Doug: For myself, I'm not sure that setting the question up as an either/or results in getting to the truth of the matter. The process of theosis* is a better explanation for me.
To overcome Christianity is not enough, but you know that.
We must overcome everything we do which is driven by guilt, fear, and shame, and which we do to assuage our fears of dire eternal consequences. Our fear of eternal consequences to horrible to even contemplate, coupled with basic ethnocentric tribalism, seems to produce vulnerabilities in our race which demand an hierarchial power structure, and subsequently make us slaves to the minds of men. The bible called this Nicolationaism. Another way to look at it (perhaps to simple) is that our spiritual passivity, dovetails with the power ambitions of a few men, to create these exclusive structures and make us slaves.
There is so much to say, how can you distil it down. And the entire stinking ball of wax may be caused by redefining sin as a criminal act rather than the true definition which is 'missing the mark'. Don't know how simple it really is, but I know its ugly.
This message has been edited by oldmanrip on Mar 22, 2009 6:34 PM This message has been edited by oldmanrip on Mar 22, 2009 6:32 PM This message has been edited by oldmanrip on Mar 22, 2009 6:30 PM This message has been edited by oldmanrip on Mar 22, 2009 6:30 PM
Scott, of course it's not easy to distill down. It has taken 2000 years for Christianity to evolve to the complex tangled ball of string that it is, or stinking ball of wax, and it won't give up easily. There is a built in stop everytime you try to unravel a bit of that string. But I'm sure you are up to the task.
Like Brent said, the goal should be to overcome almost everything that is practiced as Christianity in the world. That doesn't mean that none of it has value, but it does mean that we must have come past everything.
hmmm I like Mutter's thoughts on this more than 'overcoming' - though I think I hear Brent's point there and am just reacting to the term. I would like to see it more as a journey through Christianity than an objective to overcome it - though perhaps that's all semantics.
I do happen to be one who takes the Lord's Prayer very very seriously since it is one of the few directives that Jesus gave - and that prayer containing 'on earth, as it is in heaven' requires, in my opinion, much more contemplation of our journey in relationship with Christ Jesus/God and less focus on 'hereafter'. I figure I'll have PLENTY of time to focus on the hereafter later - an eternity in fact - and would rather focus on my relationship with God in the here and now.
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