I found a church for Steve and Kevin

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/video08.html?maven_referralObject=10947313&maven_referralPlaylistId=&sRevUrl=http://www.foxnews.com/

Great idea! The only thing Jesus did in a church was kick some butt. When he spoke to people about the love of the Father, it was with the common people in ordinary situations. Who's to say that he didn't quench his thirst with a goblet or two when he was speaking.

Excellent idea, I lived in a bar on weekends for years and there are many people there who are searching. I know of people who often study their Bible with a bottle of beer on the table. It is no longer my style However I do know that if the holdeman ministers would sit down and have a beer with the couples or fellows they ex they might see another angle.

OK, so that type of church is not my cup of tea, (or pint of beer), BUT, I think that she is on the right track.

I know of an Episcopalian church in Boston that does something somewhat similar, called Theology on Tap, http://www.friendsattheadvent.org/events/20090806/00/ where young adults from the church (and others) meet in a bar for a presentation from a guest speaker followed by discussion over a few drinks. As good Episcopalians, they would not call it a worship service per se, but the intent is similar to the church in Wisconsin.

Some of my own best spiritual discussions have taken place in a casual setting over a couple of drinks. At any rate, I'd be much more likely to go to 'church' at that bar than I would be to go to a Holdechurch - at least the theology at the church in the bar is less likely to be heretical.

Hey, wait a bit, Holdemaner - what are you doing watching television news? Does your local bushmaster know?

Steve you're beautiful especially in the after thought.

I am not a usually a drinking person other than a dinner wine for the pumper.

It was the pharisees who had the preconceived notions about not sharing God's truth over a few flasks of wine. They called Jesus a wine-bibber [in a derogatory way] because they found him sitting and fellowshiping the publicans and heathen persons over a few flasks of wine.

What would Jesus do? Jesus may well be presently doing through the lady what she's doing.

Very interesting concept on spreading the gospel...plus good logic. Why should professing

Christians avoid what they consider sinful places...except for on the mission field?



RE: "Hey, wait a bit, Holdemaner - what are you doing watching television news? Does your
local bushmaster know?"

There is a minister who helped make the Holdeman filters who told me he watched CNN in the
mornings on the PC.
I was surprised but thought it was fine.

I was surprised again whe later an immediate family
member asked me not to send them inspirational videos...(of course, in all fairness,
this immediate family may
not have been watching CNN news)
I responded by saying I apologised for this but assumed
CNN being watched by another family member was basically the same thing and was the reason
I felt it
would not offend anyone. I did not get a response.

I guess this is where the subject of critical thinking or common sense might come in, Huh?

Oxy

Steven, recently the wife and I were invited for lunch by a holdeman couple after a Sunday morning service and they had also invited a deacon and his family. As we men were visiting while the food was being prepared, the discussion went to a news story of the day. They were talking about which newspaper said what and I said I get all my news online from Fox news, CNN, etc, so they were asking me questions and were genuinely interested in how that all worked because they weren't online.
Then the conversation went to other things concerning the internet and I mentioned that I am also on a holdeman forum and they had never heard anything about it and were very interested and asked a lot of questions like who was on there,etc.(I told them some H members were on it, but I didn't name names!) and who was running it and I said some expelled people were. Then as we were walking to the table to eat the guest host made the comment with a big smile, And I suppose they don't have a lot of good things to say about the holdemans do they, and I said, No, not exactly - and they chuckled.

"And I suppose they don't have a lot of good things to say about the holdemans do they, and I said
No, not exactly - and they chuckled."


GM this is exactly the part of the holdeman concept of expelling I don't get. Why would you holdeman
people,want to leave a legacy of bitterness behind? This is EXACTLY what 2nd Corinthians chapter
2 says NOT, I REPEAT,,, NOT, to do.
(Wouldn't ya just love a TR response? It'll snow in hell before that happens!! )

> Why would you holdeman
people,want to leave a legacy of bitterness behind? < <br>

Nas, that is EXACTLY the question I myself have been asking for a long time now, and one that I will never understand either. TR?

Nas and GM...you both are probably going to want to send me to the moon or somewhere else...remote...

But is it not possible the the "chuckle was in response to the human nature norm...of expelled member's bitterness from "the church"?

And not a put down of the expelled?

I know my family would not laugh at that question.

OXY

This is EXACTLY what 2nd Corinthians chapter
2 says NOT, I REPEAT,,, NOT, to do.

I fully agree! However I do know things are changing at some of the congregations. We have gotten a few congratulations on our marriage. (even though only 4 h memebers attended) I stongly believe that the majority of the younger ones who have joined realize that The one true church is a hoax. But many are unsure of what to do. Very seldom do we meet someone who is away from home territory and avoidance is an issue. It is when we are in there territory, Church for a wedding or funeral etc. That people have to decide whether to shake the hand or just give a hug which is better but acceptable. I think if we read that correctly it is up to us to forgive them. Not them to forgive us. We should read and study the Bible for our own growth and learning. Not to try to figure out what someone else, or some other group should or should not be doing. "I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him forever and ever"

Christs church is those who have accepted Christ who died for our sins. Anyone who teaches that one must wear a beard, or cannot wear high heel is full of **** (Something other than the Holy Spirit) John 3:16 and 17 talks about how Jesus died for us and wants us to be saved. Luke 11:42- 52 is a good read

I do realize that many of the H people are not that well versed in the scriptures because they had little education and so depend on the Word they get from the Staff.

It is not up to me to judge - and for this I am thankful. However I do believe some will be held responsible for what they teach if not all in a teaching position. There was a time in that church many years ago that if one was ordained it was for life. I personally knew the first pastor who was asked to step down (many many years ago) and that only after seven ministers from other congregations came to tip the vote. Since that time it seems many are ordained and later step down because of there own choice. Perhaps they see that some things do not line up but they see nothing better? I do not know.

I do know they need our prayers more than our critisizm.

Amen to your last statment...and if one cannot do that...just try to accept them for human beings with faults like the rest of us.

Oxy
Ps. Put this on another link but not knowing if you saw it...after reading your story decided to post it again.

http://www.promiseofgod.com/valleys/

Oxy

Nas,

I do custom tailored responses. What kind of response do you want?

They were talking about which newspaper said what and I said I get all my news online from Fox news, CNN, etc.

GM, it really surprises me that you would get your news from a source that was founded by an Atheist.

Actually, maybe it shouldn't surprise me. Possibly you watch CNN for the same reason that I read the MOT; for what Steve refers to as "comedic relief."

>GM, it really surprises me that you would get your news from a source that was founded by an Atheist.


Yeah Sirius, I know about Ted Turner, the original owner of CNN, and about his atheistic ways. Somewhere around 1990 I remember he made the statement that going to heaven and walking on streets of gold did not interest him at all. But not too long ago he made some changes and joined the Lutheran church.

He is supposedly the largest private landowner in the U.S. , something like over a million acres in states like KS,Neb, and S. Dakota and wherever else, Bison ranches, and uses the Bison meat in his restaurant chain.

But, aside from all that, him being the original owner of CNN has very little to do with the news they churn out. In fact, I get very little news from them as I have a lot of other sources for news.

Sirius, the one to watch for comedic relief is MSNBC.