Regarding this subject it is interesting how Genesis 3:22 reads, "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become AS ONE OF US, to know good and evil: ..." which verse reveals that the God Head including the Father and Son have the knowledge of good and evil, and that Adam and Eve now also were discovering it, although in an evil way. Could this Scripture mean that before this time man was in a innocent state only knowing the good, and not really knowing that evil even existed? Young children often are shielded from knowing the evil that exists in our world, and in this way they are innocent not knowing both good and evil. This verse by saying "...Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: ...", shows that the Father and the Son, had this knowledge and thus in that respect it is not something that is evil in it's self. Note, regarding this verse, the numerous English translations I looked up as well as the Greek read the same.
I realize some or many relate the knowledge of good and evil as going by knowledge rather than by the Spirit, but does that align with God and the Son having the knowledge of good and evil? Although we clearly are to be lead by the Spirit rather than be legalistic, that does not mean sincerely desiring to learn what is good and evil, is wrong. If honestly seeking and being aware of what is good and evil and seeking to live within that framework is like eating of the forbidden tree, what about the many Scriptures through out the Bible that teach good knowledge, and encourage knowledge and rightly dividing the Scriptures?
Yet I do not mean to totally throw out the possibility that this tree and the knowledge of good and evil, could relate to knowledge being a wrong reason to do good, as it is better if we do good simply because God has made us good rather than because of knowledge. Yet because of the infirmity of our flesh, I do not believe in our earth life, we can condemn incorporating knowledge as a helper to help us do good. I believe if knowledge of good and evil is ever to be a condemned as against God's real plan as an aid to help us do good, it can only be after the resurrection and we eat of the tree of life and thus become so Holy by nature, that we no longer even need to know what is good and evil, because we simply then will always automatically do what is good. Yet how does this application of the tree and condemnation of knowledge, align with God having the knowledge of good and evil, and has nothing to do with Him doing good because knowledge rather than because of being good?
May God help us not to be like those in the following verses;
(1 Ti 1:5-7) "Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm."
Remember if we can't explain the truth with simple words, it likely is not the truth, but rather big words likely are merely confusing and deceiving ourselves as well as others. May God have mercy on us, and may we thank Him for them, or none of us would be justified.
This message has been edited by AmosB1 on Oct 26, 2008 6:33 PM
Amos, your heart is telling you the Truth then you seem to vasilate and wonder. We are of such nature that once we wonder, we are likely to wander.
God indeed has the knowledge of good and evil. We are forbidden to walk by this tree because the righteousness we enjoy comes from the Spirit alone within us, who indeed has all this information. The Holy Ghost is given us to encourage, exhort, and reproove us in the matters of righteousness! Our privilage is to receive the Holy Ghost, the gift of God!
To walk by the knowledge of righteousness rather than by the Spirit of righteousness, is to compete with God for righteousness. That is what the Adams did in the great transgression and this is still the greatest temptation known to mankind.
This is a temptation in the realm of presumption. David said this; "Keep back thy servant from presumptuous sins: let them not have dominion over me, then shall I be [upright] and I shall be innocent from the [great transgression]."
God made man [upright] but man has thought out many inventions. Self induced righteousness by way of knowledge is one of them.
We have done so much of this historicaly that we see little or no harm in it! That I might be found in Him having no righteousness of mine own which is of the law. This was the profession of Faith of the apostle Paul.
edited for clarity
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Oct 27, 2008 6:45 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Oct 26, 2008 9:39 PM
Has anyone read the book by Rick Joyner called "There Were Two Trees in the Garden"? I am just getting started on it. It talks of the tree of knowledge being legalism and the tree of life being the Spirit.
***Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, ***
I maybe am not getting the main idea here, but if I am following...Does Scripture not idicate that Jesus himself was learned, that the scribes and pharisees (in the temple when he was 12) were very impressed with his wisdom/knowledge?
The Bible also says they 'perish for a lack of knowledge'. Time and time again we have watched people getting deceived and drawn away because they are not discerning. We are to 'study to show ourselves approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly diving the word of truth." and to be able 'to give an answer for the hope that lieth wit in us...to evry man' THat takes studying.
The Holy Spirit is not going to magically bring stuff to mind. He brings back scrpiture we have studied and memorized and gives amazing wisdom in situations, but the closer we are to Him (God), which comes from spending time with Him in His Word, the clearer the asnwers will be.
Besides, which of us are ever so 'clear' that we only EVER hear the voice of God's Holy Spirit? Even strong believer's can have times of harboring sin and times of wanting to do their own thing were the 'leading ' they feel is not from the Holy Spirit but from our own lust...I think it's in James chapter 2 where it talks about this...not sure right now, my little children took my Bible out of this room...don't have time to get another one...sprained foot takes me too long right now.
What was being addressed when speaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, is pursuing righteousness and the approval of God by way of implimenting knowledge rather than by the gift of Righteousness that is given the believer! To self-apply what is thought of as a guideline to righteousness is religious self-life or self-righteousness. Most of the time when self-righteousness is referred to, an attitude following self-righteousness is being addressed.
The born again believer is actually a new creation of Righteousness! There are those who seem to be impregnated with the gospel but not born of God's Spirit. The old ways of sin are no longer desired by those who are born of God! The strength of the flesh may trip us up at times but that is no longer what we want and that's because we are indeed a new creation! Therefore the school-master of good and righteous knowledge that lead us toward Christ is no longer needed but actually becomes a subtraction from the Spirit if we continue in that vein. consider Gal.3:24-25. Jusitfication and approval by God is an on going consciousness of the believer and it's always by Grace through Faith.
Of the other trees in the garden you may freely eat but not of the one of the knowledge of good and evil. The Adams had been walking and talking with the Spirit of God heretofore. That's a life-giving command of God to men and women in this state of affairs.
It is not altogether clear what the other trees are that we have full permission to eat of once we're walking and talking with the Spirit of God, but they very likely are other forms of knowledge such as the arts and the sciences. "Thou mayest freely eat of these". To remain ignorant in these realms is not a blessing of God as some sectarian groups hold.
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Oct 31, 2008 1:48 PM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Oct 31, 2008 10:29 AM
(Ho 4:6) My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee.
(Pr 2:3) Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. 10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul.
(Pr 8:10) Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
(Pr 14:7) Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.
(Pr 18:15) The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge.
(1 Ti 4:13) Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. 15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
(2 Ti 2:15) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(Col 1:9) For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
(Lk 11:52) Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
(Jn 5:39) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
(Ge 2:17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
(Deception 3:16) Because of Genesis 2:17 we know knowledge is a forbidden fruit and we should not honor or seek knowledge as all the other verses advocate.
Amos there you go: please stop confusing the issue at hand.
You quote good and precious passages.
What we have addressed here is the error of trying to get the approval and acceptance of God by the self-application of righteous knowledge. If you do not agree with the Gospel of Jesus then come out and say it.
The Amish and Holdiman Mennonite gospel is quite unclear in this very important matter. How clear are we of those unclear gospels?
God will not accept the righteousness that happens in our lives by the self-application of righteous knowledge. Many in the old covenant had falen prey to this type of thing, but not all. Many are falling prey to this type of thing in the New covenant times as well, but not all.
The righteousness the Father accepts is that of His Son and that is all! This Righteousness by Covenant, is imputed or accredited to our account when we are born of God! Romans chapter four and James chapter one twenty one speaks to this. He himself is engrafted or implanted into our hearts! Christ Jesus is all our righteousness, we can rest in Him! "Let all those who have received the Spirit make sure that they walk by the Spirit".
Nothing we accumulate in the matters of knowledge will add to His righteousness within us! Nothing. Christ in us the hope of glory. It is not Christ on the printed page that is our hope of glory!
Once the heart is made holy and pure by the Spirit of the Lord and the washing of His life i.e. His blood, nothing can be added to increase the quality of this righteousness, this approval, or this justification!
Spiritual knowledge for other reasons than for righteousness, approval, or justification is fine and good, it is much needed and we ought to pursue this but for altogether different reasons than approval or righteousness. If this is what you mean Amos, then we indeed are on the same page. I hope we are because the page is a glorious page!
Any spirit that says that Christ is not come in the flesh, is an antichrist spirit. 2 John 1:7-9. There is a line of demarkation as to who is of Christ Jesus and who is of those who compete with Christ Jesus! The singular way to compete with Christ Jesus is to embrace a righteousness that's acquired by the knowledge of good and evil. We have idolized the knowledge of good and evil at this point. "Little children keep yourselves from idols" John says. There is a reason this tree is forbidden even though God created it and placed it in our midst. Partaking of this forbidden tree for righteousness and approval by God plunged the church into apostasy in the dark and middle ages. The anti-christ spirit raged while the man-of-sin was openly revealed in the house of God.
The anti-christ spirit does not rely upon Christ Jesus who is engrafted or implanted into the believer for one's Righteousness! The anti-christ spirit does not rely upon the Righteousness that has been imputed to the believer! By adding to this Righteousness this spirit competes and even denigrates this true Righteousness! There's a line of demarkation drawn between the Christ Person and the knowledge-for-righteousness person.
"That I may be found in Him having no righteousness of my own, which is of the law." the apostle proclaimed.
We do well to pay great attention to the doctrine of Jesus!
edited for clarity
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Nov 2, 2008 5:06 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Nov 2, 2008 4:48 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Nov 2, 2008 4:35 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Nov 2, 2008 3:27 AM
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