "You are The
Messiah, The Son of The Living GOD(Father of
ALL)"!(Matt 16:16) And the Ethiopian eunuch
testified, "I believe that The Messiah is The Son
of GOD(Our Father)". (Acts 8:37) "Seeing then
that we have a great high priest, that is passed
into the Heavens, The Messiah, The Son of
GOD(Our Father), let us hold fast our profession." 
(Heb 4:14) "These things are written so that you
might believe that The Messiah is The Son of GOD
(Our Father)". (John 20:31) The Messiah testified
that He was "The Son of GOD", and that His GOD
 was "The Only True GOD(Father of ALL)".
(John 10:36,17:3)

And The Messiah also testified that He was the
"Son of man" and "The Light of the world".
(Matt 26:64, John 8:12)

It is needful to believe that The Messiah Was, Is
and always Will Be "The Son of The Living GOD",
and that there is but "One GOD, HE WHO is
Father of ALL". (Mat 16:16, Eph 4:6) The Messiah
bore witness to His Brethren when He testified
after being "raised from among the dead", "My GOD
is your GOD and My Father(Creator) is your Father
(Creator)" (John 20:17)

Is The Messiah's GOD and Father your GOD
and Father?

Who are The Brethren of The Messiah?

"Let There Be Light"

Once again, It is very important to both know and
experience The Messiah as He Was, Is and always
Will Be. The Messiah simply testified in John 17:5
"And now O Father, glorify Me with YOUR own self
with the glory that I had with YOU before the world
began".

Prior to that testimony The Messiah had testified,
"Yet a little while is The Light with you. Walk while
you have The Light, lest darkness comes upon
you: for he that walks in darkness does not know
where he goes. While you have Light, believe in
The Light, that you may be the children of Light."
(John 12:35-36)

And the apostle John testified: "In the beginning
was the Word, and the Word was with GOD, and
The Word was GOD. (John did not testify that
The Word is GOD)The same was in the beginning
 with GOD. All things were made by Him, and
without Him was not any thing made that was
made.  In Him was Life; and The Life was The
Light of men. And The Light shined in darkness;
and the darkness comprehended it not. There
was a man sent from GOD, whose name was
John. The same came for a witness, to bear
witness of The Light, that all men through Him
might believe. He(John the baptist) was not that
Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the True Light, which enlightens every
man that comes into the world. He(The Messiah)
was in the world, and the world was made by
Him, and the world knew Him not. He came unto
His own, and His own received Him not. But as
many as received Him, to them He gave power
 to become the sons of GOD, even to them that
believe on His name: Which were born, not of
blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will
of man, but of "The Only True GOD, Father of
ALL"." (John 1:1-13)

It is needful to realize that The Messiah testified
of "The Only True GOD" in John 17:3, and so it is
that The GOD and Father of The Messiah IS,
WAS and always WILL BE "The Only True GOD".

"The Only True GOD" is "Father of ALL".

And "The Father of ALL" is "Our Father", HE WHO
IS "The Only True GOD" and Father of The Messiah
and His Brethren.

And the apostle John testified in John 3:17-21:
"For Our Father sent not his Son into the world
to condemn the world; but that the world through
Him might be saved. He that believes on Him is
not condemned: but he that believes not is
condemned already, because he has not believed
in the name of the only begotten Son of GOD(Our
Father). And this is the condemnation, that Light is
come into the world, and men loved darkness
rather than Light, because their deeds were evil.
For every one that does evil hates The Light,
neither comes to The Light, lest his deeds should
be reproved. But he that does Truth comes to The
Light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that
they are wrought in GOD(Our Father)."

In John 12:34 the people asked, "Who is this Son
of man? Then in John 12:35-36, "The Messiah said
unto them, yet a little while is The Light with you.
Walk while you have The Light, lest darkness come
upon you: for he that walks in darkness does not
know where he goes. While you have Light, believe
in The Light, that you may be the children of Light.
The Messiah spoke these things, and departed,
and hid Himself from them."

Simply, "In The Beginning" The Only True GOD
spoke The Word, "Let There Be Light", "And there
was Light"! "And there was evening(darkness) and
there was morning (Light), The First Day". (Gen 1:5)
Certainly such "Light" was not "natural" light, for
"natural" light, the sun, moon, and stars were not
created until the "fourth day". (Gen 1:14-19)

"In the beginning", "The First Day", The Father of
All created "The Light", without which Creation and
Life, as we now know and experience it, could not
have been.

The First Day, "The Light", The Messiah, "The
beginning of the Creation of GOD(HE WHO is
The Only True GOD and Father of ALL)"!
(Gen 1:3, Rev 3:14, John 17:3, Eph 4:6)

And "The Only True GOD" created all "things" by,
 through, and for "The Light", The Messiah, "The
Son of The Living GOD" and "Son of man".
(Col 1:15, Eph 3:9, Mat 16:16, Mat 12:32)

LIGHT begets Light!

And "The True Light which enlightens every man
coming into the world", was born as a child
destined to be The Messiah. (John 1:9, Mat 1:21)

The Messiah, "The Light of the world".
(John 8:12, 9:5)

The Messiah, "The firstborn of every creature
(all creation)". (Col 1:15)

The Messiah, "Begotten of Our Father",
"The firstborn among many Brethren".
(Heb 1:5) (Ps 2:7) (Rom 8:29)

The Messiah, "A servant of The Only True GOD
(Father of ALL)". (Isa 42:1-7)

The Messiah, "The Lamb of GOD".
(John 1:29,36)

The Messiah, "The firstborn from among the dead".
(Col 1:18)

Once again: "In The Beginning" Our Father, "The
Only True GOD" spoke: "Let there be Light, and
there was Light"! The Messiah, "THE BEGINNING
OF THE CREATION OF THE ONLY TRUE GOD", 
"the firstborn of every creature(all creation)". (Gen 1:3, 
John 17:3, Rev 3:14, Col 1:15)

Thanks Be To "Our Father"!

The Messiah, The Creation of "The Only True
GOD, Father of ALL"! (Rev 3:14)

The Messiah, "made so much better than the
angels"! (Heb 1:4)

The Messiah, "The Light of the world"!
(John 8:12, 9:5)

"The Lamb of GOD", "The Light of The New
Heavenly Jerusalem"! (Rev 21:22-23)

Paul experienced "The Light " on the road to
Damascus. "And it came to pass, that, as I
made my journey, and came near unto
Damascus about noontime, suddenly a great
Light from Heaven shone round about me.
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice
saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why do you
persecute Me? And I answered, "Who are
You, Master"? And He said unto me, I am
Yehowshuwa'(Yeshua, Jeshua) of Nazareth,
Whom you persecute. And they that were
with me saw The Light, and were afraid; but
they did not hear the voice of Him that spoke
to me. And I said, "What shall I do, Master"?
And He said unto me, arise and go into
Damascus, and there you shall be told all
things which are appointed for you to do.
And when I could not see for the glory of
that Light, I was led by the hand into
Damascus." (Acts 22:6-11)

Paul also testified, "At midday I saw in the
way a Light from Heaven, ABOVE THE
BRIGHTNESS OF THE SUN, shining round
about me and those who journeyed with me.
And when we were all fallen to the earth, I
heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying
in the HEBREW tongue, Saul, Saul, why do
you persecute Me? It is hard for you to kick
against the pricks." (The Messiah could not
have told Paul, "I am jesus" for He spoke in
the "HEBREW tongue") (Acts 26:13-14)

Paul saw "The Light" that was The Messiah
and he was blinded(naturally, not Spiritually)
for a time. Now when The Messiah was in
the "likeness of sinful flesh", born as "the
Son of man", He could only reflect "The
Light", liken unto the moon which but reflects
the light of the natural sun.

"Let There Be Light"

The Messiah, "The Light of the world"!

And consider the natural light provided by the
sun, which was Created on the fourth day.
Does not the natural light of the sun reveal
outwardly, all the earthly, natural things?
Consider what happens when that which you
thought was clean is exposed to the light of
the sun? Is not the least outward particle of
uncleanness readily seen in the light of the
sun? And so it is with "The Light" that is The
Messiah. For His Life, "The Life", reveals
and exposes all the uncleanness in "our"
life, the life that is of "our" own creation,
which is the "I(ego, id)" in all of us, the
product of "our" own vain "imag"inations!
So it needs be that "The Light" penetrates
deeply, even into the innermost recesses
of the heart, "rightly dividing the soul and
spirit", exposing all the darkness that the
"I" in all of us did not want to "see"!

Yet for such a cleansing to begin one must
"experience The Messiah(The Light) and
The Power that raised Him from among the
dead"!(Php 3:10) Oh, there are many who
know of a "messiah", yet who has
experienced "The Light"? For "The Light"
was "The Beginning of Creation" both the
old, which was natural and earthly and The
New, which is of The Spirit and Heavenly.
Those who "love this world and it's things"
yet desire that which "decayed, waxed
old and vanished away" (Heb 8:13) They
are of those "whose 'god' is their belly,
and whose glory is in their shame, for
they mind earthly things". (Phlp 3:19)

Sadly, those who "love this world and it's
things" yet love darkness more than The
Light and they will abide in the darkness
they loved forever ;-( (1Jn2:15,Jn3:19-20)

Sadder yet, systems of religion that are of
this world, such as "catholicism", "christianity",
"judaism", "islam", etc., have so perverted
 The Testimonies, that today, as in the two
thousand or so, years gone by, "The Way
of Truth is evil spoken of"! All because of
the theo'ry'logical, heretical doctrines that
are of men! And especially those
theo'ry'logical doctrines which seek to
define "The Only True GOD, Father of All".
(2Peter 2:1-2)

All such doctrines are but the product of
mankind's "imag"ination and mankind's
"imag"ination is destroying and perverting
Creation(land, air, water, creatures, Light,
Truth, Love, Peace, Joy, Hope, .etc.)

Yes, sadly ;-( Creation is being destroyed
by self-willed men who could care less
about that which is of The Truth(What Is,
Was, and always Will Be), and care even
less about those things which they can
not comprehend apart from their
"natural" senses and mental processes ;-(

And The Truth testifies, The Creator "will
destroy those who destroy the earth(HIS
Creation)"(Rev 11:18).

Sadly, in this wicked world, those who
seek profit will naturally overcome those
who do not ;-(

Yet, There Is Hope!

For The Life is of The Spirit!

And Miracles do happen!

And Faith rejoices against profit(greed)
and theo'ry'logy(logic)!

Hope is there would be those who experience
The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The
Truth" for they will "see" "The Light".
(2Thes 2:10, John 8:12, 9:5)

And they will receive peace, in spite of the
dis-ease(religion) that is of this world, for
they will clearly "see" that "The WHOLE
world is under the control of the evil one".
(1John 5:19) And they will clearly "see"
things as they are and not as "imag"inative,
world-loving humans would have others
believe them to be.

They will clearly "see" "The Light" that is The Messiah, He Who was:

THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

THE ONLY TRUE GOD IS FATHER(CREATOR) OF ALL!

Truth is never ending.......

Mr Francis what I see in you is that you try to intimidate people. Please get over it and just be a real person who loves his God! I suspect that this once again will make you [sad] when thinking about me. Sadness at that level is meant to intimidate, we sense the spirit of it. If it were real sadness you experience you would be over burdened with sadness. You are not sad, you seek to intimidate.

I'm sure there has been many hurts along the way by religious orders of people but you can learn to forgive and forget as we all must do. The real seed of God in us seeks to forgive all men and tends to be gracious with all men. Sometimes we may be legitimately blunt, but never mean.

Many things you speak of are true but the attitude simply must change for you to be effective.

see you; -doug

And sadly, it is quite clear that this forum is of the catholic(holdeman) spirit, of which i want nothing to do and so it is that i do not believe i will return after posting this farewell.

I believe i have done what needs be, and that is to share that which i have seen(experienced) and heard(received).

Hope is there would be those who heed The Call of The Only True GOD to "Come Out of her, MY people". All who do so will flee babylon(this world) and it's systems of religious theo'ry'logy and especially those theo'ry's of the "imag"ination that seek to define The Only True GOD, Father(Creator) of ALL.

"Your blood is not on my hands".

Thankfully, Truth is never ending....... 

And sadly, it is quite clear that this forum is of the catholic(holdeman) spirit, of which i want nothing to do and so it is that i do not believe i will return after posting this farewell.

Francis, are you saying that you cannot handle honest disagreement with your strange ideas?  How about some honest forthright dialog, rather than just a bunch of insults?

>>And sadly, it is quite clear that this forum is of the catholic(holdeman) spirit, of which i want nothing to do and so it is that i do not believe i will return after posting this farewell.<<

You will be greatly missed. NOT!

That was well said Brent D.

If a person is predisposed or even called to teach, a person must hear every view and do so willingly as one who is indeed interested in what his fellows have to say. Those are our inner thoughts and they speak to who we are. Love will not run rough-shod over one's fellows. It could happen by accident.

We need each other in real terms. We do not need side-shows.

I have known some very sincere Roman Catholic believers, precious people. Many systems are bad systems and I was reared in a system that was not a good system at many levels although many of the people were good people. If there are problems in religious systems then we ought to speak clearly into them if given the opportunity and do so in a way that teaches rather than slam-dunks them. Only when we can do this graciousely can we say that we have come out from among error. Until then we are still among them, at least so far as our emotions are concerned.

We need the Brent D's. We need the Brent U's. We need the Amos types. We need the Scotts who draw clear lines of demarkation in the sand. We need the Paris types. We need Cupcake who calls it like she sees it. We need Sirus to keep us thinking. We need Stan to keep us honest! We can be so dishonest. We need Lock-lady to remind us that much truth is in written form. We need Hank to compare history with contemporary thoughts. As soon as I start this I am sure to leave many out so I question the wisdom of it, but you can see what I mean.

It is easy to develop a messianic complex and become quite unlovely. So let us be lovely!

Francis ......


H....MMMM



farewell!

Sort of reminds me of the time about 2 weeks before the H "got" me, I told the youth group they needed to have us a "going away party", because the their loving compassionate preachers were fixing to kill us. (with a good spirit) They didn't believe it though, so they they never had the party.

Kinda hurt my feelings!