If we had a perfect Democratic Republic of law, what would it look like?
In my opinion health-care is not what folk are afraid of and yet a very real fear seems to energize our tea parties our town-hall meetings. What are we afraid of?
Weve had the armed forces for a long time; this is a form of socialism. We have had medi-care and medi-cade for awhile now which is absolutely socialized medicine. Welfare with all its reforms is socialism. Social-security has been around for a good long while and this is socialism. We have F.E.M.A. which is more socialism. Home-land security is more of the same. These are all forms of socialism. I dont think we are afraid of socialism.
In America the Amish people pretty much stand alone in not partaking of these things.
The fear among the people superficially seems to be that we will go the way of hard-core socialism like North Korea is, like the Soviet Union was, or like China was. While these countries are moving toward democracy in order to survive, we seem to be moving toward more socialism. Where do we meet? Is it in the middle somewhere? Thats an honest question.
As to the fear; it seems to me this is a thing where rational fundamentalism fears emotional liberalism! Show me a rational man [if he admits it or not] who does not fear the emotional woman. These minds are at enmity the one with the other. His seed and her seed are at variance with each other. The home is one example of this. The Church is another example of this, and Secular governments are yet another example.
The typical liberal is a nurturer and is not very rational in any of these spectrums. The typical rational conservative is rarely ruled by emotion in these same spectrums.
Do we come together in the middle somewhere? Or must the emotional mind come over to the side of the rational mind and cease to exist for all intents and purposes?
In Christ Jesus the more emotional mind bends to the rational, after which the humble emotional part has some great influence and strength in any government which is Christ-ruled!
In my opinion health-care is not what folk are afraid of and yet a very real fear seems to energize our tea parties our town-hall meetings. What are we afraid of?
No I'm not afraid of 'health care'. I'm afraid of Government controlled health care!
Weve had the armed forces for a long time; this is a form of socialism. We have had medicare and medi-cade for awhile now which is absolutely socialized medicine. Welfare with all its reforms is socialism. Social-security has been around for a good long while and this is socialism. We have F.E.M.A. which is more socialism. Home-land security is more of the same. These are all forms of socialism. I dont think we are afraid of socialism.
And what shape are those programs in now? How good of a job did the Government do with adminestering them?
In America the Amish people pretty much stand alone in not partaking of these things.
I have never taken part in any of those programs, and I don't think the Amish stand alone in not doing so...
I don't think it's a matter of rational or irrational thinking it's learn from the past. Look at the data, look at the facts. It's not that hard to see that to give our health care system to the government is going to be an epic fail. Just like everything else they do.
I think a healthy respect for the way things really are is good and in place. I haven't gone through the whole series yet, I'm only at chapter 14, but so far, I'm thinking this person has a pretty good view of things...
I think a healthy respect for the way things really are is good and in place. I haven't gone through the whole series yet, I'm only at chapter 14, but so far, I'm thinking this person has a pretty good view of things...
I did not mean to restrict the fear-picture to what I wrote in my first post by any means. I understand the implications of financing total health-care, its astronomical if its to be good care.
I also understand those who now afford good health care are wondering if their good care will descend to something lower in quality if the Obama-health plan is passed. The fear of ill-health and the fear of death itself are very real factors.
I was speaking of the superficial and consistent fear of the empowered bleeding-heart liberals. There is a fear among conservatives of being robbed of the good life by those ruled by emotion who want give the limited tax dollars away to those less fortunate. The ultra conservative person says to the poorer ones; go to work boys! The liberal person says; I feel your pain with ones hand held over the heart. The pledge of allegiance is different here. There you have it! Wheres the balance?
Changing the subject here somewhat; how is the health-care [which used to be called C.H.A.] among the Holdeman Mennonites working by now? I hear my sister saying that I think I will wait to get on medi-care to get my shoulder replaced. I make no judgment call on that; what Im saying is that health-care in its costs has gone off the charts. Fifty years ago who would have thought that a shoulder, hip, a knee, or a heart or liver could be replaced? In the end money simply cannot buy good health! Theres only a certain amount of money and a certain amount of G.D.P. Either the money runs out or the laws of thermo dynamics rise to the occasion. Possibly we should re-evaluate the deeper things.
The old order Amish who dont believe in nor accept socialized medicine i.e. [medi-cade or medi-care], how are they doing? Do their home remedies and natural ways really work? Or are they dying younger than the average American who affords what we call the best health-care? Is their quality of life better or worse while they live than the insurance freak who always seems to have his eye on transplanting or honing something out?
Just maybe its time to think and ponder! Possibly its time to get up off of our religious and financial bottoms and meditate in the intrinsic truths of Gods Word in more serious ways in these matters!
Doug, you have shared some good thoughts here. I'll have to admit, health care politics is something I have never been very interested in. But it does seem obvious to all that the current system is not working very well. Our society ends up paying for the uninsured, but not efficiently. Without preventative maintenance, we are forced to pay for catastrophic health care. I don't know what the solution is, but something needs to be done.
The issue deserves a healthy debate. But what the fear mongers seem to be ignoring (on purpose, it seems) is that the current Democratic proposals are, for the most part, a good faith effort to improve the system. Instead, a few very loud individuals are mischaracterizing and demonizing the effort.
This message has been edited by DrSkeptic on Aug 10, 2009 3:00 PM
But if you'll take a look, you see, in large blue letters, The Crash Course. Just under that, there is a box with "Course Chapters" written in it, and just below that, there are a row of numbers. There is actually over 3 hours worth there.
Basically, the jist of it, as far as I understand it, is that either the government will stop spending more than it brings in, or, the more likely issue is that if we follow the same pattern (spending more than we make, spending our dollars on cosumables, etc. etc.) then our standard of living will be lowered in the near future. Some striking things stand out to me, including the fact that the savings rate has been falling drastically since 1985. (I have heard that in January of this year there was a sharp spike upward in saving)
Some questions were raised about the fear of moving toward more socialism. Yes, we have a certain amount of socialism. But then the question needs to be asked, at what point do we draw the line? In order to preserve our constitution and our liberty and freedom, I would say we are at or near the breaking point. Obama seems bent on instituting the European-style government which is basically socialism, and is largely a failure. The European people are not particularly proud of their health care system. Our system of government was formed to be by the people and for the people. Does the HR 3200 bill represent the interests and approval of the people?
The cause of the fear that we are seeing is that people are seeing their freedoms being taken away at an alarming rate. But that is the agenda of the Obama administration. If it weren't for the people voicing their concerns the HR 3200 would have likely already been passed in the House. Then the Senate will load into it all the things they want. It's like there is never even a thought in the Congress to ask what the people might want.
I agree there needs to be some reform, the insurance companies need to reign in the ever increasing cost of premiums and be more lenient in approving more health conditions. But with all the brilliant minds in this country, surely we can come up with something better than HR 3200, something superior to what we already have rather than regressing into a socialistic health care system.
We are seeing a lively discussion on this matter along with matters of the economy.
Heres a huge question; is health care a [right] in this country or is it a [privilege]? The constitution and the bill of rights do not include health-care as a right. Having said that; at what point does health-care become a right, if ever?
The average American is strapped for cash as we speak. The tithes and offerings have been demanded by the government in forms of taxation. It would be from these very tithes and offerings that one could and in many cases would help the sick, the diseased and the hungry.
Some Christian believers say that it is up to the church to feed the poor and aide the sick and the diseased. The Levitical priesthood demanded the collection of income taxes from their brethren, they called it the tithe. It was the first-fruits of their labors. This tax or tithe was placed into the store-house for the needs of the people and to sustain the priesthood.
The people of the churches around this land are trying hard to make their own ends meet with little money left to help others. Forty-some percent of our money goes to taxation to the secular priesthood. The first-fruits of our labors; indeed what would be our tithes and offerings is gone before we can determine where it should go. At this point, health-care intrinsically may become a [right] rather than a [privilege].
On the other hand if the taxations are excessive and in certain cases not even legal, it is possible that what was meant to be a privilege by our constitution and bill of rights, is now forced into the arena of personal rights. If you have already paid for something, you are not required to pay for it again. That is intrinsic.
This now poses a huge problem. How long can we sustain our blood-bought freedoms in America along with its constitution and bill of rights when we have a secular priesthood systematically taking our freedoms and power of choice away from us.
Once we depend upon the priesthood for everything; at this point the priesthood has total control of the people! That is anti-christ, personified. Christ rules us from the interior! Never does He rule us from the exterior.Anti-christ literally means instead of Christ!
Any governing body, whether that be secular or religious which takes the power of free determination of conscience away from the people, is an anti-christ governing body. It is no wonder that the thing is now blowing itself completely out of the water by way of the health-care issue. The weak economy encourages the debate and I personally think it is high time the debate occurred with all its variations and issues.
The emotional thinkers [the liberal minds] honestly seem to be surprised at the force in the debate. What ya think?
Marine Downed(uncertain of spelling) a columnist, made a statement that someone who knows community organizations should be able to squelch townhall meetings????? HUH???? calledoutPTL
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