The Jews had their own peculiar ways which were based on the Old Covenant and the Lord followed those traditions in choosing a bride.
The Jews had no dating or courtship. Marriage to them was a practical legal matter, established by a contract and carried through by exacting procedure. When a young man or Israel in Jesus time, saw the girl he wanted or the girl his father said he wanted, he would approach her with a marriage contract. He would go to her house with a covenant (a true legal agreement), giving the terms by which he would propose marriage. The most important consideration in the contract was the price the bridegroom would be willing to pay, to marry this particular bride. If the bridegroom was willing to sacrifice hard cash for his bride, he was showing his love in a most tangible way. Also, it was a favor to his future father-in-law. Back in those days of farming and heavy labor, it was somewhat a liability to raise a daughter. A family with sons would prosper more because of the built-in work force. A family with daughters would expect to recoup their losses when the girls were old enough to attract bridegrooms.
The bridegroom would present himself to the bride with his agreement, offering to pay a suitable price for her and she and her father would consider his contract. If the terms were suitable, the bride and groom would drink a cup of wine together and this would seal the bargain. The cup was very significant as it signified the bridegrooms willingness to sacrifice in order to have this bride and it showed the brides willingness to enter into this marriage.
The groom then would pay the price, which was no modest token but was set so that the bride would be a costly item (that was the idea). The young man had no delusions that he was getting something for nothing. He would pay dearly, to marry the girl of his choice.
When that matter was settled, the groom would depart. He would make a little speech to his bride, saying: I go to prepare a place for you and would return to his fathers house where he would build her a bridal chamber, a little mansion where they would have their future honeymoon.
The bridegroom would actually build a separate building on his fathers property or decorate a room in his fathers house. The bridal chamber had to be beautiful and it had to be stocked with provisions since the bride and groom would remain inside for 7 days. The construction project would take most of a year and the father of the groom would be the judge of when it was finished so the young man could go claim his bride.
The bride was obliged to do a lot of waiting. She would take the time to gather her trousseau and be ready when her bridegroom came. Custom provided that she had to have an oil lamp ready in case he came late at night in the darkness because she had to be ready to travel at a moments notice. During this long time of waiting, she was referred to as consecrated (set apart), bought with a price. She was truly a lady in waiting but there was no doubt that her groom would return. Even though there were other young women available, he would return to the one whom he made a contract with, as he paid a very high price for her.
The bride would wear her veil whenever she stepped out of her house so other young men would realize she was spoken for and would not try to approach her with another contract. (Today, the bride of Christ wears a veil those not understanding our covenant, try to make other contracts with us so that we violate the one we have with our Bridegroom. We are to resist those other offers and wait only for the One Who paid such a high price for us.)
As the year went on, the bride would assemble her sisters and bridesmaids and whoever would go with her to the wedding when the bridegroom came and they would each have their oil lamps ready. They would wait at her house every night in case the groom would come, along with his groomsmen and sweep them all away to a joyous and sudden wedding ceremony.
Meanwhile, the bridegroom would be building and decorating with all that he had. His father would inspect the chamber from time to time to see if it were ready. If we came along at some point of construction and saw the young man working, we might ask whens the big day, he would say only my father knows that.
When the chamber was ready, the bridegroom would assemble his young friends to accompany him on the exciting trip to claim the bride. The big moment had arrived and the bridegroom was more than ready, we can be sure. He and his young men would set out in the night, making every attempt to completely surprise the bride; thats the romantic part. All Jewish brides were stolen. The Jews had a special understanding of a womans heart. What a thrill for her, to be abducted and carried off into the night, not by a stranger but by the one who loved her so much that he paid a very high price for her.
At the brides house, things had better be ready. To be sure, the bride would be surprised since the groom would try to arrive at midnight, while she was sleeping. The oil lamps were ready and the bride had her veil. She may have been sleeping in her wedding dress, she definitely was surprised. There were rules to be observed in consideration of a womans feelings. The groom couldnt just rush in on her. Actually as the excited party of young men would get close to her house, they were obliged to give a warning. Someone in the party would shout. When the bride heard that shout, she knew her young man would be there shortly. She only had time to light her lamp, grab her honeymoon clothing and go. Her sisters and bridesmaids who wanted to attend also, had to have their lamps trimmed and ready. Naturally no one would travel through ancient Israel with its rocky terrain, in the dark of night without carrying a lamp.
The groom and his men would charge in, grab the girls and make off with them. The father of the bride and brothers would look the other way. People in the village might be awakened by the happy voices of the young people carrying the oil lamps through the streets and thats how they knew a wedding was going on. Those looking on would not know who the bride was because she was still wearing her veil but she would be returning a week later with her groom and then her veil would be off. At the return of the bride with her bridegroom, all the people would know just who got married and they would realize the total significance of the wedding.
When the wedding party reached the house of the grooms father, the bride and groom would enter their chamber and shut the door. No one else would enter. The grooms father would have assembled the wedding guests (his friends) and they would be ready to celebrate the marriage. Since it would be a total of seven days until the bride and groom would go out of the chamber, it was hard to plan for. The celebrating wouldnt begin immediately as the marriage would first have to be consummated. The Jews were a most law-abiding people and the law provided that the bride and groom become one before their marriage was recognized. A friend of the bridegroom would stand near the door and the friend would then go to the wedding guests and announce the good news. The celebration would then begin and it would continue for the entire week.
At the end of the week, the bride and groom would make their long-awaited appearance to the cheers of the crowd and there would be a joyous meal (a marriage supper). At this point, the bride would have discarded her veil, since she was now a married woman and all would see who it was that the groom had chosen.
After the marriage supper, the bride and groom would depart and go to their own house which had been provided by the groom. The bride of Christ will spend seven years in heaven at the home of the grooms Father and then we will return with our Bridegroom to occupy the Kingdom He has prepared for us.
Readers of the Gospel can easily see the beautiful analogies between this complex procedure and the manner in which the Lord Himself called out His chosen Bride.
NOTE: I tried to rewrite this in a sort of book report format although I did not use the entire booklet of 33 pages but only about 5. The booklet I used was written by Zola Levitt (a Christian Jew). I originally purchased the booklet in the late 1970s or early 1980s, yet the booklet is still available through their ministry store. I would strongly encourage all readers of this report, to purchase their own copy of this booklet entitled A Christian Love Story. The booklet goes on to explain The Covenant, The Cup, The Price, The Departure, The Return, The Bridal Chamber and The Marriage Supper.
I believe when I purchased the booklet, I paid something like $1 or $1.50 for it. I suppose its a bit more now however.
When I want a clearer vision of a Biblical portion, I consult a Jewish person as they have a very unique knowledge of the Holy Scriptures.
Although Zola Levitt is no longer with us, he went home to be with his maker, years ago. The address of the continuing ministry is:
ZOLA
P.O. Box 12268
Dallas, Texas 75225
WARNING It cannot be long now!!! Better get ready!!! You wont want to be left behind!!! Israel became a nation May 15, 1948 and God promises that the generation, who saw the budding of the fig tree [Matthew 24: 32-35], shall not pass until the Son of man returns. Its been more than 61 years now. The next thing well hear about, just before Christ comes in the air [I Thessalonians 4:16-17], is a new world order (have you ever heard about this?). Soon after the true church is snatched out of this world, the new world order will be formed. It will last a little less than 7 years. See if the following book report rings a bell for you:
Recently a couple of friends and I were discussing the idea that they might feel responsible for electing the antichrist into government. The other friend pointed out that prophetically the tabernacle would need to be re-built and sacrifices would need to again start taking place in order for the anti-christ to step forward.
This discussion made me think... what all are some of the specific prophecies that need to happen before Jesus's return?
>>How quickly things are moving- This week for the first time Israel said it is willing to accept a palestine state for peace.<
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On the other hand, a senior Hamas official, Ahmed Youseff, said this after Carter's visit to Palestine on June 17,(taken from a website) - Ahmed Youssef, the deputy Hamas foreign minister, said Gaza's Palestinians were pleased to receive Carter.
"The people think this is a historic visit," Youssef told The Associated Press on Wednesday, describing Carter as "somebody very knowledgeable about the conflict and very sincere in the way he understands the conflict."
But Youssef said Hamas turned down Carter's policy requests.
"The visit has not led to a significant change. Hamas finds the conditions unacceptable," he said. "Recognizing Israel is completely unacceptable."
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I see no chance of peace between Israel and Palestine. No matter what Netanyahu gives up, it will never be enough. The Palestinians(government)will only be happy when all the Jews are eradicated and Jerusalem as their capital city.
Some tidbits of info taken from the June Last Trumpet Newsletter -
The Strange Forces of Barack Obama!
On May 1st, 2009, which happens to be the witches' high cross-quarter sabat of Beltaine, Reuters News Service featured the following headline: "Obama Reveling in U.S. Power Unseen in Decades." (1) It was no coincidence that the headline didn't say "power not seen" but rather "power unseen." Truly, there are unseen powers at work. Dr. Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati, referred to that unseen power as the controlling unknown.
The power of Obama intensified even more with the approaching of Beltaine when on April 29th Senator Arlen Specter, a Republican from Pennsylvania, became a Democrat and greatly shifted the power in the U.S. Senate in favor of Obama. (2) The people of Pennsylvania elected Specter because they wanted a Republican, and thus, he turned his back to the electorate of his state. This is exactly the kind of man that Obama likes to have around him.
The antichrist overtones and rank blasphemy that surround the Obama presidency is increasing in a sickening crescendo. To commemorate the 100th day of Obama in office, a painting entitled "The Truth" was to be placed on display at New York City's Union Square. The picture featured Obama in front of the presidential seal with arms in a crucifix position and wearing a crown of thorns. His head was bowed down as a suffering messiah. President Obama did not object to the painting, but thankfully, there was such a public outcry against this blasphemy that the event had to be cancelled! (3)
Obama made it very clear on his 100th day in office that he is "remaking America." He didn't say rebuilding, but remaking! Does Obama consider himself to be the Mighty Maker? While honoring himself at a dinner commemorating his 100th day in office, Obama said the following words: "I would like to talk about what my administration plans to achieve in the next 100 days. During the second 100 days, we will design, build and open a library dedicated to my first 100 days. I believe that my next 100 days will be so successful, that I will complete them in 72 days - and on the 73rd day I will rest." (4) The inference of deity here is obvious, but why the 73rd day? The 100th day of Obama was April 29th, 2009. Seventy-two days added to that brings us to July 10th, 2009. Obama intends to rest from his creative labors on Saturday, July 11th. Saturday is the seventh day of the week, but in addition to that, we must consider the date itself as 07/11/09. Since zeros must be disregarded and since witches use backward masking, we find that if we look at Obama's 73rd day backwards it is 9-11-7. The number seven indicates sanctity and completion, and we all know the significance of 9-11. What is this man planning? Time will tell! It is also interesting to note that on March 31st, 2009, the Traverse City Record-Eagle reported a story out of Washington stating that a new $3.5 billion laser has just been completed and is now ready for use. The word laser is an acronym for Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation. This laser was developed by the National Ignition Facility of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in California. This laser is capable of simulating the energy force of a hydrogen bomb and the sun itself! (5) I am reminded of Revelation 13:13, regarding the second beast, which reads as follows: "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."
Another interesting incident took place when Obama recently made a speech at Georgetown University. Obama refused to come to this Roman Catholic Jesuit School unless the symbol IHS was covered up. The many statues, crucifixes and other relics didn't bother Obama, but he could not tolerate the letters IHS. Those letters are understood to mean "Jesus the Saviour of Man." This is what Obama could not tolerate. (6) The school did comply and covered up those letters in order to receive the President. In John 5:43 Jesus warned us as follows: "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." While I do not believe in any religious symbols, the inference from Obama is obvious, and he is showing his true antichrist colors! Another point that must be made regarding Obama is that he declared he would be a "no show" for the National Day of Prayer, and even though he signed the proclamation, he said he would be distancing himself from it. (7) Who is this strange President? Do we really know him, or do we really want to know him? On May 5th, 2009, the Associated Press released a story about Obama and Vice President Biden and their favorite fast food restaurant in Arlington, Virginia. It is an independent hamburger joint called Ray's Hell Burgers. (8) The hamburgers there are known as "hell burgers," and the media referred to Obama as having been to hell and back. Hell is certainly nothing to joke about!
Another amazing incident took place on the day before Obama's 100th day in office. A Boeing 747 aircraft, resembling Air Force One, buzzed the Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor and then flew at an altitude of only 1,000 feet above Ground Zero. The 747 was being chased by a F-16 fighter the entire time. Southern Manhattan went into a panic as offices were evacuated and people ran down the streets screaming for fear that it was another 9-11 attack. It turned out to be an Obama photo opportunity that cost nearly one-third of a million dollars. Obama claimed he knew nothing about it and would look into it, even though it was discovered that the Federal officials threatened the New York Police Department, the Secret Service, the FBI, and the Mayor's office that if the secret got out, there would be "Federal sanctions against them." (9) New Yorkers were outraged at the stupidity of such an event. What kind of a test was this, and what will happen next? Soon we will know!
The Rise of the Marxist-Socialist Reich!
The reports continue to come in! The jobless rate is climbing in forty-six states with California at 11.2 percent! (10) The U.S. Government is now borrowing fifty cents for every dollar it spends. (11) Recent stress tests of the big banks revealed that bad assets are triple of what they were thought to be previously. (12) On March 20th, two major corporate credit unions were taken over by the Federal Government, and these two essentially affect all of the subordinate and small credit unions as well. (13) On April 17th, 2009, Federal regulators closed American Sterling Bank, based in Missouri, and the Great Basin Bank, based in Nevada. (14)
The automobile industries are all either in bankruptcy or close to it. The Federal Government is seizing them all as the Marxist-Socialist plan of Obama marches on. On April 27th, the Federal Government became the majority owner of General Motors! (15) Cities, states, counties, so-called free enterprise, and businesses of every kind are in deep trouble, and they are being forced to stick their snouts in the trough of the Federal Government! In fact, there have been so many bailouts that a top-level government economist is calling for a new agency to be set up. (16) Just as the Department of Homeland Security was set up after the twin towers came down and we had an unprecedented new American Gestapo, we will now see a new Department of Federal Bailouts. This would be nothing less than a Kremlin-like Politburo to administer and enforce socialism and bring an end to free enterprise. Apparently Nikita Khrushchev was right when he said America would be taken over by Communism from within!
The Swine Behind the Flu!
On April 24th, 2009, Reuters News Service featured the following headline: "Deadly New Flu Strain Erupts in Mexico." (17) On April 27th, 2009, Mexico City was hit by a powerful 6.0 magnitude earthquake. (18) It was quite a series of events. On April 16th, Obama was in Mexico. Eleven days later came the flu outbreak, and the Mexican official that first greeted Obama and shook his hand was dead from the flu. Three days later came the earthquake! Almost immediately, the World Health Organization declared "international concern" over the so-called "swine flu." (19) The CDC, or Center for Disease Control, seemed to know a lot about this flu almost immediately and apparently in advance. The CDC issued the following statement: "A new and unusual strain of swine flu is likely widespread and impossible to contain. This new strain of influenza has shown it can spread easily from person to person. It has been found in several places, and among people who have had no known contact. This suggests that there is an unseen chain of infection and that the virus has been spreading quietly." (20) Without a doubt, this so-called "swine flu" was intentionally manufactured in a laboratory as a designer virus, which can be modified to extremes later.
Shortly after the outbreak, I received an e-mail from a close friend overseas who is a medical doctor and researcher who now practices natural medicine. This man, as a professional, had an user name and password that allowed him to access the U.S. Government's computer data on toxicology and virology. Immediately after he sent the personal e-mail to me, his password and user name to the Government website disappeared and no longer existed. The information I received is that the people who are susceptible to contracting the H1N1 "swine flu" are those who have been vaccinated within the past five years. Their bodies were set up to receive this new flu by their immunizations. I also was informed that the reason why Mexico was chosen as the launching pad for this so-called "epidemic" is because those who have tuberculosis or have had it are especially susceptible to contact H1N1. Mexico has had high numbers of people with tuberculosis. The U.S. Government website also stated that before the outbreak in Mexico, a vial of swine flu H1N1 was unaccounted for and had gone missing while being transported to a Mexican government veterinary science laboratory in Mexico. This report soon disappeared from the government website. We also know that the H1N1 virus is made up of four different genetic pieces from different virus sources and had to be intentionally produced. We know that swine flu can only be transferred to other swine. Avian flu is exclusive to birds and so on. I am sure that a pig, a bird, and a human didn't get together in a conspiracy to produce H1N1.
On May 6th, 2009, ABC News reported that the H1N1 is now expected to mutate into a new deadly strain, which would require people everywhere to receive three successive inoculations to control it. (21) The CDC admitted as far back as January 14th, 2004, that they were mixing avian and human flu viruses in a pandemic study. (22) We can be sure of one thing: all vaccines are poison. They contain decomposed protein from the pustules of sick animals and/or putrefied eggs mixed with carbolic acid, mercury, and formaldehyde. Perhaps that is why autism is epidemic among immunized children and what was once extremely rare (autism) is now quite common. Now we can understand why we now have legislation on the Federal level that protects the makers of vaccines from lawsuits if the government declares a public health emergency. (23)
The government is constantly trying to control the bodies, souls, and minds of the people. That is why they regulate food, drugs, and religion. The Federal Government absolutely hates the health food and vitamin industries because they help people to live longer. Now the Federal Government has threatened General Mills because the company has advertised that using Cheerios reduces cholesterol by 10% in one month. General Mills has provided the evidence, but they have been told that if a food is advertised as having health benefits, it must now be considered a medicine and be properly licensed and regulated. (24) Quite obviously, we cannot think of any food as having specific benefits or it becomes a medicine. Conversely, only food that has no benefits to the body of man can be freely sold without government interference. This is insanity of the first magnitude!
Controlling the Common Herd of Humanity!
It is becoming obvious and evident that true Christians are being singled out by the antichrist conspiratorial powers. On April 12th, 2009, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security published a list of the type of people they are watching. Those who are suspect include the following: religious radicals, opponents of abortion, those who believe in conspiracy "theories," believers in end time prophecy, those who have Ron Paul bumper stickers, those who have radical Christian views, and especially U.S. war veterans. (25) According to Janet Napolitano, Obama's handpicked head of Homeland Security, all veterans are potential terrorists because they are trained in military tactics. All of these so-called "potential terrorists" are listed in a government publication entitled "The Domestic Extremism Lexicon." On May 5th, 2009, the Federal Government was facing such an outcry against their incriminating lexicon that they decided to "pull back" the 11-page document. (26) Pulling back the document, however, does not mean they have had a change of heart or diabolical purpose!
In another Federal attack against true Christianity and the Word of God, the House of Representatives passed the "Hate Crimes Bill" on May 6th, 2009. The bill, known as HR1913, passed with a vote of 249-175. (27) Under the provisions of the bill, Christian ministers can be arrested and convicted if someone commits a hate crime after listening to them speak. If the minister speaks out against abortion or homosexuality, he is responsible for any radical act that follows, no matter who commits it. The penalties range from ten years to life imprisonment. The Obama-controlled Senate is expected to pass this legislation, and Obama stated that he would promptly sign it. Obama's exact words to the U.S. Senate were, "Finalize this bill and take swift action." (28)
Truly, the second coming of Christ is at hand. There is currently underway a new pre-census program in the United States, and Obama has hired 140,000 temporary workers to complete it as quickly as possible. The program is costing 700 million dollars, and the special census workers are not counting people, but rather marking the front door of every home in America with electronic GPS (global positioning satellite) coordinates. (29) Incidentally, the GPS coordinates for the front door of Obama's White House are 38.898590 latitude, and -77.035971 longitude. When you see someone standing one foot from your front door, they are marking the entrance of your dwelling for computer and satellite control purposes.
I recently received a letter from a man who reads the Last Trumpet Newsletter and was going to accept one of these temporary jobs until he found out during orientation that it was a heinous conspiratorial plot. I will not reveal his name, but he informed me that the workers were to stand one foot from the front door of every home and enter the coordinates into a hand-held computerized device. One woman in the orientation class jokingly asked, "What if a person lives in a cave?" The instructor gave the serious answer that she was to go to the entrance of that cave and enter the information. He then said, "There will be no place to hide." The workers were also told that they were not to give any information about their project to anyone or they would be fined and/or jailed! When we realize all of this, we can also better understand why Senator Judd Gregg declined the job of Secretary of Commerce. The Department of Commerce has always been in charge of the U.S. Census. Gregg was told that the Census was being taken away from the Commerce Department and would be under the direct control of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel!
Everything is moving quickly now, and every morning people are waking up to discover that more rights and freedoms have been forfeited. In the state of Wisconsin, a high court, the District 4 Court of Appeals, stated that police can attach GPS units to anyone's automobile without a warrant, cause, or permission! That vehicle is then tracked and watched with perfect timing of every route it takes and every stop it makes. (30)
Resistance to the Obama Administration is rising, however. We know that the state of Texas under Governor Rick Perry, has declared their state to be sovereign and not subject to everything Washington, D.C., is dishing out. The state of South Carolina is now proceeding to do the same thing! (31) In addition to that, on May 5th, 2009, the House members of the state of Oklahoma overrode Governor Brad Henry, who vetoed a resolution to declare Oklahoma a sovereign state! (32) These events are so similar to what happened shortly before the American Civil War! Drastic and amazing things are beginning to happen!
Why all the interest today on what is taking place in Iran?
Distraction?
Just saying a shift is taking place. For years now much talk has been about during the end times the nations would gather against Israel. But with some nations unwilling to not back Israel that has not been very likely. But now with a possible palestine to defend that could bring the nations together.
Good post Howie. The 7 days could be the yrs years of tribulation while the bride ( the believers are with the bridegroom Jesus at His banquest. Of course many don't believe this. calledoutPTL
>>These events are so similar to what happened shortly before the American Civil War!<
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I wouldn't be surprised if it came to that. Of course, internal fighting is what has been part of the undoing of other empires over the course of history, so it may well be that we are seeing the (beginning(?) of the) end of the American empire.
That is the same thing the monkey said when it got it's tail caught in the fan, "It won't be long now."
Seriously, quit reading things into the scriptures it never meant.
"This generation" (the disciples) had not passed away when Jesus came in judgment to Israel by destroying the temple/Jerusalem and the old covenant in 70 AD thereby making it impossible to continue to sacrifice.
How much clearer do you want it to be?
John clearly writes, that the "antichrist" was present when he was writing.
1 John 2:18 It is the last time...whereby we know it is the last time.
This was written shortly before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.
Why is it that the "end times" are upon us whenever times get bleak? How long will people continue to make themselves irrelevant to the very people they are trying to reach? No wonder Jesus said that the children of this world are wiser in this generation than the children of light. Most professing christians are no different than the scribes and teachers of that day. They refuse to open their eyes to truth and prefer to have their ears tickled by the sensational and then say they see clearly, therefore remain blind to truth.
Visted with JW the other day. They don't believe in hell either and they are the called ones also. Their main theme was "by reason." They brought their own book along so Mr calledoutPTL pointed out that they were using man's interpretation of the word like a lot of people do. calledoutPTL
This message has been edited by erv123 on Jun 22, 2009 11:40 AM
If everything already has happened as said in Revelations, history would have it recorded somewhere. After all hail that size would have been recorded somewhere, a disaster like having a third part of the trees were burned up from the fire from heaven, a third part of the sea became blood and all the other tribulations that took place, it would have been in the history books. God's judgement has been on His people, cities, and etc, but nowhere has it been recorded that the whole earth experienced God's wrath. There will be a new heaven and a new earth. If it was a new earth, scientists wouldn't say the world was millions years old. It would only be 2 thousand years old.
Yes, I take the word literally and spiritually. Haven't met or heard of anyone smart enough to say which is which, so I say it means both.
The Jews are making plans to rebuild the temple. What nation has ever been in the news as much as Iseral and their wars?
As far as saying the end is right around the corner, most people fill there are more prophecies to be fulfilled before the end. God's timing is not ours. When Jesus was talking about "this generation," I believe He was talking about the generation that would see the beginning of end times.
Sorry Mark, As Howie Mandell would ask, deal or no deal, I'd say "No deal" ( I did read the book you wanted me to with your theory.) calledoutPTL
Sorry Mark, As Howie Mandell would ask, deal or no deal, I'd say "No deal"
And I reiterate,
Most professing christians are no different than the scribes and teachers of that day. They refuse to open their eyes to truth and prefer to have their ears tickled by the sensational and then say they see clearly, therefore remain blind to truth.
Well, in regards to whether some prophesies still need to happen, I don't think there is anywhere in recorded history where man has to have a mark in his hand or forehead in order to buy and sell, unless there is some way to explain that away.
Can someone explain this verse?
15And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
GM,
We would agree that revelation is full of metaphors would we not?
If the mark of the beast is literal then so is Prov 3:3 Let not mercy and truth forsake you: bind them around your neck; write them on the table of your heart.
Or how about this one, Gal 5:2 ...if you are circumcised Christ shall profit you nothing.
Do not lightly brush aside that John clearly says that the time IS at hand for the things he was writing about.
What's the possibility that in 2000 years from now people will not understand the metaphor "don't drink the kool aid".
And Calledout concerning the 100# hail stones, if you read history it speaks clearly of when that happened.
Mark,
Yes, I agree that Revelation has a number of metaphors and I also agree that that book is very hard to understand, but in the case of the mark of the beast we can see it literally happening before our very eyes such as the chip under the skin and it is designed at least partly for that very reason(buy and sell). But I do wonder what people thought of that verse 200 years ago.(no computers or electronics)
Xep and I had that dialogue about fear awhile back and I was going to mention that Revelation it seems to me is nothing but fear. If we take Xep's thought that we shouldn't worry about the future and what is to come upon us(not have fear)then why was Revelations written?
This message has been edited by GMman1 on Jun 21, 2009 9:51 PM
Revelation is the lawsuit that God filed against the Jews and their system.
It was written to warn the early christians to get out of Jerusalem because it's destruction and doom was imminent. History records that NOT ONE believer was trapped or killed in Jerusalem when it was destroyed because they heeded the warnings of Jesus in Matt 24 and fled for Pella when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies. They clearly understood it's message of imminent destruction.
We are clearly living post Rev 21 where God tabernacles with man and 22:4 where we see the face of God and his name is written in our forehead. 22:14 where we freely eat from the tree of life and vs 15 outside of this kingdom are the ones living a carnal life...(clearly alive but living in death not in life)
Am I saying this earth is heaven? NO
I am saying it is high time we understand who we are in Christ and all that is available to the believer. We are for the most part living in the past or the future while bypassing all that is available to us today.
>It was written to warn the early christians to get out of Jerusalem because it's destruction and doom was imminent. History records that NOT ONE believer was trapped or killed in Jerusalem when it was destroyed because they heeded the warnings..<
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Boy, I wish people were like that today.....like when there is a massive hurricane bearing down on you and you sit there ???? Katrina?
Most professing christians are no different than the scribes and teachers of that day. They refuse to open their eyes to truth and prefer to have their ears tickled by the sensational and then say they see clearly, therefore remain blind to truth. --It will be sensational, I agree. Thank God, I won't have to see it. Even when it starts happening,some people will be blind until it is too late.
Maybe people don't want to believe in hell either because then they might have to start being accountable for what they do. God is God of love, but He is also a God of judgement. But this I do know which I think you will agree, no man can judge another man's servant.
I've seen people so full of love and mercy, it is like an adornment around their necks as the verse you quoted in Proverbs.
History of hail: Never to that size of hail over the ENTIRE EARTH. I will reiterate again, God'S wrath has been over nations, cities, people and even His chosen people, (Jews) but not over the entire earth at one time.
Defination of a metaphore" the use of a word or phrase in a way that is different from its ususal use, to show a likeness to something else, (The curtain of night" is a metaphor that likens "night" to a "curtain" of concealment. Come on quys and gals, the Bible has some metaphors but it doesn't change the meaning of the Holy Writ. calledoutPTL
>It was written to warn the early christians to get out of Jerusalem because it's destruction and doom was imminent. History records that NOT ONE believer was trapped or killed in Jerusalem when it was destroyed because they heeded the warnings..< <br>---Where did they flee to? Was it like Jesus wrote, don't even go back to his house for anything? Did the tribulation follow those days?Was the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the starts shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken? (Mat 24:16) Did the Son of man come in clouds of heaven with power and great glory? Did He gather his elect together? Did heaven or earth pass away? ---Now I don't know of anyone who has the exact details right of how it is going to happen, but enough is known to know something will happen. There are enough details to know that it hasn't happened yet. calledoutPTL
Hi, Mark, I read the scriptures and based my beliefs on that before the Left Behind Series were out so they didn't influence me or any other book. To me, I find it follows the character of God and His promises all the way from Gen to Rev. At that time, I didn't trust any other book except the Bible. Now I read them and sort the truth out by cross-referencing them with the word, by who they are talking to, why, and reading the verse before, after, the chapter before and after, the book before and after, the whole NT, the whole OT to find out if so. As I said before, h don't believe the tribulation belief so I wasn't taught that. What I am doing is trying to get people to read the scriptures and ask themselves the whys and wheres and not follow any book, person or theory. No man has all the answers, that is why the Bible is a new book every time you read it through. Any man's beliefs could be considered a theory. Just smile and go on, your salvation is not dependent on if you belief it or not. calledoutPTL
Well, maybe LaHaye didn't influence your thinking, but you sure didn't come up with the tribulation theory on your own... Which televangelist was it that sold you on it? Oral, Jimmy, Jerry, or Pat?
Wrong again, Steve, we didn't have a TV or listen to the radio preachers at that time. Your striking out again. Read what I wrote, I didn't read other books on religion either at that time.
Thats three strikes, sorry your out. calledoutPTL
Calledout,
Since in all of your sorting the truth out..."Now I read them and sort the truth out by cross-referencing them with the word, by who they are talking to, why, and reading the verse before, after, the chapter before and after, the book before and after, the whole NT, the whole OT to find out if so".
In all your studies it seems you still had a few unanswered questions let's go and see if we can find the answers.
Where did they flee to?
Pella, not found in scripture but is found in history texts.
Was it like Jesus wrote, don't even go back to his house for anything?
According to historical accounts when Vespacian came down and surrounded the city he received word that Nero died and was summoned back to Rome. When they left Jerusalem the believers all fled to Pella and when Titus came back several years later (70 AD) Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed.
Did the tribulation follow those days?
Historical accounts say it was so terrible that a woman roasted her own child because of hunger which Moses prophesied about in Deuteronomy 28:56-57. Matt 24:21 Is clearly talking about the time period during the destruction of Jerusalem (see Matt 24:1-2 The setting of the chapter is Jesus telling the disciples about the destruction of the temple and the disciples asking when this was going to happen) and this verse says that NEVER again will there EVER be a tribulation as bad as it was during that time.
Was the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the starts shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken?
Did the Son of man come in clouds of heaven with power and great glory? Did He gather his elect together? Did heaven or earth pass away?
What does the scripture say? Matt 24:29 It says that it will happen IMMEDIATELY after the tribulation of THOSE days. (Emphasis mine) That period of time was nearly 2000 years ago. Since the literal sun moon and stars did not fall that should be your first clue it is talking symbolically.
Now I don't know of anyone who has the exact details right of how it is going to happen, but enough is known to know something will happen.
Read your history and you may know more of the exact details that did happen.
There are enough details to know that it hasn't happened yet.
Whose details? God's or man's?
This message has been edited by freeNdeed on Jun 22, 2009 6:52 PM
"Well, maybe LaHaye didn't influence your thinking, but you sure didn't come up with the tribulation theory on your own... Which televangelist was it that sold you on it? Oral, Jimmy, Jerry, or Pat?"
So true! The end-time tribulation theory is not in the Bible, so it had to come from somebody like LaHaye. The Bible clearly describes thunder, trumpets etc. and then says "every eye shall see Him. It also says that His reward is with Him.(Rev.22:12) No second chances, no repeat trips...
If one gets in a certain preconceived vein of thought in the scriptures one can come up with the LaHaye teaching. I'm speaking of a superficial vein. Deeper and fuller study many times clears the air on these things. I hope that clears the air but it will not for everyone. The vein we're in, carries us like a stream until we jump out of it and go for the deeper and real truths.
The abomination of desolations did occur in 70 A.D. when the temple was destroyed in Jerusalem; the holiest place in the temple was utterly dessicrated. They came in like a bunch of bulls in a china cabinet.
People left their homes and ran to the hills for protection from the[supposedly] gold-seeking Titus; there shall never be a tribulation again like there was in those days. Jesus said this. That generation is past and we are going on to much higher things.
It's a commercial message; believing men and women like to hear commercial messages. If the believers can be gone when devastation occurs, this is commercial to the natural mind. By george the ole sinners are going to get it after we leave. It sells to the natural mind. It sells movies and it sells books like the "Late Great Planet Earth" by Hal Linsey.
The real truth of God at every level will not be considered commercial to the natural mind. To the Spiritual mind the truth of God at all levels is glorious!
Things are coming out of their closets for refining and even harsh judgments now. Nothing will remain hidden that's hidden. The trumpets are beginning to blow. Did we expect to see and hear brass trumpets? We are approaching the times of the restoration of all things!
An interesting and even scary movie does not establish the truth of God for this planet. God's purposes from the beginning, establishes this. Those who remain after the judgment, remain to establish His righteousness once a [Spiritual coming] of Christ to judge the world is come. This judgment will slice between husband and wife at times and the one will be taken out in judgment while the other remains to help establish the rightousness of Christ Jesus!
The believer's escape is into Christ Jesus and there to learn of Him rather than flying away into the jet-stream somwhere. Get real my friends, all of us. We're not making a good selling movie here. No one's making any money here. We can be real.
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 23, 2009 2:07 PM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 23, 2009 11:08 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 23, 2009 11:07 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 23, 2009 10:48 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 23, 2009 10:47 AM
I understand that there are four main schools of interpretation. The Preterist holds that Revelation is simply a picture of the conditions prevalent in the Roman empire of the late first century, cast in the form of vision and prophecy to conceal its meaning from hostile pagans. The Historical view contends that the book represents in symbolic form the entire course of Church history from the time of its writing to the final consummation, and that the mystical figures and actions described therein can be identified with human events in history. The Futurist, on the basis of the threefold division given in Rev 1:19, suggests that the things which thou sawestrefer to the immediate environment of the seer and the vision of Christ (1:9-19), the things which are denote the churches of Asia, or the Church age, which they symbolize (2:1-3:22), and the things which shall be hereafter relate to those events which will attend the return of Christ and the establishment of the city of God. The Idealist or Symbolic school treats Revelation as purely a dramatic picture of the conflict of good and evil which persists in every age, but which cannot be applied exclusively to an particular historical period.
Which interpretation are you? calledoutPTL
This message has been edited by erv123 on Jun 25, 2009 8:14 AM
Were you asking me or the entire group? I personally believe that many believers are preoccupied with this book rather than seeing Jesus Himself all the way through it! This book is powerful! Many preoccupied believers walk in lesser places because we have both added and subtracted from this revelation!
The Spirit of the Lord spoke in my heart soon after being born again at 34 years old that I should not get into that book until I had a revelation of Christ by way of the books of the Gospel and letters to the Church...
I fully believe that the book of John's revelation of Christ is just that!
It's those things that are true and life-changing in Christ Jesus in a person's life; it's written in symbol form. In this revelation after falling down as a dead man in the power of the Spirit, glorious things of correction, judgement, and glory began to occur within John which he was seeing outpictured in symbol form. The revelation of Christ totally changes us and I am sure that it changed John!
What was true in those churches in the early parts of the revelation are typical things that were true in John and in every other believer as well. If the book is read with the personal thing in mind, one sees the pattern.
The book may well have many other patterns as well because all truth runs parallel. What runs true in a person, runs true in a church and what runs true in a church runs true in a nation. Furthermore what runs true in a person, church, or nation finally runs true in a world. Truth runs parallel.
Rev.:21 This city is not heaven as it is so commonly portrayed. The city John saw coming down [from heaven] near the end of his revelation of Christ Jesus is a symbol of the glorious Bride of Christ with the Son and Father in her as her guiding light! The tree of Life is in her, the leaves of this tree are given for the healing of the nations, the river of life is in her to give Eternal Life, and the throne of God is within her with Christ and the Father ruling! This is true for the individual and for the church corporate and for every nation and for the entire world ultimately!
It says that Jesus ascended in order to fill all things! Almost immediately He started filling individuals in the baptism of His love! He builds His corporate Church with those whom He has filled! He will finally fill every nation with Himself i.e. with His love! He then observedly has filled the whole world! His continual coming brings both judgments and glory!
As a positional truth He already filled all things in the ascention! Nothing occurs where we can observe it, unless it is already a positional truth in the heavenlies! The reason we can be born of His Spirit for example, is because in the heavenlies this is already the truth about us. The reason we can be healed by His power is because this is already the truth about us in the heavenlies. The works of Jesus are finished! He has already prepared for us a place and He did this at Calvary!
It says; everything is already under the feet of Jesus but not all of this is yet seen. The fullness of the Gospel is beginning to be preached in power! The trumpets are blowing!
Sectarian peoples do well to lay down their sectarianisms and come on in!
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 25, 2009 9:48 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 25, 2009 9:12 AM
I have a question for you. When reading Rev.21 and carefully reading the portions referring to the Bride, how do we reach a conclusion that this Bride is the church? Elsewhere in Rev. John sees the souls of the martyred, throngs around the great sea. But to see the Bride, John went to another place in the heavenlies. Now the purpose of New Jerusalem, (the Bride) is to provide a habitation and seat of government on the New Earth. Nobody without the name of God on their foreheads can go into that place. Doesn't sound like we (those with the name of God) are the Bride.
Someone recently used the "Marriage Supper" scripture in another context. So,if we are those, either with oil in our lamps or those scraped up out of the highways and byways, then we are not the Bride as well. At best we are friends of the groom invited to the wedding.
We understand repeatedly from scripture that we are "His body". "He is our elder brother". So where in all of this do we morph into a Bride? Just some questions that have been bugging me. If you prefer not to answer here, you are welcome to use my email.
Suffice it to say that the Bride comes forth from the church body as a whole. The rest of us are friends of the Bride-Groom.
The first-fruits of the earth unto God love their own lives [not at all] and have not been defiled by emotionalism i.e. by the woman. Adam was defiled by the woman i.e. emotionalism and was tempted to becomes as gods by the knowledge of good and evil..They were tempted to gain something by way of knowledge. Adam and Eve subscribed to the temptation and Jesus came to restore what had been lost in that scenario.
Emotionalism will not allow one to enter into Bride-ship, neither will our ideas and claims of specialness allow us to enter into Bride-Ship! Both of those things occurred over at the forbidden tree.
So long as in any way we act or think that this thing is about us, or about the Church, we will not enter into Bride-Ship! So long as we have any claim to fame whatsoever, at best we are the friends of the Bride-Groom.
Those who are self-aware enough to come to God to gain something, rather than simply coming because He has beckened them to Himself, still love their own lives. These are not the Bride! Almost, these qualitfy themselves as friends or more accurately as hirelings.
Jesus beckened Peter for example to come and straight way he left his nets and came not counting the cost!
The Bride knows that this is about Him, and He alone! The Bride is simply along for the glorious ride and for the reason that she has gathered together unto Him! These are caught away into Him!
What I was doing was pointing out that everyone uses a method of some kind to interpretate Revelations. Everyones writings reveal a little what method they use.
I agree with you that the awesomeness of Jesus Christ is found in Revelations. It totally reveals Jesus from His place in heaven, to His birth, His crucifixation, His ascendation to His Father, and to His comming back again. His purpose and His desire. (As well as events.) He is not a wimp tiptoeing through the tulips. He is our Saviour now and to come. The wheatfields are about to be harvested and we will see more and more of His power and glory. We will be in utter amazement at what is to come and is to come. As Acts 2:16,17 syas, And it shall come to pass in the last dys, saith God, I will pour out of my spirit upone all flesh: and your sons and duaghters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see vision, and our old men shall dream dreasm: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my spirit: and they shall prophesy. --This is getting to be more and more prevalent.
One thing I have noticed in the scriptures, whether OT or NT, that when God spoke to someone audible, in visions, dreams, symbolic,(like when Jesus taught using parables, it was said,) and etc, they were interprated or enough details given to recognize when it happened, and it happens, every detail.
I can tell you when He is comming back again. --- When no man thinketh. calledoutPTL
This message has been edited by erv123 on Jun 25, 2009 1:33 PM
"Jesus beckened Peter for example to come and straight way he left his nets and came not counting the cost!"
Doug,
Not counting the cost is in ignorance not knowing what discipleship is because no one can endure that revelation but by piece by piece. Peter thought he was going to gain something, and he was assuming this with his flesh. Even while he was trekking over the countryside with Jesus he was living high on what he was going to get until he was tried and run out of the garden. Jesus told Peter at the time of his death that when you're converted Peter, feed my sheep.
Doug, we don't get nothing by wanting nothing except we get nothing. We get something by wanting something, even demanding our right to it, and by laboring prodigiously for it and by pressing on towards it.
On the other hand we enter into relationships of Love not knowing the cost of sustaining the relationship or the cost of furthering the relationship into something higher. The cost of these type things really cannot be counted beforehand. In re-reading your post you are seeing this as well.
Many relationships are entered into on good faith with both parties thinking that they will gain something by it, but my initial point was this; with our relationship with Christ it can be more pure than this. It can simply be our Love for Him when He births that Love in us!
There is something compelling about the beckening of Jesus especially if we are tired of the efforts of our own fishing trips. There is a whole lot to be gained at many levels by following Christ but there is a better reason to follow after Him.
This tells us something. My son-in-law told me something about his own life; he said, my wife went on into maturity with her life and I did not, this is what finally came between us.
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 29, 2009 11:47 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 29, 2009 11:47 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 29, 2009 9:03 AM This message has been edited by doug-64 on Jun 29, 2009 8:21 AM
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( I did read the book you wanted me to with your theory.) 
