Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Several key points often overlooked in reading this passage.


3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

At hand does NOT mean two thousand years later. It would be the same as when you call a neighbor and ask do you have any potatoes "on hand". You are not asking will they have potatoes available in 2000 years from now.


7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

"Coming with clouds" in the old testament usually meant one of two things. either coming as a visible presence such as the cloud over the tabernacle or its meaning was judgment by a neighboring army. The Jews of the first century clearly knew what he meant...the ones that pierced him were in the city when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD



9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Obviously not talking of tribulation 2000 years later if he was experiencing it then already.


11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

What purpose would it be to send it to those seven churches if it was not relevant to their era. Those seven churches do not even exist today. It was relevant to them because it was warning them of the impending doom, i.e. Jerusalem's imminent destruction in 70 AD which was just several years into the future for the seven churches.

7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

I gather you are trying to prove the Revelation is not relevant to us today except for historical review of the destruction of Jesusalem. You referenced the above verse as an example. Do you think all kindreds of the earth mourned when Jerusalem was destroyed?

The next to the last verse in the Revelation says "I am coming quickly..." Do you think this also refers to the destruction of Jerusalem? Even though there can be no doubt in context that it refers to the second coming of Christ? 2 Peter 3:8&9 make it clear that our idea of "quickly" and God's are not the same. Furthermore, it has happened "quickly" for several plane-loads recently. Just because you are not doing the dirt-nap yet, doesn't mean any of us will see tomorrow. We need to live in a constant state of readiness, otherwise satan will lull us to sleep by saying "things are the same as they have always been."(2 Peter 3:4)

Howie, you are going to hear many different ways people are interpretating this. Look at all the different ways of doing this. The one thing to remember is: that since creation God has punished His people, cities and nations at different times for different reasons. At the time this happens to them, they think it is the tribulation of Revelations and will look for scriptural reason to think so. During WW11 they did. Look at the Preterist viewpoint, the Historical viewpoint, the Futurist viewpoint and the Idealist or Symbollic viewpoints. Look at history and look what Revelations says will happen. See if every detail has taken place on the whole earth. That is the difference, has God's wrath been on the WHOLE earth or just different areas and segments of time?Remember the flood was the whole earth.

The idea isn't to live for what we think took place in the past, what we think will take place in the future, but what is taking place in our lives today. Enjoy this thread and look for spirited discussion. calledoutPTL

I gather you are trying to prove the Revelation is not relevant to us today except for historical review of the destruction of Jesusalem. You referenced the above verse as an example.

No it is relevant but only in the context of it's original message. Just the same as the stories of Moses, Daniel, and David are historical in nature does not mean we can't learn from them.

Do you think all kindreds of the earth mourned when Jerusalem was destroyed?

Yes

The next to the last verse in the Revelation says "I am coming quickly..." Do you think this also refers to the destruction of Jerusalem?

That is within the context of Revelation.

Even though there can be no doubt in context that it refers to the second coming of Christ? 2 Peter 3:8&9 make it clear that our idea of "quickly" and God's are not the same.

What? Go on to Vs 10 and it tells of Jerusalem and the temples destruction by fire...the entire old covenant way of doing things will be burned up. Do a study on "the Day of the Lord" and no other conclusion can be made.

Vs. 11 old way of doing things will be dissolved or destroyed.


Furthermore, it has happened "quickly" for several plane-loads recently. Just because you are not doing the dirt-nap yet, doesn't mean any of us will see tomorrow. We need to live in a constant state of readiness, otherwise satan will lull us to sleep by saying "things are the same as they have always been."(2 Peter 3:4)

I agree, we are not guaranteed tomorrow...find the purpose of your existence and fulfill it.

The idea isn't to live for what we think took place in the past, what we think will take place in the future, but what is taking place in our lives today.

You are so right. Think took place...think will take place...is where the error begins.

Understanding what DID take place, helps us live our lives accordingly.