And while you are at the tavern don't forget to look up St. Pauli Girl and Stella Artois. Even though these hot babes will keep you company all evening long, don't expect to learn much about the Holdemans from them.
We are not a cult. I'll gladly tell you what you want to know. Click my name and send me an e-mail if you wish. Or you can ask on the forum here and get more answers like above. Asking here is like going to the republican convention and trying to get answers about the democratic party or vise versa. Most of what you hear may even be mostly "correct" with a lot of spin.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
Dear Travelingman, I understand that you are a CGCM member? How do you understand Matthew 5:11?
I have been doing some reading here and it is interesting to say the least! I have been to the popular evangelical churchs and listened to the health and wellness preaching. I have seen the popular movements the fire of the Holy Ghost. I have seen money and popularity and charismatic teachers who preach a feel good gospel devoid of repentance and life change. I am looking for a people who serve the God of the Bible and do not pander to social opinion. This forum is interesting. It seems to be one of the strongest antichurch forums I have seen. I have looked for the base, and the grounds, for the angry outbursts and I have yet to understand it. It is puzzling to me. Can someone explain?
Matt 5:11 (NIV) "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
I really dont know how to approach that question. I feel that here in North America that doesnt happen a lot, so it is hard for me to put it in perspective. I have been mildly insulted or harassed but it didnt bother me much. For us it is socially acceptable to be a Christian. I talked with a brother from Nigeria a few years back and he says that in some places there the people really harass the Christians. The families of those people will nag, harass, beat, beg, bribe, or whatever it takes to get them to turn away from Christ. Im sure that God gives them extra strength to stand up for Jesus in these times. I dont know if this at all answers your question.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
TM: Of course you would claim you're not a cult. It's a rare occurrence when someone who has bought into, and remains bought into, a cult to recognize and admit that they are part of a cult. Same with cult leaders - How many cult leaders claim to be cult leaders? No, no, they're 'prophets' or 'anointed ones' or something similar (usually the claims are made by themselves, not others, at least at first).
The Church of God in Christ, (Mennonite) is a cult. Plain and simple. A cult. Run, don't walk, away from them as fast as you can.
I am not part of the church that believes itself to be the only true denomination in all of Christianity. You are. That makes you a cult member. What's your favourite flavour of Kool-Aid?
This message has been edited by StevenThiessen on Dec 14, 2008 2:19 PM
I know we've thrown this word "cult" around quite a bit, but I would have to agree with Steven on this one. Any organization that would place a lifelong BAN on someone just because they choose to leave the group is a cult. This group may not be intentionally dishonest in their dealings, but they are willfully and voluntarily ignorant of simple Bible principles. Getting the straight scoop from one of them is pretty much an impossibility.
New-Fred; I agree with TM that CGCM is not a cult. Steven may be referring to the belief within the leadership of CGCM that they, at the exclusion of all others, are the one true visible church established at Pentecost. SInce they believe this, they also do not allow believers to leave the organization without being excommunicated and shunned.
However, this particular belief has not always been dogmatic with them and they have had various explanations of it. One being that, as other churches, they believe they correctly model the NT church of the Bible, but allow others the same claim. Except for this particular belief, they generally fall right in line with other plain Anabaptist churches. (Some would also vehemently argue that they have a docetic view of the incarnation of Christ.)
If you have interest in this church, you would do well to first get information from them, explained as they see it; before you ask those who disagree with them.
Any organization that would place a lifelong BAN on someone just because they choose to leave the group is a cult
Banning a person who joined an organization after they were a fully grown, informed and mature adult is one thing, but when they hold the avoidance on people who joined while they were just young kids is another.
Ok boys get out your bazooka now and tell me I am a lier and all kinda other stuff!!!
When you join the church everyones knows that it is a lifelong commitment. When you leave (or get kicked out, jackbooted, spiritualy raped, whatever metaphor fits your fancy) there is a seperation that takes place. Most of the time people leave because they want freedom to what they want, free from people trying to help them (ramming their religion down their throats). It comes down to choices we all make. If you want your freedom you pay the price of not fellowshiping with the church. I was not born to H parents and came to the church as an adult. I feel that as far as I can tell it the church that most closely follows the teachings of the Bible. Perfect, no. I feel it would be a sin for me to leave where the Lord has so graciously led me.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
"Any organization that would place a lifelong BAN on someone just because they choose to leave the group is a cult. This group may not be intentionally dishonest in their dealings, but they are willfully and voluntarily ignorant of simple Bible principles."
It's not a lifelong ban. Anytime they want to repent and return to the acceptance of the group the ban is lifted.
Actually they have the bible principles down very well. They are a shining example of what you get when you apply those principles by man's wisdom. They only work correctly when applied by God. When a people begin to help God then you end up with a mess. (Look back to what happened when Sara and Abraham took matters into their own hands also.)
I even step out on a limb here and agree with Sirius, to a point. I really don't think people should be brought into the Church until they are old enough to comprehend a lifelong commitment.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
When you join the church everyones knows that it is a lifelong commitment
So what you're saying, TM, is that when a person who joined the Holdemans at age 14 decides that H life isn't the life for them and leaves at age 21 that they should be forever avoided?
Sirius; I asked for an annulment for my wife in 1976, and the reply was no. She had several years earlier asked to be re-baptized and they did not comply. After the crunch of 1974-76, she was baptized elsewhere.
In my wife's case, she clearly did not understand salvation when she was first baptized; which CGCM teaches must be understood and experienced before baptism. Not sure that they have a definite rule covering this. My wife's nephew was re-baptized after he found Christ. Some baptisms have been annulled. (I do not know how you "undo" a baptism, but apparently it can be done.) Certainly membership could be dissolved if they wanted to.
" I feel that as far as I can tell it the church that most closely follows the teachings of the Bible."
As far as you can tell??? You obviously can't tell very far. You're not close, I mean not anywhere within a billion miles of 1 Corth, 5:11. Your church is not even close to the Bible, TM, grow up.
From a e-mail I received from TheSchoolofChrist.org
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
Q: How can I tell my pastor (who I love dearly) why I no longer can go to church?? How do even begin to explain this new place I have come into - Jesus!? How do I explain that I can no longer sit and listen to the legalistic bondage I am faced with at church?
A: That's a great question. I can sense your concern for your pastor and for the people you're leaving behind. It is important to leave on good terms if possible but sometimes it becomes impossible through no fault of your own. Sometimes people love us and value us only when we are doing what they want us to do. Leaving the church will prove the quality of the relationship. If the relationship is based on church then the relationship will die once you stop attending. If the relationship is based on the Lord then the relationship will continue so long as the Lord continues. We have found the most friendships cannot survive a change in church membership status. This is the unfortunate but sad reality.
So the answer to your question is you speak the truth in love and see what kind of response you get. Pastors have been trained to talk you out of leaving their church so some people find it is better to write a letter (especially if there is strife). There is an exception, however. If the group is controlling or spiritually abusive then no explanation is necessary. Simply leave, and break off all contact. Spiritually abusive groups do not deserve the courtesy of an explanation.
The best is yet to come! God bless you as you follow Him and discover true fellowship in the Ekklesia that Jesus is building.
Not forever just until you're dead. Then God will judge. All we can really work with is our own personal experiences right?? In my experience the vast majority of the people that I know that have been expelled were expelled for living in open sin. Once they were expelled they continued sinning and having a good time. Although they excuse themselves because they wern't always treated just right or whatever they continue to live in sin. How can that just go away because the ywish it to??? The wages of sin is death.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
"the vast majority of the people that I know that have been expelled were expelled for living in open sin. Once they were expelled they continued sinning and having a good time. Although they excuse themselves because they weren't always treated just right or whatever they continue to live in sin.
TM you are a real piece of work! "OPEN" sin! What is that in the holdeman church!? Come on! Too many people have unanswered questions for most of the expellings to be over "Open Sin".
"In my experience the vast majority of the people that I know that have been expelled were expelled for living in open sin."
Oh come on TM, are you smokin holdie weed today?? Huh? Whats matter with you. I'ts Sunday and you lying like crazy.One of you own ,on another thread, just admitted one was expelled and no one knew what it was for, so all the munchkins got together and admitted the boy back in. Open sin? Again TM, please, please grow up, you're beginning to be more Qwerty like every post.
Vine. Notice I said in my "personal experience". I call open sin drunkeness, fornnication, laciviousness, lying, and so on. All these stories I hear about these people who were living rewarding christian lives just getting ripped to shreds by the evil ministers just becasuse they didn't get their butts kissed just right, that only happens on COG forum. I've never seen it. I even know some people who have deluded themselves into thinking they are innocent victims. Anyhow unless this discussion takes another course I am finished with it.
Yes Nas it was realised that a mistake had been made and it was dealt with. Seems like the Christian way to me. Although honestly I have no first hand knowledge of this situation. Some on here have never been wrong.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
This message has been edited by 1travelingman on Dec 14, 2008 4:39 PM
TM, it would just be so much easier if my family didn't feel obligated to use the Holdi-buffet when I'm around. They know I am not an evil person. They know I have a good heart.
TM, OK I'll change it for you. Do you believe with your limited "personal experience" you are qualified to decide a course of action about anyone's spiritual destiny?
I have a relative that got her membership annulled because she lied her way into the church. I'm told she never had a newbirth experience and so they annulled her membership when she admitted it. I don't think that the avoidance is practiced on her. (at least not that i know of)
I was 11 when I got baptized into the CGICM and I've told the preachers that I shouldn't be held to a decision that I made when I was 11 but of course I've got absolutely nowhere with them. When I get kicked out I will be avoided for the rest of my life for a unwitting decision I made at a very young age.
Sirius if you feel you were wronged I would go back to were you were excommunicated and talk to them. I doubt you will get very far because (I'm assuming here) you broke fellowship and went off to do your own thing. If you left you seperated yourself not the other way around. When you were excommunicated it just formalised what you had done yourself. I really do feel for you, but we must all reap what we sow.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
Sirius if you feel you were wronged I would go back to were you were excommunicated and talk to them. I doubt you will get very far because (I'm assuming here) you broke fellowship and went off to do your own thing. If you left you seperated yourself not the other way around.
Thank you,TM. I might start a new thread concerning this.
This message has been edited by Sirius65 on Dec 14, 2008 5:12 PM
TM that's okay, I forgive you for what you did not partake in and was not a part of. Much of the worst stuff happened before your time here, unfortunately that kind of stuff is still happening in other places. I imagine you just participated in expelling my son last week too. but that is okay because I understand what the charges were and I am personally not real happy with his behaviour right now either. But he is my son and I love him and will continue to do so but I will also keep continuing to challenge his behavior like I have been. He does not come around much, we don't party enough to suit him. He knows one thing though, that his mother loves him and is praying for him. But in reality TM, many things go on around you that are never seen or that are simply passed over by many of you, as, that is just so and so and eventually it will catch up to him. In the meantime the witness of your church is being trashed in the community. people are being hurt by the actions of others, wrongfully condemned as sinners by people that are actually committing the sins they are pointing at others. One of my sons that your cong has refused to baptise for 3 yrs has left and is attending elsewhere, where he is accepted just the way he is, and is happy as I have seen him in years and enjoying spending his sunday school class actually praying for others in need. I spent a day with one of your own the other week and she is upset that W is attending elsewhere but admitted to me that the way that he has been treated the past years was simply appalling and even though he is my son I have to tell you that he took it much more cheerfully than anyone else I know would have taken the same treatment. He never complained about how he was treated, tried his best to participate whenever he could and went everywhere with a smile on his face. He stuck up for you all to the uttermost.
But now he is truly joyful.
Truth Walker, You asked why you see that this is such a volatile place. I am not sure if I can exactly give you an answer. But I believe that much of it lies in the two-faced part of the whole thing. being told we believe this way and finding out they act another.
Such as "there is no dress code," but heaven help you if you goof and don't follow the unwritten one. "We don't have a list of rules " but what happens if you start coming in jan and put up your standard christmas tree the next season after you have been baptised for 6 mos and have no idea that H do not have Christmas trees.
"We don't believe in insurance programs" But then you are pressured to be a part in MUA, BAA, CHA. All H state regulation run aid plans for you home, vehicle, health.
There are many people on this forum that have been run thru a wringer that has ruined and divided families. caused untold heartaches, severe abuses that have been covered up by those in authority. Wrongs that have not been made right even though they have been admitted to.
there are MANY more H reading this than are posting. some are reading just for entertainment. others because they are going thru just these fiery trials and are afraid of the consequences if it is found out that they are reading here, but they are agreeing with some of it. and others are seeing a problem and are reading here to see if they can get a grip on the problem and be part of a solution.
I would believe that the average H is a person that really and truly wants to serve God and live his life in a Godly manner, but unfortunately I believe that too many of them have their heads in the sand as to what is really going on around them and feel like "the less I know the better off I am, and none of that really affects me anyway, so why should I worry about it and if you would just forgive and forget it, it would all just go away."
Unfortunately the situation that is being created is not going away, as you can see here on this very forum.
Love and prayers, Locklady
This message has been edited by Locklady on Dec 14, 2008 5:50 PM
TM, You need not answer that. Growing up from a Holdeman family both sides and just 2 miles from the church in a Holdeman community didn't provide me with enough experience to "know" the Mennonite Brethren. But I'm learning. I'm reading "God's Big Idea" by Munroe right now, its been hard reading for me. Munroe doesn't appear to have any contact with either group. And yet, what he puts forth as Kingdom Living matches up quite a bit with both community's, even the expelling. But then I have never heard anyone refer to the Holdeman church as a "garden". You might find the book good reading.
It sure was nice parking up close in the visitors parking on a cold night! Not many sat close to us though. I still think the two testimonies in the middle of the program were out of place. Here we are celebrating the birth of Jesus with the children singing and out comes one lady with how she could relate to Joseph because her Husband had an affair. And the another gentleman kissed up to how he had lost his salvation and returned to the church and could now go to heaven with the churches permission.
I was 11 when I got baptized into the CGICM and I've told the preachers that I shouldn't be held to a decision that I made when I was 11 but of course I've got absolutely nowhere with them. When I get kicked out I will be avoided for the rest of my life for a unwitting decision I made at a very young age.
Micky, it sounds as though you and I are thinking down the same lines.
I'm quite certain that no Holdeman who posts on here can come up with a legitimate reason why your and my memberships shouldn't be annulled.
Sirius, if you get the right group of guys it will fly, course it seems to go better if you want rebaptised. They just don't get the unexpell idea too good.
TM, I'm not disputing that many on here did deserve to be excommunicated,and some just plain wanted out
of a very controlling church. What I'm angry about is that your church has ex'ed two of my sisters and
they didn't know why. One of them found out later it was because she was going to continue her
education.So now 50 yrs later you still won't eat at the same table, you avoid shaking her hand whenever
possible.All of this is your interpetation of 1 Corith. 5:11. Which is just hogwash. And guys like you, TR
and Xep, still try and justify it. Its the biggest crock I've ever seen, you know its wrong.
"I am looking for a people who serve the God of the Bible and do not pander to social opinion."
That is a very good thing to be looking for.
I am wondering something. Do you know what you are looking for? Do you feel like you will know when you have found it?
From your posts today, I am assuming you have met the Lord, and have had a change of heart, and are on the narrow way. Is that correct? You may be seeking fellowship with believers who are led by the Lord? The Bible teaches that the fellowship of the saints strengthens the spiritual man, and gives courage to fight the good fight of faith. Paul testified of this many times. I am of the belief that if you prayerfully seek those things, surely the Lord will hear your prayer, and give to you what you ask in His name.
Anyone who says that CGCM is not a cult does not have any idea what a cult is/does. If CGCM is not a cult, then there is no such thing as a cult, period.
You disgruntled children. Still worried about getting your asses kicked out of the church. If I didn't know any better, I'd say you all want back in.
And Scott, anyone that has to resort to that charge of cult, don't know much either. If you can't let the proper and ordain authorities establish those things, you need to learn a few things.....and not by how you like to learn, because obviously you can't learn right.
<<< And Scott, anyone that has to resort to that charge of cult, don't know much either. If you can't let the proper and ordain authorities establish those things, you need to learn a few things....>>>
In many cases, the proper ordained authority is the cult. Your definition is self-generated, and is based on a personal fetish regarding government and personal views of sedition.
If I contend with you first after a long silence, you accuse me of picking a fight...and so are you subject to your own version of "justice", or does it just apply to others?
This message has been edited by oldmanrip on Dec 15, 2008 11:25 AM
God's word says that the people of God will be seperate from the world and will be evil spoken of, so I am reading with interest but yet am not turned off by these negative comments. The Word says to beware when men speak WELL of you.
Instead of looking for "a people" you should be "a people'
forget attempting to fit your worldview onto a group, for you will of necessity have to compromise your view to fit the group's vision.
Trvelingman:
"the vast majority of the people that I know that have been expelled were expelled for living in open sin. Once they were expelled they continued sinning and having a good time. Although they excuse themselves because they weren't always treated just right or whatever they continue to live in sin.
Traveling man, I so certainly disagree with this assessment,
My sin and that of my wife consisted in not allowing the preachers to take us in the backroom and spiritually rape us again, without a witness to bring charges against them. Since the first time they did that they lied to the congregation, and made us look like the liar.
I'll submit to being the liar once, but not twice.
After I left they booted 6 of my kids, and of course I have no idea what their "sin' is, because they never even had a charge against them. The H simply expelled them because they went to my new church instead of their lying whore.
Backing up a little they expelled a young lady for the sin of going to a church that was closer to where she lived.
Before her, they expelled the Stoppels, whose sin consisted basically in confessing that all Christians everywhere are Christians, and I might add that the sin is specifically a confession of theirs by conference decree, since it is covered in the 33 articles of faith they accept in their foundational teachings.
About the time of the Stoppels, a young man was convicted for the sin of porking the calves in moment of carbonated unbridled arousal, is that gross? yes, is it sin? yes! Did he probably do it? yes! Did he confess and forsake it? yes! did he want to not do it again? Well that is why he confessed it! So why expose him to the whole congregation, and then expel him if he was not "continuing in sin?"
Before him a couple had "phone sex" before their marriage so the preachers exed them for that "continuing in sin", okay, a young couple before honorable marriage, knowing they are engaged are fornicating over the phone lines let's expel them, and if you don't agree we will expel you for the sin of disagreeing with "us". And that is Christian is about !
Tm, I hope you are getting the picture, your sacred whore hates people that are attempting to 'accept" Christ, but rather is looking for perfect converts. And the only way to be perfect is to either join qwerty's church, or become a liar, because "all have sinned"
Unless the sin is willful, rebellious, and openly notorious, it is not to be disciplined, except by Godly council that is held in confidence. The preachers in the hell driven H society will expose everyone's sin and discipline them for that which they are in their hearts trying to get the "victory" over.
That is just the last few, while I was there but there were others, and your opinion that they discipline mostly willful sin is simply a lie, you are not being truthful even if you want to be.
May God richly Bless your day!
This message has been edited by bawar on Dec 15, 2008 9:09 AM
Fred, if you are really interested in knowing about CGCM, then a careful examination of their treatment of marriage when one partner is "in", and the other is "expelled" is paramount. At that juncture, you will have no further questions.
New Fred is just a troll. It's probably best to ignore him. Besides, he doesn't even have the courtesy to change his handle here on the forum. Can you smell Holdeman, Holdeman-defender or Holdeman-wannabe? I can.
Truth Walker Fred,, lets see if you can be honest here and give a run down on yourself. Are you REALLY
looking for some infro, or are you a holdeman sent by the tech committee to dig up more anger, or
keep it stirred?
I read your whole post this morning before you edited it, coped it and saved it. I keep a lot of these things in case I ever need proof of all the lies and injustices you've publicly said against me.
I shut the computer off and went to work this morning figuring I would have something to say later, and I did. But I won't say it now since you edited out exactly what severely charged me this morning. Can you show this forum who showed you to edit what out? Why did you have to do it?
I really should deal with your vile post, but I'll hold my tongue.
"Fred, if you are really interested in knowing about CGCM, then a careful examination of their treatment of marriage when one partner is "in", and the other is "expelled" is paramount. At that juncture, you will have no further questions."
New Fred,
Don't buy into this unless you don't care about a much bigger picture of the wrongs and cruelty and injustices dug out of the heart of individual by the tool of government that no one has to see, not even the government.
They haven't done nothing to me. They kicked me out during the Panel after I had been in about a year and I wanted out. I left the church yard that bright sunny morning at the age of 17 and haven't looked back since.
"I think I will go seek information elsewhere. Thanks for the input."
Uh-huh,I should think so Mr. Fredrick, me thinks the water is a bitzy to hot fer ya.To many question that could
require you to have to strech the truth, maybe?????
Brent, your preoccupation and fetish for me is abnormal and one sided. What is your problem anyway? I have nothing to say to you, and I don't need to receive anything from you. Please leave me alone and I will leave you alone (as I have been).
This message has been edited by oldmanrip on Dec 15, 2008 8:31 PM
"Brent, your preoccupation and fetish for me is abnormal and one sided. What is your problem anyway? I have nothing to say to you, and I don't need to receive anything from you. Please leave me alone and I will leave you alone (as I have been)."
Scott,
"Brent, your preoccupation and fetish for me is abnormal and one sided. What is your problem anyway? I have nothing to say to you, and I don't need to receive anything from you. Please leave me alone and I will leave you alone (as I have been)."
Scott,
When you write on a public forum you should know by now there's going to be challenges. What I wrote to you this morning was a far cry from what followed.
I didn't speak out of place this morning nor did I unlawfully charge you.
Who turned things vile today?
I ought to write a post a day on here and see how long you would leave me alone. Do you understand what I said? How long could you stay innocent?
Fredrick, just keep in mind, to a newcomer it can look very good. But as a newcomer you have no idea wat actually goes on. Please be very careful because once you become a member its not nearly as nice as it looks! At least not in the longterm... I am speaking from experience, as are many others here on the forum. (and many who are not on this forum) Investigate the CGICM with care and may God Bless You!
Mickey that's real good advice. Come check us out. Ask lots of questions and don't stop sking till your satisfied. We have a no return policy. Ask all the many thousands of members across the world who are happy and free.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
Sorry Nas you done missed them. I can give you heads up for next year if you want. It might be better to just call it in though. Gas would get expensive. You could crash on the couch in my trailer though. I'm always hospitable.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
Yeah, I figured that because you are very defensive all off sudden of the holy church, so I was sure
they were in progress or just over. Thats when you holdemans get real "holy" and two faced, we'll give
it a month and you'll smoothin out again, camera well come out,CD's emerge from there hiding places, wipe
the sweat off your brow a you're good for another year!
Two faced, me , never. My camera has never been hidden. I have a real nice Kodak digital job, takes some fine pictures. Can't pull out the CD's becasue I don't have any.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
>>Two faced, me , never. My camera has never been hidden. I have a real nice Kodak digital job, takes some fine pictures. Can't pull out the CD's becasue I don't have any.<
<br>
Of course you don't have CDs. You've got mp3s. Much easier to hide them from the preachers, errmm, I mean it's a much more compact way of storing music and space is at a premium if you live in a trailer.
On a serious note, TM, how do you justify having a camera when a) your church has a specific rule against photography and b) in times past, people have gotten expelled and are still being avoided to this day for having cameras? Two-faced? Maybe not. Breaking the rule? Definitely. Hypocritical? Absolutely.
Steve
Just as the Catholic priests sold indulgences in years past, so do the the Holdeman priests. There is an exception for every rule if you euphamistically grease the proper palms.
"Two faced, me , never. My camera has never been hidden. I have a real nice Kodak digital job"
Your camera is never hidden? Now you've also become a genuine liar. Will you take you camera into church this week as your kids put on the Christmas programs, and FREELY walk up to the front and snap pictures of them?
Me thinks not. Yet, lets remember YOU said your church preaches the WHOLE bible, and as YOU know it, taking pictures is a sin. So either your church is preaching it wrong ,or you are in great sin. Which is it?
Call it hypocrite,I call it two faced, call it what ever you want, the book of James calls it "a double minded person".
OS: Good point. Now I know why my family never could get away with the stuff that others did - we were poor and couldn't afford to buy off the Holdepreachers.
Nas: Good call. We should be expecting some pictures of a bunch of blue-eyed blond kids singing Christmas songs (without too much emotion, of course) in a nasal twang that would do Dwight Yoakum proud.
TM: Does that Kodak job do video? (Or is video still 'worldly'?) Maybe you could Youtube your local Holdeschool Christmas program.
I've never tried the video on this one. My old one did pretty good. Sometimes I video stuff at work for documention. I use my camera for business. To be real honest I don't have a real strong conviction on the issue but I refrain in deference to my brethren. It's not an issue, it's not like anybodys gonna go to hell for not taking picturesof the Christmas program.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
If I my 30 seconds of mental math when I typed that were correct, that'a when I started posting on this forum. Although you've probably noted that I am on sporadicaly.
Check! Check! Reality Check! Getting kicked around for telling it like it is since 2005!!
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