What I'm about to relate, without revealing it, I know better than to let it get me down. But that's according to my own power; and that only works in the smallest things with me anymore. Everything else seems to be out of my hands. So this new apparition is beginning to concern me.

I don't know if this is the place to talk about it to a people like this, but I try things and pay the price to find out. I don't mean that bad against the forum people. I got to many sobering things in me right now to be taking jabs at people, or what I rather should say is more like I'm just trying them. But none of that is important to me right now. None of the religion here will even touch my troubles. And again I don't mean that to dig. My own religion in the past didn't touch my other problems of this nature. But I will say, the really religious might say I just need to trust God, or turn it all over to Jesus, or you know how all those saying goes. But those types of statements are worthless to me. People mean good when they tell you that, but those things are easy to say when there's all the time in the world for religion. Real problems and afflictions take up to much time and there's no time for religion or its work or anything else as far as that goes, which real troubles aren't only a religious problem, it takes on your whole life with force.

Not to get side tracked here, but I jotted something down in my notebook yesterday in regard to having no time. It was spitting little dabs of rain all day, and when it would I just sat in the pickup and watched, or wrote this once not even having time for the rain......When you have no time for anything and you're loaded up with work according to all your old ways and habits, then if you change your old ways and habits, you find you have spare time again, but that spare time get loaded up too, and pretty soon you nearly despair until you see what it was all for. And indeed what you see is what it was for, and then you're elated.

But let me go on here. One can fall into such denial, and there's so much psychology in the mind. But when the gauges are in and they don't look good, what else is there to believe? Look at the way marks, they attest to your concern. So even if it's not true, the reality appears to be able to fool you. People I'm talking about spiritual hardships I've learned to fear and detect. When spiritual things are coming down the road at you, one sees how they cherish the easy life and don't want to go up the road anymore.

People may see all kinds of problems in me, but I have no other problems when a spiritual problem arises in my life. It dwarfs everything else. This isn't the first time I've been faced with this kind of thing, and even now it's not as big as a couple like things in the past. But I see it growing to that and it worries me. Especially when you see the faith you developed in the past to overcome with, may not work this time. If that's the case, the only thing I can chalk it up as is that this new spiritual trial will have to be overcome in another and more purer way, which I don't even know if I'm capable of, and how I see it now would be terrible hard to survive it if I didn't, though I might get some relief through temporal means, which I take hope in but know better than to give in to that, which put me back in what appear to be a do or die situation. But I do hold out for the Lord and have not become bitter.

Brent

I'm not sure what kind of a spiritual problem you're referring to, but it seems to me that spiritual problems have to be overcome by spiritual means, just like physical problems are overcome by physical means, financial problems are overcome by financial means, and so forth.  So, to overcome a spiritual problem, you have to summon the spiritual "means" to deal with it.

I'm thinking of some examples of this from my own life.  I want to believe in God, but I often have a very difficult time believing in the unseen and unknown.  So that is a spiritual problem for me.  To overcome it, I have to somehow summon the spiritual means to counteract that problem.  In that case, it is a willful act on my part to summon enough faith to overcome my lack of belief.

I could think of other examples, but you get my drift.  When a spiritual problem looms, what are the spiritual resources that you have to draw on to overcome it?  The challenge I see is for the person who does not have the power of God in their life.  What resources do they really have to draw on to overcome spiritual challenges?  I'm not saying you don't believe in God, but I'm just posing this as a thought.  You have to have means to overcome problems.

This brings up a question in my mind...would an atheist or unbeliever ever have a "spiritual problem"?  If so, what would it be?  And how could they ever overcome it?

We talked about this kind of stuff in our bible study wed nite. and came to this conclusion that in order to have victory and rise above your struggle you must have something to draw on in the first place. there needs to be a spiritual basis in your life to over come with. and yet I also think that many times God uses deep trials to bring us to Him. Sometimes a person just has to reach the very bottom of them selves to be able to look up and find the God who is willing and able to keep you thru all things. Sometimes we get too busy and lose sight of the important things of God and He sends something into our life to draw us back to him.
The foot prints poem and song are very special to me, because so often I have been in places where I felt alone and can now look back and see that God was there thru it all and I was not alone.
Just like yesterday, I spent some time arguing with myself because I wanted to talk to someone when I was having such a struggle. and then I thought to myself I must keep God the first thing here and several times just got down on my knees and then that song came for me and it totally changed my way of looking at the day. And I felt to share it with you all simply because God changed me thru the day. He was there for me. and then I find that I not only have a God who cares but a host of beloved friends along the way, too.
I pray that you too Brent can find your way thru this struggle you are having and God gives you the victory and you overcome it. Be Still and Know that I am GOD.

And He will show you many blessings in the midst of the storms.

Love and prayers, Locklady

Brent, the finding is in the searching. When we are searching for God, we ARE finding Him. The hurting (but not always) is the healing. To accept the loss, is the to get it back.

And those who say they have found it, lose it.

Hank I like that;

I too think in terms that ever-attaining is the journey, but when we think we have attained something it goes away. God himself is elusive when we think we have corralled him. Funny thing there.

Like sanctification; if we think we have attained it, it goes away because real sanctification is a thing of the heart and as soon as we make it into something we can get our minds around it, we lose it. We may not fall back to swearing and crack smoking but our heart has lost it and the righteousness we had attained now decends to that of self or that of the mind.

The reformer Martin L. thought he was going to explode at a point before a certain Spiritual breakthrough occurred in his life. God is pressing us, I suppose it's called the wine-press. Surrender seems to be a huge part of the journey when we're in the wine press of God.

My apology; I must have hit something too many times and I do not know how to undo it.

Hank,

I'm not searching. I'm more at the Jonah and Moses stage running away from God because I see how terrible the truths are. Do you see why religion can't touch this?

Brent

Brent.. On the Jonas and Moses stage.. what did they do? The knew the truth, ran from it, and then what?

Lark,

Well the Lord tried to kill Moses and a whale got Jonah, that's what happened.

Brent

This is what the man said!

Just yesterday I heard a discourse where a man said that he had been fighting God. Moses did this and Jonah did this Jacob did this. Even Jesus while wrestling with God said; if possible let this cup pass from me in the Garden. Fighting God we often do also if we're honest on the inside. Any person who says oh no I would never do that, is in simple denial and walking in, internal dishonesty.

This same man in yesterday's discourse continued on by saying; I fight with God because I know that He will win!

Religion cannot help us! Religion says this; to fight God is neither nice nor good but truth says this; to fight God ensures that He will win! Jacob fought an angel of the Lord all night and guess who won! Moses fought God and guess who won! Jonah fought God and guess who won! You see religion jumps the gun and tries to do the God-thing before God does it on the inside of us. If we are this religious we are very sickly.

We're simply too religious and too nice most of the time. We are so righteous we stink in this condition and therefore God can do nothing with us of real substance!

I don't know if this helps anyone but I can tell you that I have fought with God. Sometimes I have run. Funny thing how He outruns me.

I think I know Brent pretty well, or at least I used to. Nothing written here comes close to touching what ever is bugging him. But, if you don't understand, at least try to learn to listen in silence, and try to understand without trying to help.

Scott there are folk who will reveal even a self-defacing issue, just to see the ignorant responses of men and women. Then in secret be amused in their elevation above those who respond.

That's a type of evil that's nearly incomprehensable and can only come from the heart of those who are indeed dark. I sincerely hope that there is no one like that on this forum.

Thanks Brent; I''ll add; If we admit we are running, then we are reaching our goal. What is your goal ?

Obvious to those who have read you since the beginning do not think your goal is religion... but maybe our hearts deceive us ?

I don't understand how someone can have a problem that is beyond touching.  That just means that it has not been properly quantified and expressed.

I should have made my thought more clear. Want I want to say is that sometimes a man feels like Job in that when he is really backed in a corner, his friends can't help him, but just sit there and try to feel and understand. Nothing against Job, nothing against the friends, just a problem to big for words. I've been there. I know what that feels like. NOt saying that that is what Brent is facing either. I really don't know.

I know what you mean, Scott. I got the feeling that Brent is reaching out for a human touch rather than actually seeking answers. Whether you like it or not, Brent, I'll pray for you. God has strong arms.

Hank, my only goal is to fulfill what I was born for. Then I can leave this natural life behind that I love so much. You know people love this life so much they're not in any hurry to get out of it and go to heaven, a much better place than here. So I figure if I can get this life out of me I won't have a problem with leaving it behind. Then maybe, just maybe I can accept heavenly things.

Scott said it right on 9:06 AM. As much as I disagree with him {and they are honest disagreement}, he at least understands some things about human character.

Hi VS, you're right, I'm not seeking answers, but they'll come!!!

Brent