The vote seems rather lopsided.

I smell a rat.

Actually Satan snuck onto the forum and cast the pro shunning votes so technically it is unanimous.

^ lol



It looked so innocent at the time.

For the people who voted no, would you mind telling how being shunned and the like helped whoever it is you are referring to.

What positive outcome did you personally see?

Lets see 3 no votes, hmmmm , wonder who those three could be? Ummmm, let me try, well, why
do I smell a TR here? Uh, lets see, I also see a MonteMan in my crystal ball, and why lookie
here, over here I see ,,,, why,,, none other than that ole WTK !! Yup , now WTK, you ole
hocker you, been hiding until it's voting time!




(Whoops, edited to change that from the "yes" to "no")

3 blind mice...

No really, I would like to hear from the 'No' voters.

Paris, you probably won't hear a whole lot out of the no voters. They are used to hiding behind Holdi-mama's skirt. At a good old excommunication, all they have to do is stand to their feet or raise their hand or whatever it is that they do to show their support. They're too chicken sh*t to speak up.

Well either the poll is corrupted by people voting more than once or there are a lot of Holdimen and women with a computer tonight.

It would be nice if they spoke up, but I would imagine that most of the ones who vote 'No' have never been on the end of the pitchfork.

I re-set the vote and denied access to readers only. In other words you have to have a log in to vote.

The justice system puts away people every day. Is that for their own good or for society?

Does it destroy the human spirit?

What do proponants of shunning see as beneficial?

And the detracters?

Anyone want to go out on a limb and look at this one?

"The justice system puts away people every day. Is that for their own good or for society?
Does it destroy the human spirit? "

Now lets twist that a little more. What if the people the justice system puts away are in reality innocent? Does that build them up or destroy them?

**And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.**

Notg, I am going to step out on a limb here on this one. I was jumped awhile back about the church we are now attending by some H and grilled that where I go now for sure wouldn't expell anyone. Well they have and it worked. It was a man having an affair and I was told that he felt like they had done the right thing as it made him stop and think and he turned back to God.
While I was not born H, I was a member from the time I turned 15 until I was 35, then spent 14 yrs attending there as an X. In those 35 yrs I have seen dozens of folks exed for dozens of reasons. when someone is exed for the reasons that are listed in the scripture, I have seen it over and over again that it seems to really work. They either repent and return or they simply go their way to live the life they are chosing to live. But I have watched over and over again when someone is exed for reasons that are related to power plays by staff and personal opinions, personal agendas and misrepresentation, the exed person has severe struggles and often ends up with mental issues, simply gives up and becomes a yesman, just to be a member again, or walks away a bitter shell. Others struggle for years trying to make sense of it in their minds and are never able to. Those that have a strong constitution and are able to give their trust up to God and move on seem to go a different direction that leaves H scratching their heads and wondering what has really happened.
I know ministers that have been exed that have gone thru such trials with it, that they will not talk about the experience at all and others that cannot even tell you what the experience was, that allowed them to be reaccepted as it was all the whim of some man or men.

AS far as the public Penal system goes, there are some folks that must be seperated from society to keep them from hurting others again. Is that hard on them? yes. is it necessary? Yes. I have personally met men that have spent time in prison and have been redeemed because of it. They have found Jesus because they had to be stopped long enough to need him. Are some more damaged by their experiences there? without a doubt Yes.
If you want a couple good stories of redemption of those in prison, google Son OF Sam Murderer and read his life changing story. he is in prison for life for a number of murders and is now a christian. He will never see outside the prison walls again in this life. But I have heard him speak and he is phenomenal. Another is www.lifeskillsintl.org and get the story of Paul Hegstrom who got down on his hands and knees in prison and beat his head and hands on the floor till they were mush and spent more than a week flat on his back while God talked to him. He now leads a very large anger management program.
good parents do not let their children run wild cause they don't want to hurt them, they control them reasonably so they do not hurt themselves.

not only does the person need to know that they are guilty but they also need to know what it is that they are being accused of. not some vague, we think you need to find something, or trumped up intimidating spirit or what ever. If you are gonna work on someone at least tell them straight and plain what they did that was offensive and then maybe, just maybe you might get somewhere. Jesus was very plain when he said what sin was, he did not beat around the bush. Believe me a few years of, God is truly working in your life, but you still need to see something, is cruel abuse. either the person is living in sin or they aren't and you need to deal with it rightly and quit your abuse. ANd you H are doing it over and over again to one person after another.
Somedays I wonder why I put up with it and other times I know exactly why. Cause I was conditioned to look to man for security and confirmation of worthiness.