"Sophia: "I could never say that I have abandoned being a pacifist. I never bought into the Mennonite doctrine of pacifism as it is taught. And I'm not refering to H doctrine here as I was not raised H....I'm guessing neither of us are socialists or socialistic - and my only assertation regarding pacifism is that I do not believe that a human being post-Eden can truly be 100% pacifist. I just don't believe that is a human ability."
Tanis:Hopefully not derailing this thread, but I'm curious--what pacifist doctrine do you buy into? I agree with you that post-Eden humanity will never truly be pacifist.
I'm also curious about your thoughts regarding pacifism versus peace-making. Maybe I should start a different thread?"
I think a new thread sounds like a good idea, Tanis.
I don't buy into a pacifist doctrine. I had to re-read what I wrote - and see where I confused on that. I was brought up in a Mennonite - non-H church - from age 8 on - and pacifism was duly preached on a regular basis - including not taking up arms for your country (not serving in the armed forces) - and even peace officers - police - etc. - was not seen as a good occupation - though interestingly - I didn't realize that until just a few years ago!
The 'don't serve in the armed forces' part was always clearly stated - the other was just frowned upon if it occurred. I never became a member of the Mennonite church/conference although I was baptized (by an ex-H). While there are a few areas of Mennonite doctrine that I struggled with - this was the biggie for me - even as a pre-teen when I was baptized.
I personally believe that peace should be sought first through non-armed methods in all cases. But I also recognize that a time comes for protection of society that involves arming oneself - or respecting and standing behind the arming of those who protect society. I also fully acknowledge that I would arm myself with whatever I had at my disposal - including my acrylic nails gouging into eyes - to protect my children. The pacifist doctrine that I was brought up in would espouse pacifism to turn the other cheek meaning that even if my children or my spouse were being hurt, that I would not take up arms or defend myself. While I see the great good that was done by martyrs (perhaps that should even be capitalized?) throughout history in the name of just causes - and in the name of religion in many cases - I do not believe that Jesus calls us to all be martyrs and allow our children/family to be hurt when we can prevent it.
All that said - I'm also extremely anti-gun, personally!
So to answer what seems to be the next inevitable question when I speak to Mennonites about my non-pacifist doctrinal belies - no - I don't own a gun. I totally recognize that I'm a bit of an oxymoronic individual. My first husband was a hunter - and we had rifles as well as small arms in the house - including a revolver in the nightstand. When he passed away - I had his brother - who is an FBI agent - come to the house the next day and take every single gun. I had never been very comfortable with them in the house - even those that were not loaded and were solely for the purpose of killing the deer and elk that I enjoyed eating. My fear - I am sure - had much to do with my not feeling safe around the guns myself as I was not a trained shooter - though my husband did take me to the firing range once and I did at least fire the gun so that I knew how it reacted. I still miss that deer and elk meat sometimes!
I do, however, own a couple of good-sized knives that reside in the kitchen knife block - and as I said - I would protect my children's - and my husband's as well if he was somehow incapacitated at the time - life with a weapon that I could find at hand - if our home was invaded or such.
I've never met a Christian who was able to stand by while their family was harmed and they had the OPTION to defend. If such testimony exists with a member on this site - I'd love to hear the story of how you accomplished that. I assert that a human - Christian or not - will never be a true pacifist when given an option of inflicting harm in a non-peaceful manner when faced with their family being in danger. And some of the strongest-minded pacifists that I have discussed this with WERE non-Christian. Christians don't get the lock on this one - it's just become part of the doctrine of some denominations!
'Nuff thoughts for ya?
