7* ¶ The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray.
8* Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.
9* Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.
10* Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God’s grace in its various forms.
11* If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
12* ¶ Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you.
13* But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed.
14* If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.
15* If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.
16* However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.
17* For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
18* And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
19* So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
If you find yourself agreeing with Fred you will likely feel a twinge of conscience. That's not because Fred is wrong but rather because you have violated your conscience by agreeing with Fred way down on the inside. Conscience is formed in all of us by conditioning and programing; conscience is not the Spirit of God
The conscience deals with the letter while the Spirit of God deals with Life and Peace! These are totally different forms of governance and they both operate in the human race. The conscience is in us to guide us until Christ comes in us, at which point a greater form of governance manifests! This is the Spirit of the living God! Gal. chapters 3 to 5.
This does not say that you will observe perfect attitudes in this forum all the time. Some have been very hurt by the letter. The letter is a hard-object way of governing.
If you judge matters merely by a standard of perfect attitudes, that is your conditioning ruling you.
Thanks Doug, I don't believe a holdeman can actually honestly disagree with me. I am forced by the political correctness held in this forum to basically prove any statement before stating it, so my writing style has tended to being somewhat unreprovable.
but this verse stood out to me
If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler.
Notice that a "meddler" is in the same category as some other fairly bad stuff?
The problem I found as a member in there is that many people in there found comfort and solace in the idea of 'meddling" into my affairs (as well as everyone else they kicked out), I suffered for their meddling, and then when I exposed them and stood still, instead of repenting they gave me the jack boot!
This is one of the problems in lying about the authority of conference to make rules instead of having an agreed upon membership contract, for the conference authority is a deception, so all authority that flows from it is founded in lies, and enforced by treachery, thus "meddling" in institutionalized.
I found it impossible to respect the ministry in there when I knew them to be busybodies in other mens matters. And I simply refused to shut up about it when I caught them and they didn't like it, for it made their movements look bad.
A meddler in other men's matters is a sneaky [and often religious] form of character assasination. It's a dishonest way to elevate oneself over another person. This can ruin one's life, at least temporally. This can ruin one's position. This can ruin one's job. This can ruin the value people have of one another.
This dark sin certainly ought to be named among the serious violations of God's Spirit. To violate God's Spiirt is to violate unconditional Love!
There's a mighty shaking going on! Let it shake and let those things that cannot be shaken, remain!
a dishonest way to elevate oneself over another person
And the problem with assuming an authority over another that is not yours naturally, such as toward your sons and daughter, grands and nephews, nieces ect, or your contractually such as when you have a written agreement, you have to use "bluff", (as they say in poker), And exactly how a holdeman can honestly think a good and righteous fruit will arise out of a deceptive devise such as bluff or coersion, is simply beyond my realm of understanding.
my guess is that it is beyond theirs too, so they say you have a "bad spirit" if you in any way touch the deception, for if your touching it is allowed, well then they are proven deceptive which is proof they aren't in Christ, so to stay in Christ, they kill anyone touching their deception rather than stopping it!
An assumed authority [must] use bluff. I used to assume an authority in poker playing back when, and my authority was indeed bluff. I got pretty good, not to blow my own horn. The only authority there is is that of God himself if it were known. Any other authority is secular or temporal i.e. unreal. What we can see is temporal but that which we cannot see is eternal!
God's authority in the church is never over people. That denies free moral agency. The assumed authority over believers is nicolaitan in nature and God hates it. Leaders rule by example, it says.
God's authority is over sin, sickness, disease, and devils. We do not manage sin, sickness, disease, or devils of ourselves. He does and He can do this through those who are full of Faith! Never do we have authority over the believer. Sin, sickness, disease, and devils cannot be managed in that way. Those who assume so, fall into many errors of which you speak, Fred.
We can retain a man's sin or we can remit a man's sin. We do well when we remit a man's sin. To retain a man's sin is unforgiveness which may play itself out quite righteousely under the guise of an assumed authority. This authority is predicated upon and anchored in, precepts and ordinances. The pharisees would have stoned the lady taken in the act of adultry without saying anything about the fellow. Jesus who Loves and remits sins says; I do not condemn you just go and sin no more. When you're at the point of the threat of death you are quite happy to go and sin no more, if forgiven. The system of precepts and ordinances was nailed to the Cross, by Jesus. The authority of that realm received the same treatment i.e. the Cross.
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Sep 16, 2008 4:46 PM
mat 12 1-21 12:1* ¶ At that time Jesus went through the cornfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some ears of corn and eat them.
2* When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”
3* He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry?
4* He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread--which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests.
5* Or haven’t you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?
6* I tell you that one greater than the temple is here.
7* If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.
8* For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
9* Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue,
10* and a man with a shrivelled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”
11* He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out?
12* How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”
13* Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other.
14* ¶ But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.
15* Aware of this, Jesus withdrew from that place. Many followed him, and he healed all their sick,
16* warning them not to tell who he was.
17* This was to fulfil what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
18* “Here is my servant whom I have chosen, the one I love, in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the nations.
19* He will not quarrel or cry out; no-one will hear his voice in the streets.
20* A bruised reed he will not break, and a smouldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
21* In his name the nations will put their hope.”
Matt 12:22* ¶ Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.
23* All the people were astonished and said, “Could this be the Son of David?”
24* But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebub, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”
25* Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.
26* If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand?
27* And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges.
28* But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29* “Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30* “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters.
31* And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
32* Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
33-48
33* “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognised by its fruit.
34* You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.
35* The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him.
36* But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.
37* For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”
38* ¶ Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you.”
39* He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40* For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41* The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.
42* The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.
43* “When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it.
44* Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order.45* Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”
46* ¶ While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him.
47* Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48* He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?”
This message has been edited by bawar on Sep 19, 2008 8:35 AM
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