You're standing there in church and you strike up a conversation with the soul next to you and...Well, let's see how it goes... After you exchange the usual pleasantries and find out a little of how each of you find yourself in this particular church, the conversation turns to other issues... And then it happens, one of you "lets it slip". Or is that the intent? However the conversation comes around to this, your standing within the church is revealed: Which does your walk with God emphasize more, salvation, and that with a capital "S", or forgiveness? You're history with a church is told by how you split these. But then think about it... How does Jesus himself split these? And that soul you are with takes the cue and the conversation next turns to...

...The lack of rain and how much the wheat is suffering. And don't forget to mention how many cattle Brother so and so is taking care of...

It's been so long since I ran with a crowd defined as you describe. I'm sure there are people as superficial as you describe in our body, but somehow that isn't the conversations we have. I guess many of our conversations center around the freedom in Jesus Christ. Freedom from the religiosity that many of us had formerly participated. Freedom that centers on a relationship with Jesus. How we can reach others with the good news. How we can love each other in a deeper and more Christlike way. How we can meet the needs of those who are hurting ...

Mark, you are blessed if that is what you talk about at church. I have always wondered why,as people who claim to have the only true church,the general conversations at church are just about as shallow as you can get. In fairness, not always, but most of you H know what I am talking about. It strikes me anymore that we are an extremely fear-based religion. We are afraid of what my peers will think if I am too joyful..maybe they will think I am charismatic or am worshipping "another Jesus", or what are they thinking about my operation; vehicles; kids' behaviour; what I'm wearing, what I say in Sunday School....and on and on. No wonder so many are on anti depressants. Too many live in a little exclusive bubble and only associate with like H, because "come out from among them and be ye separate", and everyone knows each other so well and it makes the fear of each other and the staff way out of proportion. Freedom in the Lord (not to do whatever you want,when you want) and a joyful spirit in people is something that is sadly lacking among the H. And it makes me sad. I wish so much it was different.

Cupcake,

As an example, last night Wednesday service, many of our regular youth and families were gone as it is spring break here. We still had an awesome worship session led by the youth praise team. After the worship some of us left the service as we are learning basic spanish to help converse with the spanish speaking population. Kris and I brought one of our hispanic friends for the second time to the church. She went with me to the spanish class and helped us with pronunciation and correct usage of the language. While we were in the class six people decided to turn their lives over to Jesus back in the other service. The conversations before church were with people who were new to the church and focused on welcoming them and making friendships. Spoke with one other couple who are houseparents at an orphanage and talked about some experiences with fostering kids.

Last Sunday night started out with a testimony service. Person after person got up and talked about how they had been delivered from drugs, alcohol, some of them were recently out of prison. Their exhortation was too the young people. Don't follow our path. You young you don't think sin will catch you, look at our broken lives. It isn't worth it. I was astonished. I had no idea so many people in this church were broken (getting free) people with a wonderful Jesus.

We talked about just what you are saying cupcake, just last sunday in SS school. One of the ladies pointed out that God put us in this world for a reason and we are to live our life and be at peace in Him no matter where we are or our circumstances. She pointed out that so often, you see families that become christians and they move somewhere where they can live their life off undisturbed and totally seperate so they can be seperate from the world and not be contaminated. She made the comment that she didn't think that was what God really meant for us to do, as how can we truly be a witness to those around us if we are going off and living life shuttered away. then she pointed out that even while they set themselves apart they are still prone to sin.
I know there is certainly a good thing in avoiding certain places, and not doing things that are wrong, we certainly do not want to take up sin. I also know that God sometimes takes us into situations that we would never go on our own, just so we can be there for someone that needs him. We are not placed here to be islands of our own, serving God alone, in our own little world. We are here to be a light in a dark place, that others may see that God is alive and in us.
And I also do not believe that the Christians in the Bible dressed in a manner that set them apart and on display in the world around them. Nor did they put their women in a place that set them apart like that, while the men looked like every one else around. Believe me, it is entirely possible to dress modestly and not stand out in a crowd so that every knows you are different. And it is also possible for people to know if you are truly a christian without looking like something from a foreign country. It comes thru in our speech, our love of others and our life and our love of our Saviour.

...As our conversation continues on... (You are secretly thinking: This is like so many more of the conversations I have had before. When will we ever connect on a more meaningful level? We barely know each other. All these years... Will this be just another missed opportunity to really share?... But you are relieved at the same time to be just conversing without the constant feeling someone is trying to fix you, to save you... Many have been there you guess, feeling like someone doesn't so much want to help you, but instead is only filling their... Somehow relationship with Jesus takes a back seat in so much witnessing... While the soul you are talking with is secretly thinking: Oh how much I want to share with them! But, they may not be open to our way. Maybe they are too far... Maybe if I push too much they may never... Best to be polite and let them see Him. Oh, will this turn out like so many times before? ) Somehow you are each led to continue trying. You both are in such a struggle. That uncomfortable struggle each of you feel, Where does it come from? Time seems to drag... But then!...

Why Mark, would you say in this conversation that the talk is, or the people are superficial? This is what I remember growing up in with most of the people at the reunions. In fact I would be very happy and consider it a success just to have them talking to me. Why just yesterday I was reading an article titled "Your Life as a Disciple" one of the points on a grid, under Being Transformed & Loving Others was: Shares the love of God with others regularly; attracts people to Jesus. Maybe not the point of a conversation you would strike up in church, but could that be part of it?

Vine,

I guess I misunderstood the intent of your post. I remember those conversations as well and truthfully I don't really miss them. The conversations I remember were completely self centered about us/ours, crops, milk production etc. Now to be sure, there is nothing wrong with such conversations, its just that there was no topic higher than that. I long to have just one memory of any of the adults in my life having a conversation about Jesus. I have no such memory. Many conversations about how special "we were" because we have the "truth" but never a conversation about the Savior.
Go figure.

No, you didn't misunderstand the deepness in the conversation. Your why lays bare just that.