By my original post, I don't mean to condemn all music that I simply don't have a taste for, but I do have concerns about the subject. What really is Godly music? Can we imagine the musicians of King David or the angels of heaven singing and playing some of the kinds of music that some so called Christian bands play in our day? Jesus spoke of music being played and dancing with it, yet some rock music sounds like banging, screaming, hitting, and simply sounds wild and evil instead of good. I wonder if in our day some Christians are adding good words to bad music? I know there is much good music by others than I posted, and likely music I don't really have a taste for. Post the music you like here.
>>Art in music isn't only in the music you like.<
<br>
I don't think I said anywhere that there wasn't. Just because I wouldn't want to spend an eternity listening to the Chuck Wagon Gang or Tennessee Ernie Ford doesn't mean that I don't recognise their music as an art form (albeit one which holds very limited appeal to me personally).
>>All forms of music have high talent in them.<
<br>
Again, no argument from me there. Every genre of music has very talented composers/writers and performers.
Perhaps the Cactus Cuties could get Amos and Mr. Theissen on the same page! Maybe it's my H roots, and being is several men';s quartets myself, but I still prefer acapella music with god harmony. I would imaguine you have all seen the Cactus Cuties do the national anthem. If you haven't, I encourage you to go to youtube and have a listen. It is inspiring!
I appreciate your being forgiving! After looking at all the typos in my last post, I decided I better not hit the send button quite so quickly next time!
To judge anyone by their taste in music, sexual preference, clothes, hair style, the car they drive, the church they attend, or any other outward thing is of the Devil. For Christ commanded us not to judge, but to love.
Pure music is totally irreligious. Angus Young, of AC/DC, is considered a pioneer in heavy metal guitar. It takes much more talent to play his style of guitar than to strum three chords with the Chuck Wagon Gang. Yet. the dominant seventh is the same on both guitars.
Listen to Richard Wagner's "Ride of the Valkiries", or Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture" and then take a listen to this.
God created these young men and endowed them with a singular talent as well as Tennesee Ernie Ford. To call music devilish is foolish. You may prefer George Jones over Tupac Shakur, but it makes neither man godly or devilish, neither does it make their art angelic. It is simply music. Break it down to its elementary form of a single note, and it all sounds the same.
Good post OS. But why does some music connect so much with our souls so poignantly, makes us cry, i.e., releases other forms of energy? Life is merely the management of energy. Emotion is pure energy, some vanilla, some chocolate. Music is highly managed energy. Some energies are complementary, some are not.
This message has been edited by oldmanrip on Oct 6, 2009 6:16 AM
This reminds me of a story I heard years go that came from an H missionary couple that had spent time in Africa and the story goes that one night the natives in one town heard some strange noises coming from out of town in the bush.
So they walk out there to investigate. It was a hard rock group.(The missionaries heard about it the next day) The natives telling this had never heard or seen anything like it but made the statement that it sounded devilish or satanic,or something to that effect, especially the drums. These natives were very much into witchcraft.
My point is that these people were totally innocent of any knowledge of rock music but yet they identified it as something coming from Satan. So wouldn't there be some merit in thinking that how the music is played would have some bearing on how it is projected?
GM, that is an interesting story about the natives. But I dont agree with the idea that since when something is heard for the first time by a group of individuals and they interpret is as devilish, that that has any bearing on what it actually is.
There was a composer from the 1800s whose music was deemed to be "of the devil". But it was just so new and so good that it took people by surprise and aroused emotions that they were not familiar with. The composer is Paganini, and you can listen to one of his compositions here:
You could almost put your finger on the formula that makes people perceive music as devilish. At least Im going to take a stab at it now.
On one hand you could have something obvious by the words spoken and the vocal presentation, such as growling and other forms perceived to be threatening. AC/DCs "Hells Bells" or "Highway to Hell" would be good examples of this. But apart from the reference to Hell, what is inherent in the music that reminds of the dark side? Its probably the fact that we dont recognize it as beautiful in the classic sense, but feel some powerful emotion that is much different than the emotions that a "pretty" song brings.
On the other hand, beautiful music that makes one feel emotions they are not familiar with could be perceived as devilish. If one has only listened to the Chuckwagon gang and then hears AC/DC as the first introduction to a different genre of music, one is likely to associate it with something dark and sinister. Same with the beautiful dancing notes of a Paganini violin. It brings out emotions not felt when listening to the Chuckwagon gang.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s I listened to music my older bros listened to. Led Zeppelin,AC/DC,CCR,Beatles,Pink Floyd,CSNY,Elton John,The Guess Who,Eagles,Grateful Dead Fleetwood Mac and on and on.It wasn't until I was about 16 yrs old that some new friends of mine introduced me to "country music". Honestly I did not enjoy listening to it for many years. Being married to a "country" music girl made a difference and now its not a big deal.My fallback music station on my satelite radio is classic vinyl or the 70s station. If I have been listening to music from the "devil" all these years so be it. If it sounds good and makes me feel nostalgic and warm and fuzzy its good enough for me.
>>..one night the natives in one town heard some strange noises coming from out of town in the bush.
...it sounded devilish or satanic,or something to that effect, especially the drums. These natives were very much into witchcraft.
...these people were totally innocent of any knowledge of rock music but yet they identified it as something coming from Satan.<
<br>
My guess would be that for a culture in which evil spirits are (believed to be) a very real thing, any strange noise coming from the dark would be suspicious and from the 'dark side'. I'll bet even the Chuckwagon Gang would have been met with a similar response...
So much of what we identify as 'good' and 'beautiful' music is connected to what we are familiar with or accustomed to.
ETA:
The first time my mom heard plainchant, she said it gave her the shivers (in a bad way). For an example of plainchant click this link.
You may be right there Steven about the African natives but I still think that songs like this one from AC/DChttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX2xbqWtyJU when he sings about sons of the devil and ecstasy, which I'm sure they are high on some kind of dope while singing this, is still kind of devilish.
Maybe it's my H roots, and being is several men';s quartets myself, but I still prefer acapella music with god harmony. I would imaguine you have all seen the Cactus Cuties do the national anthem. If you haven't, I encourage you to go to youtube and have a listen. It is inspiring!
Miller, I'm surprised at you. I thought you SDAs were against war. Isn't it true that your church doesn't allow combat duty? I'm sure that I'm right on that.
How can you condone a song that is all about bombs and fighting and killing and blood, yet you can't actually fight in the military? You even wrote that the song was inspiring!
Is it just the melody that you like? Do you even know what the lyrics are? What am I missing about you, Miller?
O! say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O! say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
O! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
This message has been edited by Sirius65 on Oct 6, 2009 12:17 PM
Honestly, I have never seen the words beyond the first verse. Furthermore, I have believed the song is mostly about the flag that many men have fought and died to perserve. I believe the Cactus Cuties sing the song with the dignity it deserves. (unlike some renditions by people like Rosie...)
You are correct, SDA's are non-combatant, but we do wear the uniform and serve as medics. If you want an inspiring story, look into the life of Desmond Doss. He was an SDA that saved scores of lives and was eventually awarded the Medal of Honor by the president. (the first medic to receive it I believe)
I have read his story and itis amazing the ridicule he endured for being a conscientous objector during training. Guys who threw boots at him etc. later owed him their life...
Not sure if this fits in here or not. The girl who lives in the house that Mr CalledoutPTL's uncle lived said that every night when this girl came home from work, she heard guitar music. She followed the sound and it came from the corner where his uncle sat in his recliner and played the guitar. Someone asked her if she wasn't scared and she said, "No" she just said "Goodnight ______I'm home now." and went on to bed. calledoutPTL
This message has been edited by erv123 on Oct 7, 2009 8:55 PM
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear, does it make any noise? Answer: No. It creates sound waves, but with no instrument to interpret the waves, there is no noise.
What exactly is it about music that brings out such powerful emotions within us?
A single musical tone is nothing but sound waves oscillating at a perscribed number of waves per second. The human ear acts as a microphone, receiving and interpreting the waves as sound that is either pleasing or not.
Music Theory is the study of music that is pleasing to the human ear. The reason it is called theory is that any number of tones jammed together may be pleasing to someone. Theory says that a succession of first, third, and fifth notes played together is pleasing to the greatest number of people. However, this is not a fact. A minority may like a succession of seconds and sixths strung together.
Thus, the only real fact about music is that anything goes. But, it still begs the question of how sound waves can manipulate human emotions.
I would suggest that anyone interested in this subject should take time to study the Fibinachi number series, discovered by a man with this last name. The numbers are 1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89 into infinity. For instance divide 5 by 8 gives you the Golden Mean Ratio. All of creation pivots around this numerical ratio from the very smallest microscopic creatures to the largest including humans. This ratio also to a large extent dictates what we find aesthetically pleasing, from music, geometry of a human face, architectural principles and on and on. This is more true with the European culture than the Asian culture as they seem to function on a little different wave length apparently. There are sounds that are pleasing and in a sense worshipful to the human ear because I believe it grounds us to who and what we are and the God who created us. Conversely there are sounds that ultimately destroy if repeated over and over. I have listened to enough various music types over the years that I know what some music does to my being. Some music will act like an alcoholic beverage to my system and take away inhibitions. Sure I totally agree, sound is sound and one note played by itself will not influence, but a repeated series of note progressions coupled together with rhythm patterns will definitely affect large groups of people in the pattern that the song writer and player wanted to achieve. I personally believe that music has a subliminal affect that we do not fully understand, in many cases not felt immediately but with long term consequences. Just my musings from the back porch. Carry on! Edited to correct math.
This message has been edited by Pianisimo on Oct 8, 2009 1:26 PM
Music from the Renaissance era by Giovanni Palestrina (this guy could almost pass as one of the 'brethren' - he wears THE beard and does NOT wear THE tie).
The text in all cases is the same. It's the Gloria in Excelsis Deo from the Latin mass of the western Church.
Gloria in excelsis Deo.
Et in terra pax hominibus
bonae voluntatis.
Laudamus te.
Benedicimus te.
Adoramus te.
Glorificamus te.
Gratias agimus tibi
propter magnam gloriam tuam.
Domine Deus,
Rex caelestis,
Deus Pater omnipotens.
Domine Fili unigenite,
Jesu Christe.
Domine Deus, Agnus Dei, Filius Patris,
Qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
Qui tollis peccata mundi, suscipe deprecationem nostram.
Qui sedes ad dexteram Patris, miserere nobis.
Quoniam tu solus Sanctus.
Tu solus Dominus.
Tu solus Altissimus, Jesu Christe.
Cum Sancto Spiritu in gloria Dei Patris. Amen.
The English translation is as follows:
Glory be to God on high
And on earth peace, goodwill towards men,
We praise thee, we bless thee,
we worship thee, we glorify thee,
we give thanks to thee, for thy great glory
O Lord God, heavenly King,
God the Father Almighty.
O Lord, the only-begotten Son Jesu Christ;
O Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father,
that takest away the sin of the world,
have mercy upon us.
Thou that takest away the sin of the world,
have mercy upon us.
Thou that takest away the sin of the world,
receive our prayer.
Thou that sittest at the right hand of God the Father,
have mercy upon us.
For thou only art holy;
thou only art the Lord;
thou only, O Christ,
art most high
in the glory of God the Father.
Amen.
Forreal, I agree with a lot of your thoughts on music. Saul had David play music to soothe his troubled soul. Now what kind of music did David play? Psalms is full of it. Praise and Worship.
Hymns are good as they share with others about God, praising God: is to God for all His wondrous
works, thankfulness, and Worship: is all about God, with your body, soul and spirit.
Another thought: music is often about what is going on in the world. (That includes secular music and Christian music.) calledoutPTL
I sort of like to see embedded vidoes rather than just the address. It really is quite easy doing it this odd way. Simply copy the embed address from youtube and paste it into your post, and put zzz (three zs) after the > (arrow bracket thing). For example when the embed address starts as this
< object width="425" height...
<br>
just put zzz after the < as this
<br>
< zzzobject width="425" height...
<br>
Note do not have a space after the > and before the zzz. I had to put a space in there to make things post right here.
Let the rest of the address the same. I don't know why it works but it seems to work. For some reason sometimes it takes a copy of tries to copy the embed address into your post. Yet links to videos work too and are better than nothing!
This message has been edited by AmosB1 on Oct 8, 2009 7:39 PM This message has been edited by AmosB1 on Oct 8, 2009 7:16 PM This message has been edited by AmosB1 on Oct 8, 2009 7:13 PM
I was wondering how many people like to like to watch violence in movies, involving shooting and killing with blood running, and therewith wonder if these type of people might also like hard rock music or music that is hard and wild and that sounds violent.
I know many people will disagree, but I think a person is sick, Spritually if not sick otherwise, if they like to watch violent shows or videos.
Music that encourages evil, is simply is evil. I once heard some music that simply tended to make me feel violent and like hitting something. Music without any words seems to carry a message.
I wonder what you think of the X rated violence in the Bible and why these stories were necessary - You know the one where she died on the door steps in the early morning hours after being raped all night, and in the morning her partner took her and cut her up in 12 pieces and sent her parts through the country.
The scriptures are full of more or less harrowing stories like this.
Are Christians born to good to understand the depths of the human heart by these stories?
Since music is inanimate, it can not possibly be evil. If vibrations produced by strings over a sound board are evil, the possibility exists for waves crashing on the shore line to be evil also.
We have discussed the effects of music on the listener. If we feel music is evil, or it incites us to do evil, then it is resonating with the evil within our own hearts. Therefore, the evil resides within the listener. The inverse is true also. If music is inspiring and draws us toward higher things, then it is resonating with our better nature.
Now, consider the composer of music. Evil may reside within the heart of the composer and music can be a medium to communicate that evil. As Mr. Ripley explained, a succession of notes and rhythms designed to deliberately convey a message is the language of music. Like any other language, we may not all be able to speak it. However, just as the Aboriginal men of the Dark Continent communicated with the early missionaries by hand signs, body language, and tone-of-voice, so too do many understand the language of music.
Therefore, music is a language. Just like French, English, Spanish, Latin, Platt Deutch, or any other dialect is not inherently evil, neither is music. Evil is inherent within the heart of men, and though communication may be about evil things it is not possible for the form of communication to be evil.
Obviously the Bible has lots of stories of violence in them. Not because it is something we should enjoy seeing being acted out or hearing about, but is a result of people not not following God real plan for them. Yes, David fought many wars, yet he wrote, "The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth." (Psa 11:5). While Psalms 120:7 reads, "I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.".
Are we as so called Christians getting so low that we are going to defend enjoying watching violence on films, similar to how the ancient Romans did in real life?
Yes, we do thank God that Jesus blood was spilt for us, yet because He bore our penelty. Note because we like devils like to see people suffer and blood flow.
Are we going to enjoy putting up skeletons and devilish looking creatures to celibrate Halloween, and then sing praises to God? How can it be Christians are so blind. Some Halloween decorations simply are devilish. Some Rock songs do praise the devil.
Life is too short and time to important to waste time debating with many people.
I feel it quite proper to say speach and words are evil, if they promote evil, even though it only consists of sound waves which are not evil. How does music fit into that scrutiny?
Yet can music without any words encourage evil? I do remember of hearing a song that without any words simply made be feel violent, yet I don't know what song it was. I would like to hear more on this.
This message has been edited by Sirius65 on Oct 9, 2009 10:05 PM This message has been edited by Sirius65 on Oct 9, 2009 10:04 PM This message has been edited by Sirius65 on Oct 9, 2009 9:17 PM
Caution: This forum may contain statements and comments that are offensive. If you are easily offended, please exit this forum now.
By using this forum you agree to be accountable and liable for your post's. All postings are the responsibility of the posting participant. The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the management.
