A long time ago I stumbled across a concept in art......discovered it totally on my own, and then had it affirmed later be some writers and artists I had read or come across their ideas of art, or had simply observed the inconsistencies between the artist life and their art.....that if the art is good, the art itself was a lot more pure or righteous than the creators of it. Many artists live debased and in debauchery, being hypocrites in their own art. But I see this concept extend into religion too. Some of the main writers on this forum have seen deep spiritual truths, but they're a million miles away from living them. That we write so much, means we probably have art and passions in us too, and sure enough, on a second look, it is there. In the art of our music or writing styles, or even in our visions, I see purer things than our life attest too. So depending, a lot of what is written on this forum is spiritual unsound, religious and extremely effeminate. There's no judgment or suffering of correction for the temporal life. This is religious and effeminate, and testifies nothing to what can be observed in real existing life. There is terrible harrowing judgements and experience in the world right now today, and hardly none of it is known by the religious and effeminate in their comfortable churches and homes, leisurely living, medicine, material stuff, religious books and theology. They know nothing of God's true judgements and correction. But the scriptures say the whores will enter into the kingdom first, and they will.

The Holdeman church's OTVB is another good example of a doctrine being purer than the living of it. It's a spiritual concept badly presented and hardly lived. No one can be devoted to their belief or have hope in it without believing it is the one true right way. I might add this is the only way a person's belief can ultimately be tried. One has to be slapped in the face with it after they've so diligently believed in it. That will humble them and make them see that whatever they believe isn't necessarily the truth. So I don't think the Holdeman church believes in that doctrine very much or they would have been hit with it by now and sent on down the road to be yet tried in deeper places of their hearts. Or either they really have come to the highest place in life, been slapped many times, abandoned many beliefs, and been through that all. To have a honest belief {I didn't say right or true} and not believe in it's one trueness, is utterly impossible. You have to believe in what you're doing before you realize it. To have a belief and deny its one trueness, is a kind of defection of your belief. It is like pissing in your own bed.

If the Holdeman church would get the "visible" out of the OTVB doctrine, it would be more righteous and the first step to overcoming it. Because anything eternal is not by appearance. Even Jesus' appearance wasn't eternal. He told Mary not to touch him because he hadn't changed, and he's not apparent here today. So unless the Holdeman church can say, don't touch me, I'm not changed yet, or unless they can haul their church to heaven, they're not the eternal Church. They can't be more visible than Jesus, and Jesus isn't visible here today, so how much less are they here and visible?

But to be honest, I want to look at this art and doctrine concept from the point of God. Did God create something more pure than himself? I don't see how. But God is the greatest Artist. Natural creation and the drama and complexity of life attest to this. But this concept could account for how God created evil and then made it pure. This would be the greatest artistic achievement ever in that the artist was or became as pure as his art. So maybe our art and doctrines are purer than ourselves, and what we really are called to do is live them, not just create them or espouse them.

And people, this is what I see in the scriptures from Moses to David, to Jesus to Paul. They lived the pure things they saw, and therefore were great saints and artists. But to be blunt, most of what I see on this forum and in religion in general, is beggarly, religious, effeminate living, and hypocrisy of the pure things known and believed.

But you may say about me, he don't preach life giving things to us, he don't preach grace to us, his preaching condemns us and angers us. I've heard it a 1000 times, but it's all beggarly and effeminate accusations. Go live your doctrines and art, and you'll find out that not ounce of what I preach is remotely against you. You'll see I'm more of a man with a heart and love than what appears sometimes. I think there's one woman on here that somewhat understands that about me, and that's VS. But then she recently accused me of "only being contentious for the sake of being contentious". She must not fully understand me yet, because I don't have time to be a religious trouble maker. VS is an artist that needs to live her art more, then she wouldn't have wrote that about me. Scott understand me to and is an artist himself in more ways than one, but he needs to discredit me, and to me it's wicked to the core.

None of what I wrote means I'm as pure as my doctrines and art. I confess, I'm a hypocrite sometimes. But I see my hypocrisy and strive and struggle daily against it, and hope for a much purer and consistent life and Life.....both temporal and eternal.

Brent

Hey Brent, after a period of lying fallow, I have started to paint again. Maybe I'll get better insight and discernment. I noticed even today that if I was going to make this painting worth more than something to entertain myself, that I was going to have to dig a little deeper. I wouldn't mind at all if my art were greater than the sum of who I am!

And VS, I still really do want one of your painting. I think it will speak to me.

Gene sent me one of his gourds, and it is beautiful.

Brent

Brent, in the bible I see a beauty beyond compare, I see a relationship with a higher power than me, one who cares, and understands, and actually guides.

In the world, or in this life, I see good and evil, but I also see I have the ability to "choose" that which I will embrace.

I really wanted to 'understand' how ammonia refrigerators work, i even asked God to help me learn, I also sought out advise, but many of my 'teachers' knew principles but none had actually "arrived" at making cold with a flame. I simply gleaned a layer of understanding but didn't rise to the highest plane of "art", in that business till I really wanted to "know".

At that point I simply shut myself in the shop and turned myself into a hermit, and focused, on my desire until I "got it" I actually made cold out of flame.

That was all good and there was an elation in my heart, but still I "knew" I needed more!

So with the new found vigor of having actually done that which I knew no man I had ever talked to had achieved, I approached a new level of teachers, those ones who are doing it for a living and had learned the "hard way".

After several hours, perhaps days on the phone I found an ex Amish guy, (actually he wasn't ex, but raised Amish and never went that way) anyway he agreed to teach me, or fill in the gaps and hold my hand to learn the trade. He explained the horror he suffered in failing several important steps that cost him a fortune to fix.

Now I understand enough to teach others, I have many hundreds of units out there, and simply know my product is good, no brag, just fact.

In learning from my teacher I also had my perception and mental facilities, and realized that he taught me the "right way' in that he explained how to overcome certain "call backs"

I will illustrate one small point, if you put phosphoric acid on rusty steel, it will make a chemical reaction, and change the iron oxide into iron phosphate.

Now that is technical jargon for turning something bad for refrigerators "rust" into something good "primer coating before painting"


Now here is my point, okay? He told me to "always" coat every inch of the head, but told me of call backs he still suffered for not doing that.
So I knew he told me to do that which he did not always do.

(do as I say, not as I do)

And herein is the principle of art made perfect, for a good job done right is more expensive than a job done occasionally slipshod.

The art of 'living' is not hard to discern, for the shipwrecks of bad decisions are all around us.

But there is a lesson in learning from those that are successful, even if they have blaring holes in their philosophy.

Fred,

That's an amazing story and interestingly told. I see the art in your living, which can be anything one does good and right. I printed your post off and saved it.

I've been saving some notes on the subject of perfection, and want to write a post on it soon. There's a lot to this word that don't meet the eye.

Perfection is not our enemy like it's so often portrayed by Christians. Perfection is or friend.

Brent