Since Annual Meeting, we recognize that more business and activity is being conducted online. We have felt the need for continuing vigilance and carefulness as we use these services. We welcome comments and questions from staffs and the brotherhood in general. As we have reviewed our filter recommendations, we have felt the need to find one or several additional filters that would offer the functionality and safety necessary.
One of the companies, American Family Online, has offered to partner with us in this endeavor, and we are actively working with them to offer our own version of the AFO TotalNetGuard standard filter. We are in the process of incorporating our filtering criteria in addition to the existing TotalNetGuard standard level filtering parameters.
This new filter service is a work in process and we will need your understanding and help to bring it to a generally acceptable level of conscience and serviceability. Brethren with online service needs who wish to consider using this filter are encouraged to share suggestions and findings with the Technology Committee. An email address, cogicm.filter@afo.net, has been established for input from the brotherhood. The signup page for this service is found ahttp://cogicm.afo.net>, or by contacting AFO and asking for the COGICM filter. Subscription cost is $4.95 per month.
Smart phones are multi-featured cell phones with web and email access. They are increasingly found amongst us. The advancement of high-speed mobile web access deepens our concern that many of these phones are unfiltered. Presently all Windows Mobile and Palm (and, possibly, Blackberry) operating system phones can be filtered by using the standard AFO-TotalNetGuard filter in proxy-settings mode. Lockdown filters for most smart phone brands are currently in development by several different filter service providers. If a smart phone is needed, we encourage using forethought to ensure that filtering is available and arranged before obtaining the unit.
From time to time we hear of brethren who are using filters that are insufficient or unsuitable. We encourage brethren to discontinue use of filters that are easily bypassed, uninstalled, or with user-adjustable filter settings, and rather to seek out our latest recommendations.
We wish to remind the brotherhood that the filter will not take away our personal accountability and that the filter is not the ultimate solution to keeping us safe on the Internet the Holy Spirit, our conscience, and our concern for our children and the future safety of the church should motivate us to carefulness whether or not the filter is tight enough. We probably never will have a perfect filter. We do not recommend allowing the children unsupervised use of the computer, and especially anything online. At the same time, we are thankful for the conviction and conscientiousness of many brothers and sisters, and we encourage this carefulness and concern.
We expect in time to issue an update to the comprehensive list of recommendations and explanations. The following are considered our recommended filters at this time. These recommendations will change with time as technology changes and companies and filter offerings change.
Christian WebfilterCommercial or free version
AFO TotalNetGuard, COGICM version or Ultimate version
I do appreciate your concern about unsupervised children on-line internet. Adults have to take responsibility for what they watch as well. calledoutPTL
>>AFO TotalNetGuard, COGICM version or Ultimate version<
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Ooohh... their own version. I wonder what the difference is between it and the 'ultimate' version... Probably the COGICM one filters out anything with the words 'Holdeman', 'bushmaster', 'man's reasoning' or 'orthodox'.
>>We encourage brethren to discontinue use of filters that are easily bypassed, uninstalled, or with user-adjustable filter settings, and rather to seek out our latest recommendations.<
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What I don't quite understand is this: If you install a filter on your computer, surely you would know how to uninstall it or modify it, wouldn't you?
Meaning, of course, that any filter is only as 'effective' as the computer owner's conscience is, since if some horny brother or sister wants to see some porn, or, even worse, wants to go so far as to read the COG forum (which I assume is filtered out by the OTVFilter), all s/he has to do is go and disable it.
>>We wish to remind the brotherhood that the filter will not take away our personal accountability and that the filter is not the ultimate solution to keeping us safe on the Internet.<
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Do the Holdies have filters for other things such as cinemas, bookstores and newsstands? I mean, there are all kinds of media out there that have pretty much the same content as the sites that they are so desperately trying to protect their people from. As a Holdeman, what is there to stop you from going to see a movie, or buying books that are not 'approved' for 'our people' or picking up a copy of Playboy's Girls of Summer or whatever?
Does a plexi-glass barrier drop down in front of you when you approach the cinema box office or the bookstore shelf or the convenience store magazine rack? Do you have to take the local bushmaster along with you wherever you go so he can keep you from going to unapproved places and buying unapproved things?
>>The Holy Spirit, our conscience, and our concern for our children and the future safety of the church should motivate us to carefulness whether or not the filter is tight enough.<
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Nice to see that the Holy Spirit at least gets a token acknowledgement in all of this. Maybe if the Holdemans were not so legalistic and actually lived by the power of said Spirit, all of this time, expense and energy could be used to more useful ends, such as feeding the hungry and clothing the poor, visiting widows and orphans, etc. - you know, the sort of works that the Bible is actually talking about.
Great post, Steven. This whole thing just reeks so bad of censorship and control that it is revolting. From what I can tell, the people that this is addressed to have such a crippled ability to police themselves that they are utterly helpless when it comes to voluntarily controlling their own behavior. Sure, kids and computers, that is one thing, but grown men and women....
I guess it's nothing that wasn't already obvious before. Just confirms it. Hope the AFL-CIO...er, AFO....makes a killing on this new partnership.
>What I don't quite understand is this: If you install a filter on your computer, surely you would know how to uninstall it or modify it, wouldn't you?<
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Steve, exactly my thoughts.
They have the answer to all this right in their own statements.
>We wish to remind the brotherhood that the filter will not take away our personal accountability and that the filter is not the ultimate solution to keeping us safe on the Internet the Holy Spirit, our conscience, and our concern for our children and the future safety of the church should motivate us to carefulness whether or not the filter is tight enough. <
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Steve, what with us all going downhill so fast, it's not gonna be long and we'll be discussing whether it's possible a person can have a homosexual relationship and still be Spirit-led.
>>Steve, what with us all going downhill so fast, it's not gonna be long and we'll be discussing whether it's possible a person can have a homosexual relationship and still be Spirit-led.<
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Unfortunately, I don't see the Holdeman church having that discussion in the near future.
But nice attempt to change the topic.
This message has been edited by StevenThiessen on Sep 11, 2009 6:49 AM
>>I understand verse 7 to be something a bit more, a bit deeper, than a technical issue.< <br>
>>I understand it to mean the following:< <br>
>>Taken the way I just presented it, I then see no conflict< <br>
All of this sounds a lot like "man's reasoning".
Why is it ok for you, TR, to engage in such exercises, but when others do the same sort of thing and arrive at other conclusions, it is dismissed as 'man's reasoning' and therefore not to be accepted?
And you answered:
Steve, good point, I'll clarify when I have a bit more time.
Now, it seems you have more time and are desperately trying to change the topic here.... perhaps you could first "be ready with an answer" before going on to a new subject.
I was also looking forward to TR's answer, as it is something I have wondered about as well. Why everyone else's convictions, inspirations and leading is "man's reasoning", but somehow we H have it "just right' and OUR way of doing things is the only one that really qualifies as truly Holy Spirit led. Nevermind that we get together, counsel and vote just like everybody else. Nevermind that, by all appearances, plenty of "reasoning" has gone into our weighty handbook to Christian living.
I haven't forgotten Steve's post, and I have been composing my response, but it has been a slow process, for instance, yesterday I left for work at 5:15am, and didn't get home till 10:45pm. I am in the office today, but outside of a quick check here, haven't really touched it today either.
AND, the question wasn't really a change of subject, btw, may possibly be a case-in-point. But there are more examples on this forum we can relate to as well without his reply.
This message has been edited by anaverageh on Sep 15, 2009 1:04 PM
I was raised as a Holdeman Mennonite too(in one of the strictest homes)yet still wish that people could post their thoughts and opinions without sarcasm. (I see attitude as a choice one makes).
Yes, I believe religion causes more unhappiness and devastion than anything else in the world. to everyone.
However, being an idealist, I believe if everyone practiced "The Golden Rule", all of the bitterness, unhappiness, negativity, and the devastation of mankind would go away.
NO sarcasm? pshh yea right! Godly Men communicate with sarcasm, for it in it holds the veiled answer to those who hate the truth. This is just one verse but there other examples as well.
1Ki 22:15* So he came to the king. And the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall we forbear? And he answered him, Go, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.
Sarcasm only works where there is fear, and fear can only be present in a heart that is not made perfect toward truth.
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Tr, While you are composing your "answer" have you ever noticed that it takes a lot of time for you to present your "truth" That goes a long way toward the saying that it takes a lot of scripture to prove false doctrine. God's ways are simple, you and your "people" make plain, simple living so torturous.
Interesting Topic here. I was talking to a gentleman who was concerned over a week ago that all holdeman's being decieved would spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. I went to a Baptist service this morning and I was excited when I heard in the message that not only Baptists would be going to heaven. I strongly believe that being a holdeman will not prevent one from getting to heaven. It is accepting Christ as our saviour and having fellowship with him that is important.
Hello Howie....Yes, tis interesting...Because I was brought up Holdeman and they also believed that others than H Mennonite would enter heaven...
Thank you for your appreciation of my poem...
Because I was brought up Holdeman and they also believed that others than H Mennonite would enter heaven...
Moron, you must be referring to some other Holdeman organization than the one that this forum is about. Or else you have done too much counseling and it has dulled your memories of what they teach.
brought up in the same holdeman church as you! I was taught that being brought up in the Holdeman church one could not join another church and be saved....however, other people w/o my upbringing could be saved in another church...
Sorry
My memory is just fine!
Beg to disagree with you on the word sarcasm....it can be used to be intepreted in different ways as in positive humor,negative humor etc
The sarcasm I was referring to was the frequency of it's negative use on this Mennonite forum...I left this site some years ago for the above reason and can again...yet there are some very positive, open, kind and considerate people on here too. This time will concentrate on them.
This message has been edited by oxymoronish on Sep 28, 2009 3:46 PM
"...yet there are some very kind and considerate people on here too. This time will concentrate on them."
Ah yes. my sweet Mrs Qwerty, I'm catching on to your sly little tricks! Why thank you, I knew
you'd see me as very kind and considerate,, I knew it !!
Mrs. Qwerty, Jesus said he would send a counselor, are you the ONE we are to expect??
I knew those dang SDA's were wrong, they think the whole Bible is a parable, including the
death on the cross, but here you are babes,,,,,, our very own counselor has been sent,,
COWABUNGA! I'M HAPPY!!
Now Mrs Qwerty, you think I'm nasty? You wait till Hank gets home from Wild Horse Lake in
Montezuma, he will clean your plow babes!
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