Brent D. ... I don't particularly care right at this specific moment what democrats or republicans think about abortion. I do care about the ideas that YOU are trying to pass on to other people.

"A law that permits abortion does not cause abortions, any more than a law that permits guns causes deaths."


I disagree for several reasons.
Because of the medical field....
Did you know that doctors can be held negligent in cases where the baby "may" be born with an abnormality or it may threaten the patients life IF they don't provide the patient with information that the patient can terminiate her pregnancy. If abortion becomes illegal than the doctor can no longer be held liable for not recommending an aboriton. Now you may say.. how does that relate to anything. There are many times when dr.'s are providing this information to their patient AND the baby can still be born just fine with no harm to the patient or the baby. Unfortunately though, many women think that their dr. has all the answers so they automatically believe that if the dr. said that their baby may have defect then they automatically believe that to be true and believe the dr. to be recommending that they have an abortion. Just the same as if the dr. recommends an abortion to a patient who has a disease or sickness and it may threaten the patients life, then many women believe they need to have an abortion.

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9603/articles/goodwin.html

I disagree because of the minor area..
It is legal for minor teenagers to have abortions without their parents being informed. If a teenager is forced to tell their parents about being pregnant and trying to have an abortion than it can eliminate some of the abortions. It can also help prevent them from thinking they need to have an abortion in the future.

I also disagree because of the birth control concept.

Many women use abortion as a birth control method. Because abortions are considered acceptable by many BECAUSE it is legal. This in itself causes more abortions. If something is illegal than it helps to elimate many of these abortions BECAUSE most people tend to be law abiding.

If abortion is illegal then the abortion dr. would have to go underground and he would then have to do this illegally and it would open him up to being faced with fines, imprisonment, etc. So yeah... a law that permits abortions does cause abortions.

And.. then bringing this back to the forum issues... the Holdemans have laws in their church that permit ex-communication and holding avoidance on a person... does that make the person who SAYS they believe differenty BUT they don't make a stand against it.... in actuallity a support of the excommunication and avoidance laws?

does that get into.. faith without works is dead.... . kinda like you can say something .. but if your actions don't actually line up with what you are saying..... then which one does a person believe?

Sorry if I'm being a broken record, but I cannot overemphasize that all abortions involve a personal choice.  I'm sure you're right, if abortions were illigal, there would be fewer of them.  The word "cause" (in my mind) means to "force".  Gravity causes an object to fall, and so forth.  So, does a law permitting abortion "cause" someone to have an abortion?  No.

If you want to make that argument, then you have to apply the same logic to guns.  Does a law permitting guns cause people to murder other people?  No.  If guns were illegal, would there be fewer murders?  Yes.

Now, explain to me how you can support the legalization of weapons when they "cause" so many murders?

Do you think that the people that support abortion rights actually want people to have abortions?  Answer honestly.

Brent D. .. so you equate the word cause with force?

"If you want to make that argument, then you have to apply the same logic to guns. Does a law permitting guns cause people to murder other people? No. If guns were illegal, would there be fewer murders? Yes. Now, explain to me how you can support the legalization of weapons when they "cause" so many murders?"

BOY.. what a comparison!! Owning a gun to abortion... Well.. abortion is used for only one thing... terminating a pregnancy... AKA killing a baby. GUNS can be used for other things NOT just used for murder) i.e. protecting people from harm and hunting for food.

Do you think that the people that support abortion rights actually want people to have abortions? Answer honestly.
The short answer is no with a but....
I believe that many people are deceived into thinking that abortion is a right that is needed in case of some horrible circumstance happening.. i.e. rape, possiblity of death of mother, or abnormality in the baby. With that being said.. I think that most people who support abortion rights want to have that option available to them in case they ever find themselves in a pregnancy situation so that they can try and justify their actions.

Cause and Force
The defnition of cause is
1 a reason for an action or condition : motive b: something that brings about an effect or a result c: a person or thing that is the occasion of an action or state ; especially : an agent that brings something about d: sufficient reason <discharged for cause>

the definition of force is
(1): strength or energy exerted or brought to bear : cause of motion or change : active power <the forces of nature> <the motivating force in her life> (2)capitalized —used with a number to indicate the strength of the wind according to the Beaufort scale b: moral or mental strength c: capacity to persuade or convince <the force of the argument>

this would agree with the definition of cause

or another meaning of force...
violence, compulsion, or constraint exerted upon or against a person or thing

If you mean it that way.. well yeah.. than nobody is tying women up and performing an abortion on them without her consent.. then.. no.. no one is doing that

"A law that permits abortion does not cause abortions, any more than a law that permits guns causes deaths."


I think what Lark is trying to say is that the original analogy is seriously flawed. Guns are nouns/things while abortions are verbs/actions. "Things" don't have any moral consequences but actions always do.

So, you might say...

A law that permits ABORTIONS does not cause abortions any more than a law that permits MURDER causes murder. (or, to avoid unintentionally linking abortion with murder, you could substitute, say,...a law that permits ABORTIONS does't cause abortions any more than a law that permits DRIVING ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ROAD AND ON SIDEWALKS causes DRIVING ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ROAD AND ON SIDEWALKS.)

or...

A law that permits SURGICAL TOOLS does not cause abortions any more than a law that permits GUNS doesn't cause death/murder.


...and be more accurate, but then neither of those have quite the intended persuasive power of the first.