If someone says they don't believe in God, but they are reading the Bible.

They also say that the Holy Spirit isn't helping them. What is happening in that situation?

Does a person have to have the Holy Spirit in order to understand the Bible?

I'm thinking that they at least have to have an open mind.

Can a person read the Bible with a closed mind and still expect the Holy Spirit to help them?

Any thoughts would be helpful.

If someone says they don't believe in God, but they are reading the Bible.

They also say that the Holy Spirit isn't helping them. What is happening in that situation?

If they read the Bible with an open mind they will be convicted I think.

Does a person have to have the Holy Spirit in order to understand the Bible?

I think theay must

I'm thinking that they at least have to have an open mind.

Can a person read the Bible with a closed mind and still expect the Holy Spirit to help them?

If they are sufficient and think they are wise they are no different than the Pharisees who never did see Jesus or the light.

Any thoughts would be helpful.
My thoughts

>Does a person have to have the Holy Spirit in order to understand the Bible?< <br>

I know of a man that was a murderer and an all around very vile person and as he was sitting there in jail someone handed him a Bible and he started reading it and got saved so what at what point did he get understanding(of the Bible)and at what point did he receive the Holy Spirit?

I'm back to this again. I'm going to add to the question.

Are we born with the Holy Spirit?

I know our church touches on 'regeneration' of the Spirit as our conviction or acceptance of Jesus as our Savior. We don't teach 'universalism'. We don't really teach 'regeneration' we only describe it as, acceptance of Jesus as your Savior will bring about change in your life and that is a sign of salvation, we also understand that any changes in your life can be highly personal and can't always be seen. We don't focus on each others change.

But to say that something is 'regenerated' means it was there to begin with.

I was wondering if the 'regeneration of the Spirit' is Biblical or theological. Does the regeneration of the Spirit go with the verse,

Romans 1:20

20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible

qualities - His eternal power and divine nature - have been

clearly seen, being understood from what has been made so

that men are without excuse.

A point we could consider is that Adam and Eve did not need to quickly act out some gross sins in order to feel guilty and hide.

To get them back to original would take regeneration.

How do we stuff them back into innocence though?

I say the main problem to overcome is the need they had to run and hide. And I think that this is what God has always been addressing. He is trying to rebuild a relationship.

And we as humans tend to make it worse by saying, "If you would act like I tell you to then you would be acceptable".

The knowledge of good and evil is out there already, and we are sure trying to add to it.

Atrisk;

You're beautiful in what you just said.

A point we could consider is that Adam and Eve did not need to quickly act out some gross sins in order to feel guilty and hide.

To get them back to original would take regeneration.

How do we stuff them back into innocence though?

I say the main problem to overcome is the need they had to run and hide. And I think that this is what God has always been addressing. He is trying to rebuild a relationship.

And we as humans tend to make it worse by saying, "If you would act like I tell you to then you would be acceptable".

The knowledge of good and evil is out there already, and we are sure trying to add to it.


That is a lot you said there atrisk, and much to look into for so few words.

I think we are born with the Holy Spirit in as much as we came from God in the beginning.

Our hairs are numbered and He knit us together in the womb.

Bible Gateway Psalm 139 click to read whole Psalm.

13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

Then we are born into a sinful world and with a sin nature or rebellion and what God is wanting to do is 'restore' us back to Him, but in this process He gives us free will to be part of that restoration. Without free will it wouldn't be restoration it would be more like a hijacking or an invasion of the body snatcher and at what point would it happen if we didn't get to decide with our own mind and heart?

You ask "how do we stuff them back into innocence" we go through Jesus.


So, I'm not exactly sure if we are born with the Holy Spirit. I thought I had read somewhere that the Holy Spirit is part of our conscience, has anyone else ever heard that?

Maybe the Holy Spirit comes into our open innocent souls, which we are all born with?


Oxy

Bee Kind

If a small child has the Holy Spirit or not, may be a matter of semantics. Holy among other things means to be whole. We know that a small child has a whole and complete spirit. That's speaking of quality rather than quantity. A small child has a whole spirit, meaning nothing of the evil or dark has entered in at this point and in quality reduced the spirit of the small child. The child is hooked up to the creator, there is no doubt. The creator is a good creator and how we love the little tots!

Jesus said in effect that we [cannot] enter into the kingdom i.e. into [wholeness or holiness] unless we first become as a small child once again. A small child has all the righteousness and holiness one will ever need or desire. A small child loves unconditionally. A child forgives so immediately, even his abusers.

John in his first chapter said that God lights every person coming into the world with His light. We get a new hold on that pure child when we are born again! This inner child got dripped on with darkness and evil stuff to say it bluntly. Born again means, [born again]!

On the other hand Isaiah said that all of us have gone astray and everyone has taken his own way, (as adults).

Maybe the Holy Spirit comes into our open innocent souls, which we are all born with?
Oxy

Bee Kind

Very good thoughts Oxy and Doug.

I love your sig. line Oxy, very original.

I don't mean to spoil this nice conversation about children with "theology", but Christendom has several views on the salvation of children. (1) The Catholic view is that baptism takes care of original sin in babies (which all of us are born with) and (2) evangelicals say that it is only actual sin that separates one from God (and not original sin) and innocent children are not accountable because they do not understand sin. ALL posterity is born with the same promise of a "Redeemer" given to Adam & Eve when they were put out of the Garden. This promise, "the propitiation for the whole world", covers original sin in babies and all peoples.

Adam & Eve believed this promise and on this "faith" they too had eternal life.

Hank;

I think what you added so aptly, spoke to the price of our redemption and our legal escape from the penalty of the inherited sin-nature.

Our nice conversation [as you say] was speaking of the substance and qualities of our salvation.

I would not call these different views but rather seeing the other elements of a thing.

Thank you

Glad you like my sig. line especially since it is in honor of my Mom's creed!

Oxy



Bee Kind

Hi Paris. Long time - no talk!

I can read the Koran without belief - so I think that the Bible can be read in the same manner - without faith - without belief - without expectation that it will change our thinking or alter our beliefs.

That said - I believe the Holy Spirit is an entirely different issue! I believe that the Holy Spirit/God is working constantly - and consistently - to win souls. And I believe that's true whether a person is walking through a grocery store or reading a Bible. Or - even reading the Koran! Or - even committing a crime! I don't believe what WE are doing changes what the Holy Spirit is doing. The only change that occurs is when we hear the Holy Spirit and answer.

MAN my God is big!!

Hi Sophia,

I asked this question before and I got this answer. I'm not sure I totally understand it, but it appears to be correct or something.


the way that God appears to work is that:
the Father is the brains behind the word and the regulator of the spirit,
the Son is the spoken word.
and the Spirit is what carries the word...

lol at "appears to be correct or something". That could be true of anything - no?

Not sure that I grasp this as an entire truth - though it also doesn't smack of 'un-truth'. But much of New-Age strikes me that way as well. It contains so much truth - but it just doesn't go far enough to speak the WHOLE truth. Have you read 'The Shack'? I loved the personification in that book that brought the Trinity to life for me in a way that I had not previously considered. Highly recommend the book.

Just want to note from another post further above that the two views of 1. Roman Catholic saving children by baptism and 2. evangelicals seeing children as innocent (simplifying what was said greatly) - does not mean that all denominations that practice infant baptism are Roman Catholic - or are not evangelical! Some evangelicals also baptize their babies. I consider myself at this time to be Presbyterian - and Presbyterian baptize innocent children/babies - who are no more or less innocent after baptism - but are merely surrendered to God's care and guidance - what I see as an invitation by the parents of that child for the Holy Spirit to take an active role in that child's life and speaking to him/her so that when an age of understanding/reckoning is reached that that child can accept freely the gift of Salvation. That acceptance is where salvation against original sin occurs. I guess that means that I don't see the Spirit merely 'carrying' the word - but also 'speaking' the word. I definitely see the Holy Spirit as the voice of God here on earth. As our super-natural connection to our creator God and Savior Jesus.

No one comes except the Father draws him.

Reading the Bible may give one wisdom. However the devil quoted scripture too.

When we are conficted, and determined God will answer our prayer. It seemed I had to fight and plead for deliverence from the sin that so easily beset me. But deliverence and Freedom is soo great. I thank God every day for saving me from the clutches of the devil. I know where I am going now. I have a burden for people who are slaves to the law and also slaves to the ways of the world.

The harvest is great and the labourers are few.44