I am doing an unbiased study on the Incarnation of Christ.When I have time I will try to post the official interpration of the CGCM unless Fred or April will.I am sure they have it ready to just cut and paste. Then I want the Stoppels view posted and any others that want to weigh in here.I will also post my personal conviction on this matter.
This is official CGCM veiw (one of them)
From the 18 articles of faith written in 1632 in Dortrecht
IV. Of the Coming of Christ into This World, and the Purpose for Which He Came
We believe and confess further, that when the time of the promise, for which all the pious forefathers had so much longed and waited, had come and was fulfilled, this previously promised Messiah, Redeemer, and Saviour, proceeded from God, was sent, and, according to the prediction of the prophets, and the testimony of the evangelists, came into the world, yea, into the flesh, was made manifest, and the Word, Himself became flesh and man; that He was conceived in the virgin Mary, who was espoused to a man named Joseph, of the house of David; and that she brought Him forth as her first-born son, at Bethlehem, wrapped Him in swaddling clothes, and laid Him in a manger. John 4:25; 16:28; I Tim. 3:16; John 1:14; Matt. 1:23; Luke 2:7.
We confess and believe also, that this is the same whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting, without beginning of days, or end of life; of whom it is testified that He Himself is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last; that He is the same, and no other, who was foreordained, promised, sent, and came into the world; who is God's only, first and own Son; who was before John the Baptist, before Abraham, before the world; yea, who was David's Lord, and the God of the whole world, the first-born of every creature; who was brought into the world, and for whom a body was prepared, which He yielded up as a sacrifice and offering, for a sweet savor unto God, yea, for the consolation, redemption, and salvation of all mankind. John 3:16; Heb. 1:6; Rom. 8:32; John 1:30; Matt. 22:43; Col. 1:15; Heb. 10:5.
But as to how and in what manner this precious body was prepared, and how the Word became flesh, and He Himself man, in regard to this we content ourselves with the statement pertaining to this matter which the worthy evangelists have left us in their accounts, according to which we confess with all the saints, that He is the Son of the living God, in whom alone consist all our hope, consolation, redemption, and salvation, which we neither may nor must seek in any other. Luke 1:31, 32; John 20:31; Matt. 16:16.
We furthermore believe and confess with the Scriptures, that, when He had finished His course, and accomplished the work for which He was sent and came into the world, He was, according to the providence of God, delivered into the hands of the unrighteous; suffered under the judge, Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead, was buried, and on the third day, rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven; and that He sits on the right hand of God the Majesty on high, whence He will come again to judge the quick and the dead. Luke 22:53; 23:1; 24:6, 7, 51.
And that thus the Son of God died, and tasted death and shed His precious blood for all men; and that He thereby bruised the serpent's head, destroyed the works of the devil, annulled the handwriting and obtained forgiveness of sins for all mankind; thus becoming the cause of eternal salvation for all those who, from Adam unto the end of the world, each in his time, believe in, and obey Him. Gen. 3:15; I John 3:8; Col. 2:14; Rom. 5:18.
The third paragraph says it all. "He is God, He is man, as to how his body ... well we content ourselves with and confess that he is the Son of God and is all in all" (Paraphrased)
***Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, ***
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He, together with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit, has always been and always will be. He was born of a virgin, partook of humanity but without a sinful nature, suffered and died on the cross to atone for the sins of mankind, arose from the grave, and ascended into heaven. Only through the shedding of His blood can we obtain forgiveness of sins and access to the grace of God.
John 1:1; John 3:16; Matthew 1:20; Colossians 2:9; Luke 2:11; Luke 9:35
***Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, ***
Here is what 'the Stoppel site' has to say about the matter:
14. The Church of God in Christ, Mennonite, believes the flesh of Jesus was not sinless human flesh from the seed of Mary but was a specially prepared heavenly body that only resembled human flesh.
He did not take His flesh from Mary Bible Doctrines and Practice pg 40
The word was made flesh, not of Mary, but in Mary Bible Doctrines and Practice pg 40
Note: God sent forth His son, made of a woman Gal. 4:4
The body of Jesus was an eternal product from heaven Bible Doctrines and Practice pg 40
The body chosen by the Godhead for mans salvation was of heavenly origin Studying the Gospel published by Gospel Publishers page 7
His flesh or body was became flesh, not of Mary or of any created substance, but only of the Word of life which had come down from heaven Bible Doctrines and Practice pg 40
"Christ, His begotten Son...did not need to have a part made up from the human race so that he could be the Christ." Minister Gladwin Koehn in a taped sermon October 19, 2003
[It is unscriptural to say] that the Son of God united himself with human nature, that is, with a man of the flesh of Mary Menno Simons Complete Works, Forty-Five Unscriptural Confessions pg 379
[It is unscriptural to say] that Christ took on him the seed of Abraham
Menno Simons Complete Works , Forty-Five Unscriptural Confessions pg 379
Menno Simons writings .surpass all others in thoroughness, excepting the Holy Scriptures John Holdeman, founder of the denomination, John Holdeman,Mirror of Truth published by Gospel Publishers, Moundridge, KS page 37
Messenger of Truth article August 28, 2002
Take note that this verse and the previous one point to the resemblance only.
Do we not need carefulness in bringing the human dimension into Christ?
Does the thought of Christs humanness attract us?
The fact that Christs body did not even begin to decay is proof that His body was not of this earth."
His body did not begin to go back to dust between the crucifixion and the resurrection, as ours would have.
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham (the italics are KJV text). Removing the italics, which indicate missing or unclear text in the original manuscript, leaves this verse with less difficulty.
There was no possibility for humanity to contribute to their salvation
Are we consistent with our conviction on the deity of Christ when we allude to His struggle in the Garden as His humanity recoiling from fulfilling the promise?"
Messenger of Truth Article October 1, 2003
"Those who would mingle the Son of God and the son of Adam in the incarnation of Christ would also mingle the children of God with the children of Adam in the body of Christ today. It is impossible, they say, to conceive of a pure, organized, visible church containing only those who have had their sins forgiven and their consciences sprinkled by the blood of Christ.
"This is the nub of the whole matter. Those who accept an impure Christ, born of the literal flesh of Mary, must of necessity also accept an impure church. Those who see the organized and visible church as an imperfect body also believe in an impure Christ.
When we speak of a perfect church, some people view this as tantamount to blasphemy. Yet the Bible does speak of a perfect church, without spot or blemish (Eph 5:27). The point that is being missed is that the church is not a man-made body and that it is more than the sum of its earthly members."
"the most prevalent error concerning the nature of Christ has been that He obtained His humanity through Mary"
Validation of Official Status of Quote Sources
MESSENGER OF TRUTH: The Messenger of Truth is recognized as the official Church organ. Messenger of Truth article titled The One Hundreth Year January 2, 2002
BIBLE DOCTRINES AND PRACTICE: Bible Doctrines and Practice is an explanation of the faith and practice of the Church of God in Christ, Mennonite.The articles were carefully read and revised by a group which was comprised of the Publication Board, the Historical and Doctrinal Writing and Proving Committee, and the books editors Preface, page 23-24.
CONFERENCE REPORTS 1896-1993: Resolved, That conference decisions are mandatory Conference Reports. Article 6, November 1974. A compilation of all the mandatory decisions reached in churchwide conferences. This book has been referred to as the cornerstone of the Holdeman faith.
JOHN HOLDEMAN, FOUNDER OF THE DENOMINATION: Further, be it resolved, that we unitedly pledge, before God and one another, to uphold the true faith, as delivered to the saints, and practiced by the apostles, and reformers like Peter Waldo, Menno Simons and John Holdeman, and upheld by the Church today according to the scripture Centennial of the Church of God in Christ, Mennonite 1959 published by Gospel Publishers page 20
The blessing from the traditional Nine Lessons and Carols 'spoke' to me today when I heard it read in the recording from St. Thomas's: "May he who by his Incarnation gathered into one things earthly and heavenly, grant you the fullness of inward peace and goodwill; and the blessing of God Almighty, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, be upon you and remain with you always."
The Incarnation is about God coming into our temporal existence, not as an outsider or alien, but as one of us - our 'near kinsman' as it were. That's why God didn't parachute an adult 'human' into our world - the human body of Christ was of this temporal earth, growing for nine months in the womb of a Jewish teenager, drawing his sustenance from her, and in the process truly receiving his flesh from her. That's what makes it all so special.
The practical essence of the incarnation of Christ, especially for us to appreciate at this time of the year is that Jesus Christ is "Emanuel" or God with us. Jesus Christ came onto the world to bring redemption to a lost world, and to "be with us". This "with us" is to draw us to God, to bring proffered restoration to fallen man, to bring peace within our own being and with others, and it is the believers responsibility and privilege to reflect this love and joy of "God with us", to others.
Xep's posting as follows, clearly brings forward the gospel and "hope" that faith brings to all who believe.
"And that thus the Son of God died, and tasted death and shed His precious blood for all men; and that He thereby bruised the serpent's head, destroyed the works of the devil, annulled the handwriting and obtained forgiveness of sins for all mankind; thus becoming the cause of eternal salvation for all those who, from Adam unto the end of the world, each in his time, believe in, and obey Him".
The same vein of thought that says Jesus [the flesh-man] hailed from some other position and place that was perfect, also has a real problem in the matters of pure Faith and it's power to change humanity from the corruptable to the incorruptable! There is no doctrine or teaching more false than this one, it throws the whole and ultimate plan of God into jeopardy! The truth of this thing is a foundational building block.
The same vein of thought easily believes in a pure and perfect church by a linage process [again from somewhere else more perfect than us now] along with belief in punitive practices that occur becasue mankind has gone about criminalizing sin. It's clear in the letter to those at Ephesus that the perfection of the believer is accomplished by the washing of (water) by the word of God!
This process is neither by linage nor is it by a process of criminalizing sin. Once we criminalize sin we immediately are into the hard work of sin-management from the exterior of the believer. Christ [within] the believer is the hope of glory for the believer! This mystery is withheld from all with the law for righteousness, mindset.
Sin is indeed against both ourselves and God, therefore we do well to avoid sin at every turn! Sin keeps us from being restored in the way that He desires that we be restored! "He came to restore what had been lost". Sin is simply mud or sludge in the pipes.
To criminalize sin is something that legalism and it's spirit does well. Only the premise of legalism will perform this type thing. If we fall from the premise of the Spirit of Grace, there is one place to fall to and that is the premise of law.
Once the ten life-giving commands were given through Moses, those on the valley floor immediately reduced them to mere laws upon their arrival. This immediately criminalized the transgression of the commands. That was the greatest error [to that date] in the house of Israel.
Pure Faith in the believer does not practice this nor does pure Faith think in these terms. Nor does the Spirit of God criminalize sin for the Spirit of God comes from an altogether different position and premise than this! We can get into His purposes and into His vein for our lives! Jesus thinks in terms of restoration!
The vein of thought that says the flesh of Jesus came from heaven as a complete new thing, falls altogether short of the Faith of Jesus and His imputed Righteousness; thus this vein of thought must subscribe to a lesser faith in the law of truth for both righteousness and perfection. This is what it now goes about doing. It's premise is legal. We can readily observe it as it winds down it's pathways in ourselves or in others.
Therefore what occured in the conception and birth of Jesus becomes extremely important to basic and life-giving doctrine of His Gospel once it is opened up! So long as this pursuit is in obscurity I doubt that anything dark occurs.
In meat or in human flesh, Jesus came. That's incarnation. "Finding Himself in the form of human flesh, He humbled himself unto death, even the death of the cross". Incarnation means to be housed in meat or in flesh.
Mary was of both the seed and linage of Abraham and of the seed and linage of David. The Word is clear on this. It was pure genetic seed that Mary offered to the equasion of this Son of man! He was not only the Son of God!
Mary offered her genetics when she said, [let it be as you the angel has said to me]. This agreement on her part was likely the very moment of conception of Him within her]. The Word had now become flesh!
The [genetics] passed on by woman-kind are pure, always. Mary offered genetics alone to this Christ-child! You shall call him Jesus! His name is wonderful!
The [life] of Jesus did not come from Mary, neither did it come from Joseph. The sin and rebellion code is in the [life] of male-kind. The life in the blood is what is passed on when we men sire our off-spring. Jesus had the inclinations of the flesh of humanity but fell short of having rebellion i.e. the sin-nature.
The seed of sin first manifested in Heaven in the [rebellion] of Lucifer. Rebellion is the sin-seed.
Indeed He took upon Himself our sin, one passage says that He actually became our sin once His humanity was perfected by suffering.
The sins of the fathers are visited upon the children. The sins of the mothers are not genetically visited upon their children. Environmentally, anything can happen.
This does not mean that women are not as prone to evil and darkness as are men, but it does mean that the genetics that woman-kind pass on to their off-spring are pure.
The woman offers no [life] to her off-spring in any age, present or past: only her genetics, does she pass on. That's the truth of all of us from our mothers.
We all get our [life] from our fathers. We all get the seed of sin from the [life] in our fathers. It's the Luciferian principle. The seed of sin lives and can only come from the fathers who pass on life itself.
The Spirit of God was well aware of this stuff long before we were and therefore knew to utilize the woman in manifesting His Son! The Bride of Jesus once again manifests the Son of God!
Therefore we clearly say to us all; Merry Christmas indeed! Let every believer by the washing of water by the Word of God, become as clean and pure as was the seed of Mary and as powerful as the Son of God over sin, sickness, and dark spirits!
Our redeemer is our Hope! His seed is pure and powerful! We are born of the incorruptable seed of the Word of God, if we are born of the Spirit of God!
We can be restored to mint condition and better! We may be vintage by blood line, but restoration by His blood or life is promised and possible!
This view and these truths are open for scrinity.
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Dec 26, 2008 6:24 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Dec 26, 2008 6:02 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Dec 26, 2008 6:00 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Dec 25, 2008 5:10 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Dec 24, 2008 2:42 PM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Dec 24, 2008 11:33 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Dec 24, 2008 11:22 AM
Mt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
It is only my opinion but whether Jesus has some of Mary's DNA or not is pointless. He was tempted as we are. And I do believe the temptation was real. It was only with God's Power that he was able to overcome. That is the only way I can overcome as well. If I am close to God and accept the power he has given.
I understand the practicality of your opinion and yet some believers appreciate an accurate and clear theology. To some it is very important.
For example; To some the changing of the covenants is not important: so long as they love God they say, every thing is alright.
I contend that we do not [have to have] accurate theology to walk with God, but it's the inaccurate theology that hurts us when we begin to live by that, and there is a whole lot of that going on. Accurate theology corrects this problem.
There is a theology that says this; to be acceptable before God we must add precepts of the letter to our walk, even though we are born of His Spirit. True theology corrects that error. There is a place for true and accurate theology.
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