Not even going to define it because it seems there are so many definitions and I'm looking for information/opinions/beliefs and don't want to sway things one way or another.

What are your thoughts on Christian Mysticism?

Are you a Christian mystic?

Is Christian mysticism good, bad, Christ-based or evil?

Look forward to learning - and figured this forum was a good one to flush out any strong opinions on the topic!

IF to be a mystic means to be Spiritual then Jesus was the Master Mystic. I would suppose the word mystic has roots in the word mystery but that is a supposition on my part.

Words mean what the human race say they mean. Sounds mean what the human race say they mean. Dan Webster did quite well at setting a standard. Words are mere sounds and Dan Webster tackled the science so that we may enjoy the art. When I hear arguments on what the proper name or sound we should use when speaking of the Son of God for example I begin to question our basic intellengence. We come together on matters when we hear what our hearts are saying. We unite or we divide at the level of our hearts.

Many arguments politically and religiousely occur because the very words used mean something different [in degree] to different people. Sometimes arguments are actual differences in matters of a world view or a paradigm.

So, my opinion for what it's worth is that Christian mystics are legit and needed. You see how I have used the term.

I suppose one of the most famous Christian mystics of recent history was Thomas Merton. When I was into Zen I read a couple of his books. ("A Day in the Life of a Stranger" and "The Seven Story Mountain" were the titles as I recall.) I tried to keep this Eastern link because I missed the "mystical" experiences of Zen after I became a believer. Too much gear grinding, though. There is a lot I appreciate about Merton but for myself I never could get the two to come together. So, I guess I would view the term, as I understand it, as an oxymoron. There's no telling what the term might mean today but if you google Desert Fathers I think you will find the beginning of the road for the classical meaning.

To me there is no doubt that there are Spiritual things that are to big for the intellect, but in the sense that we are alive in the realm of life which is happening in the realm of the Spiritual and the Spiritual is way beyond the outer dimensions of the "life" realm. All the mental coaxing we can produce won't shove us past the walls of our limitations.

>>What are your thoughts on Christian Mysticism?< <br>

Christian mysticism is an important and, I would argue, necessary element of the Christian faith.

>>Are you a Christian mystic?< <br>

While I've read some stuff by Christian mystics and can appreciate and learn from them, it's not something I can totally 'get'.

>>Is Christian mysticism good, bad, Christ-based or evil?< <br>

As I said above, I think it's an important part of Christianity. Different members of the body contribute different things to the faith to make it a complete whole. I believe it to be good AND Christ-centred, but it is not the only way of understanding/experiencing the Christian faith.

I think I am more of realist then the other... and I prefer to leave mysticism and that stuff for others. The gospel is not subjective but objective; it is a fact (for believers) and we must accept it as such. One believes (John 3:16) and we are born anew. Now it could be argued that the "believing" is subjective but the object of our belief is real and factual ).

So, I looked up mystic in Webster and he says "spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect". I do believe that we cannot know all about God and His workings or that such could be beyond our intellect or capacity to grasp, but I would/could never hold forth specifics of such as factual.

mystic |mistik|
noun
a person who seeks by contemplation and self-surrender to obtain unity with or absorption into the Deity or the absolute, or who believes in the spiritual apprehension of truths that are beyond the intellect

<<< The gospel is not subjective but objective; it is a fact (for believers) and we must accept it as such. One believes (John 3:16) and we are born anew. Now it could be argued that the "believing" is subjective but the object of our belief is real and factual ). >>>


....and yet you refute me again and again with the comment that the attributes of God cannot be grasped. Therefore, you believe in what you cannot grasp. Doesn't that make you a mystic?

Scott you're beautiful! You won't let anyone by with anything.

If we have a faith in what cannot be seen we are indeed a mystic at some level. Some of us just don't like the sound of it because [realism] sounds so much closer to where we actually like to dwell. Some of us allow just enough of the mystic to live in our lives so that [by faith] we can stop a future judgment of some kind. Does that cut it too short?

When will we stop trying to save ourselves [by faith] and allow Him to actually restore us? How many of us are using faith rather than giving ourselves over to faith? Paul was a great mystic and John was another outstanding one of a little different hue. Do not forget Peter the rough and tumble fisherman.

Scott; I first wrote the post, ending with the question whether that made me a mystic, but I removed it. ???

I guess we may not really know ourselves very well.

You are quite right Hank, it is quite an undertaking to know ourselves. Many times I don't know myself. It says to know thyself, however!

On the other hand what is required to make something factual? Is what we see with our natural eyes factual or is there a greater truth and fact than what we can see with our eyes? Is the creation more real and factual than the creater? Is what we cannot see more real than what we can see? Probing questions.

[who in the world is the we here]? Is it the Baptists? Is it the Mennonites if so which branch? Is it Oral Robert's crowed? Who is it? For one thing it is those who have a seeing Faith! For [we] look not things that can be seen but on things that cannot be seen for the things that can be seen are temporal but the things we cannot see are eternal. Are the eternal things not factual and real? When we dwell upon and continue to see the eternal things we take on the image of the eternal. That's pretty real?

Living Faith that has it's own eye which sees eternal things as real and factual, is this only for those funny ole mystics? Who might the Apostle be speaking of here?

Thank you all for responding - I'm wanting to hang back and enjoy the discussion right now - but am reading avidly! I do want to note, however, that 'Christian Mysticism' is not a new term from what I have been able to find - and it isn't just a matter of googling mysticism - but that the term has been recognized - ala Webster type logic - with particular meaning for many years So I'm not just asking about Christians and Mysticism - but specifically 'Christian Mysticism'. Thanks!

More fodder for the brain/debate:

Christian Mysticism

What is Mysticism?

'To many modern Christians, words like "meditation," "mystic," and "mysticism" bring to mind Eastern religions, not Christianity. Certainly Eastern religions are known for their mysticism; however, mysticism is not only a vital part of the Christian heritage as well, but it is actually the core of Christian spirituality. Mysticism simply means the spirituality of the direct experience of God. It is the adventure of "the wild things of God."

The direct experience of God is a kind of knowing, which goes beyond intellectual understanding. It is not a matter of "belief." It is marked by love and joy, but it is not "emotional experience." In many ways, it is better described by what it is not. To describe what it is, we must use metaphorsthe marriage of the soul to Christ, the death of the "old man" and birth of the "new man," being the "body of Christ."

Jesus proclaimed "I and the Father are one," (Jn. 10.30) showing the world what the union of God and man can be. Christian mysticism is about nothing else but this transforming union.

Christ is the sole end of Christian mysticism. Whereas all Christians have Christ, call on Christ, and can (or should) know Christ, the goal for the Christian mystic is to become Christto become as fully permeated with God as Christ is, thus becoming like him, fully human, and by the grace of God, also fully divine. In Christian teaching this doctrine is known by various namestheosis, divinization, deification, and transforming union.

A common misconception about mysticism is that it's about "mystical experiences," and there are many volumes on such experiences in religious literature. But true mysticism is not focussed on "experiences" (which come and go) but with the lasting experience of God, leading to the transformation of the believer into union with God.
A very, very, very short mystical apologetic.

To know God directly shows that mysticism is different from any passive or legalistic kind of Christianity. It means:

* That while we honor the Scriptures, we want to know God directly, not just through Scripture.
* While we respect our heritage of teachings about God, we want to know God directly, not through doctrines and teachings.
* While we gather in communal worship, we want to know God directly, not just through the Church.

Some readers may find this unsettling. Maybe you believe it doesn't apply to you, because you "know" that your church is purer and more correct than others. Even if that were true, is it a substitute for knowing God directly? Or, you might also feel that trusting the Bible alone gives you knowledge of God directly from the Source. But it was written by mystics, listening to God speaking his Word in their hearts. Is it possible for you to read it directly, without the conceptions of your language, time, culture, and personal history? Are you sure you wouldn't understand it very differently if you were reading it, say, in third-century Damascus?

The religion we call "Christianity" changes, but God is eternal. Mystical faith wants to know this unchanging God to whom Christianity leads us, the One behind the beliefs and the words, the One whom beliefs and words cannot describe. We want to follow Jesus' example more closely, and go beyond the religion about Jesus, and take the religion of Jesus: the knowledge of the Father and unconditional love he had, and urged us to have.
What is a mystic?

I believe that everyone who wants to love unconditionally is a mystic. All children are born mystics, and if you were once a child, you were once a mystic. Christian mysticism is following the example of Christ as he followed the Father. And mysticism is not by any means restricted to Christianity: the Bible says, everyone who loves is begotten of God, and knows God. (1 Jn. 4.7) God speaks in various ways, in every time and every place to "whosoever will." Other pages on this site treat non-Christian mysticism.

Mystics range the gamut of walks of life, from intellectual priests such as Frs. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and Matthew Fox, to laywomen like Bernadette Roberts and Katherine Nelson. The mystic way is old, but timelessit is alive, and ever-new for each one who chooses it. It may be inviting you to begin this adventure of divine transformation and discovery.
A very, very, very short history of mysticism

The term mysticism derives from The Mystical Theology, a tiny treatise written by the greatest Christian writer of the sixth century, Dionysius the Areopagite, a.k.a. Pseudo-Dionysius or St. Denys [the Areopagite]. But Dionysius is in no way the "founder" of Christian mysticism. That honor belongs to none but Jesus the Christ himself. But there was mysticism long before Jesus was born. God "strolled in the Garden" with man (Heb. 'adam). Jacob saw heaven opened. God spoke to Joseph through dreams. Moses communed with God on Sinai. David lost himself in dancing for the Lord.

But when Jesus declared "I and the Father are one," (Jn. 10.30) he proclaimed in himself the union of God and humankind, and he offers it to all who follow him (he gave the power to become sons of God to all who believe. (Jn. 1.12).

From there, the mystic heart is seen in the letters of the apostles: Paul reached the divinized state of losing his "self": I no longer live, but Christ lives in me! (Gal. 2.20) James wrote that every good and perfect gift comes from the Father of Lights, in whom there is no variation nor shadow of turning. (Jas. 1.17) Peter proclaimed that Christ even descended to hell to liberate imprisoned souls, (1 Pet. 3.19) and John understood the most sublime truth of God's essence: God is Love! (1 Jn. 4.8,16). This is only the beginning. Every century has been influenced by Christian mysticsfrom apostles and martyrs, Church Fathers and Desert Mothers, to monks and nuns of religious orders, to the lay mysticsmen and women and boys and girls in every century, in every denomination, in every walk of life.

source:http://frimmin.com/faith/mysticismintro.php

Thoughts?

I found your discourse comforting rather than unsettling. Good stuff!