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Is There a God?

October 25 2009 at 2:23 PM

  (Login AmosB1)

The below is found at this link;
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html?gclid=CN7BqMeA2Z0CFU1M5QodyEsZyw#





Is There A God?

By Marilyn Adamson

About this Author: As a former atheist, Marilyn Adamson found it difficult to refute the continuously answered prayers and quality of life of a close friend. In challenging the beliefs of her friend, Marilyn was amazed to learn the wealth of objective evidence pointing to the existence of God. After about a year of persistent questioning, she responded to God's offer to come into her life and has found faith in Him to be constantly substantiated and greatly rewarding



When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billions of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16

Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.

Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18

God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.

If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.
This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."

God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20

So, does God exist? Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way. If you need more information about Jesus' claim to divinity, or about God's existence, or if you have similar important questions, please email us.


 
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oxy
(Login oxymoronish)
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Amos

October 25 2009, 2:30 PM 


VERY INTERESTING To me...an agnostic who never-the-less is a seeker of truth.

OXY

 
 

(Login Howie7)
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Is there a God?

October 25 2009, 7:57 PM 

Oxy

http://www.thetruthproject.org/

Often this is viewed by groups seeking the Truth.

 
 

oxy
(Login oxymoronish)
Registered Users

Howie

October 25 2009, 9:05 PM 


How very interesting! This link is associated with Focus on the Family.

My best friend's daughter worked for James Dobson, the founder of Focus on the Family...in his office, for 5 years.

In fact, Karen helped write some of his monthy articles.

Thanks for sharing.
OXY

 
 

(Login DrSkeptic)

Re: Is There a God?

October 25 2009, 10:19 PM 

Amos, I disagree that the compatibility of the physics of the earth and life as we know it are proof of Gods existence. Here is my reasoning:

First of all, life as we know it has adapted to the conditions of the earth. We say everything is perfect for life, but life had to adapt to any conditions of our planet and solar system in order to survive. If you believe in evolution as I do, the fact our environment seems to fit our physical bodies is no surprise.

The other factor is that there are trillions and trillions of other planets in this universe. So far the ones we are familiar with do not have conditions which would support the type of life we know, but we only know so few they dont hardly even count. So in those trillions of planets, statistics alone will dictate there are a few that have exactly the right conditions for intelligent life. And you can bet that the intelligence on those few will be amazed at the chances and will be tempted to attribute their luck to a deity.

The other comment I have is that even if you can build a case for a creator, I dont see the logic in tying that creator to the superstitions of a 4000 year old band of ignorant sheep herders.

 
 


(Login bawar)

Re: Is There a God?

October 26 2009, 5:22 AM 

Amos, I can prove there is no God. (sarcasm coming up)

I took some old steel, and copper, and a little plastic and silicon, and added a torch's heat to the conglomeration, and out of that goo, came forth a nice Macintosh duo core computer. Now I don't need to replace my old emac!


 
 


(Login doug-64)

God?

October 26 2009, 7:10 AM 



Not all sheep tenders are ignorant Stan. Some manage to get out of the rain when it's raining.

Ignorant people can believe from the heart. It's about Faith; initially it's not about absolute evidence. The gift of Faith itself is the evidence of things not seen. Most of the evidence for God comes in after one believes from the heart! It's not scientific.

To demand absolute or great evidence before the gift of Faith comes to us, is a certain type of faith but this faith is in the deductible prowess of our own minds.

In my opinion all men and women who believe in love, justice, forgiveness, mercy, intellect, and second chances believe in God, for this is what He is! He may not be personal to all those who believe in the above things, but He can be!

To try to prove that God exists is as futile as trying to prove that God does not exist. Evidence is one thing, proof is quite another. If He could be proven to exist then the honest intellectual must believe. The proof is withheld from us for good reason. It's about the choice to believe!

 
 
Stan
(Login DrSkeptic)

Re: Is There a God?

October 26 2009, 8:07 AM 

Doug, true, not all sheep herders were ignorant. But there were societies much more advanced in 3 or 4000 B.C. than this roving band of sheep herders without a home land. The Chinese and the Egyptians, for instance. They had a better understanding of science and math and recorded text.

For the life of me, I can't understand the logic in the value of faith. We are denied evidence for something, given plently of evidence against it, and we some how come up with the idea that there is intrinsic value in believing it anyway because this act of faith is so noble.

Explain the logic of a God who rewards those who stubornly believe something despite the evidence against it. So then whose faith do you choose to accept and believe in the absence of evidence? Do you take a chance and go with the faith of your ancestors? Most people do.

But according to almost everyone's faith beliefs, those whose ancestors were wrong do not reap the reward of faith!

 
 

(Login Healthie)

Is there a God?

October 26 2009, 9:40 AM 

For me it would be very hard to not believe that there is a God. When I look out and see the art of the changing seasons the order, the River flowining by and think it just happened by a big bang years ago would be beyond my ability. Howeveer as I have went through life, lost the life of 2 wives, faced poverty, and had many challenges I would have been much easier tempted as Job's wife told him to curse God and die. However God has always had a more and more for me. I know where I am going and look forward to Life eternal with him.

 
 


(Login doug-64)

God is?

October 26 2009, 10:21 AM 

The logic of living Faith [not speaking of the tenants of a faith of one's fathers] is that the Faith that lives causes one's life to ascend upward in quality day by day. This is not a science but it is the undeniable logic of Faith!

This type Faith is not a game that people decide to play upon waking up on a given morning.

The evidence that God lives and can be personally involved in our lives, comes in for most part after one believes from the heart. If a person sees no need or has no desire to believe from the heart, then that is the choice of the person.

When informed of the Gospel, people who [want to believe] will very likely come to a living Faith! Indeed it's a heart matter while the mind is merely cooperating. Faith is kind of scary if you do not want to believe. There is a leap into the unknown!

For those who want to believe it's joy, rest, and peace!

Ignorant people can freely enjoy God!


    
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Oct 26, 2009 11:35 AM
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Oct 26, 2009 10:22 AM


 
 

oxy
(Login oxymoronish)
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Doug

October 26 2009, 5:03 PM 

I believe you hit the truth exactly on the head...Belief in God and faith is a choice, since there is no absolute proof either way.

Kierkegaard calls this the "Leap of Faith".

Oxy


    
This message has been edited by oxymoronish on Oct 26, 2009 7:06 PM


 
 

(Login GMman1)

Re: Is There a God?

October 26 2009, 5:13 PM 

Nothing created everything by Ray Comfort


http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=110293

 
 

oxy
(Login oxymoronish)
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GM

October 26 2009, 7:12 PM 

Since I am seeking the truth for myself...the article made some excellent points to me.

Thank you:)

Oxy

 
 

Amos
(Login AmosB1)

Re: Is There a God?

October 26 2009, 8:17 PM 


I simply have to disagree with those who say there is no evidence of a God, and we simply have to go by faith. The following verse agree with what I am saying and reads, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork." (Psa 19:1). Yes many other things declare His glory.

To believe nothing made something, the unintellegent made the intellegent. The powerless made the powerful. The dead made the alive takes the faith of an idiot or at least is harder to believe than to believe in a God.

I believe to say their is no God, is just or more bizzare than worhiping stones and wood and saying these are our God. Yet why argue with those who worship stones or who say their is no God, as most will simply dot about questions and strifs of words and make muddy water and trust in the mud.

Sorry I get a little upset with people who never change, and that is not only idol worshippers or atheists.

May God through Christ have mercy on us.

 
 

(Login GMman1)

Re: Is There a God?

October 26 2009, 8:26 PM 

Sure, Oxy. I also want to say that by posting that it was not meant as a slam to anyone here but I was just intriqued by his approach to the controversial questions of the existence of God and creation.

 
 

oxy
(Login oxymoronish)
Registered Users

GM and Amos

October 26 2009, 8:42 PM 

GM:

I found this approach intriguing too..


Amos:


I can see that I did not clarify my statements about there being a God.

The clarification is: one must believe the Bible first to believe in God.

I want to believe in God...or I would not be on this site...seeking...
and I ask him to show me the way for me... in a stress free way...
not necessarily my ingrained training as a Holdeman...

Being a ministers's daughter and being the eldest...the Holdeman beliefs were very strongly planted.

Oxy

 
 
Stan
(Login DrSkeptic)

Re: Is There a God?

October 26 2009, 10:34 PM 

GM, Ray Comfort is a very personable guy with an effective way of drawing attention to his ideas through humor and plain talk. But he is a little unfair with his criticism of his opponents when he asks questions in such a way to make them appear foolish.

For instance, he ignores the tons of physical evidence for evolution and goes directly to the questions nobody really knows: how something was created from nothing in the Big Bang. No matter what you tell him he will make you look like a fool if you deny a creator. If you say something was created from the energy of the big bang, he seems to pretend you are admitting that the creator is God. And of course he cant disconnect any creator from the Biblical God. In other words, I see huge leaps of logical fallacies in his approach.

If Scientists would follow Comforts lead, they would just throw in the towel whenever a problem gets to difficult, with God did it. Problem solved!

Science has not started with the tenant of the Big Bang. Rather, is it a concept arrived at after a lot of evidence pointing towards it and a lot of dot connecting. It is a theory that explains a lot of evidence, and contradicts none. It is unfair to saddle someone with the responsibility of explaining what happened before it or why it happened, or where the energy came from. We will probably never know.

 
 

oxy
(Login oxymoronish)
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Stan

October 26 2009, 11:29 PM 



"But he is a little unfair with his criticism of his opponents when he asks questions in such a way to make them appear foolish".

Re" speaking of Mr Comfort's approach, I did find it intriquing, However, you make a very valid point about making the unbeliever feel foolish. I missed that significance in my hasty first perusual.

No one should ever be made to feel foolish for what they believe...

oxy


    
This message has been edited by oxymoronish on Oct 26, 2009 11:35 PM


 
 

(Login BrentU)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 5:13 AM 

"It is unfair to saddle someone with the responsibility of explaining what happened before it or why it happened, or where the energy came from. We will probably never know."

Stan,

Then that could be God that lit the fuse. And would be just as fair to say as "We will probably never know".

Brent


    
This message has been edited by BrentU on Oct 27, 2009 5:20 AM


 
 


(Login doug-64)

God?

October 27 2009, 7:46 AM 


Amos;

No one including myself has said that the evidence is [all] about Faith. It appears that that is what you were insinuating about what I have written at different times.

There are six day creationists who because they think they are so right, take license to intimidate those whose view is different. That may preach well to the choir but it does not preach well to the unbelieving.

Evidence is a far less quality than [proof]. [Proof] that God exists by study and observation is what I have said does not exist. If this proof did exist in these quarters, then the honestly intelligent person would have to believe, even against his will, and that's just not the way it is. The idea that [proof] exists by study and observation, of itself is against God and his nature. It's actually about a choice. Finally it's about wanting to believe as opposed to not wanting to believe! Ultimately it's about belief from the heart; now the thing becomes very personal!

I have said that there is evidence that God exists by saying that [most] of the evidence comes in after belief from the heart. After belief from the heart in Spiritual ways God now begins to [prove] himself to us since for good reason He has chosen not to prove Himself by mental observation. The God the believer believes in does not really appeal to the mind but rather to the heart.

As for myself I completely believe in intelligent design and that God is this intelligence! If those six increments of creative light were spoken of as six days, I have no problem with that though they be extremely long increments of light.

No one can come to God until he or she sees some evidence that God is. "One must first believe that He is and that He rewards those who diligently seek Him before one can come to Him."

Brent;

The switch may have been in God's hand. I like that alot.

This is what I believe to be true. No human witnessed the initial creation. Moses in Genesis wrote of it. How? Moses was a see-er. That's a descriptive term for the word prophet. Moses took a whole lot upon himself when writing about creation. When by revelation Moses saw God hovering over the darkness and then at a point Moses saw that God said "let there be light". My belief is that that is the precise moment of the explosion of light or the big bang! Science is well able to see some things.


    
This message has been edited by doug-64 on Oct 27, 2009 9:54 AM


 
 

(Login BrentU)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 8:32 AM 

R. Crumb has just illustrated a comic book version of the Book of Genesis.

The counterculture artist comes from a long line of atheist, and his other comic books are anything but righteous by church standards.

But his "comic book on Genesis is surprisingly faithful to the text".

You can read more about it in The New York Times - 10-18-09

Brent

 
 

(Login anaverageh)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 8:43 AM 


My wife says she has proof that God exists...

If evolution were for certain then she would be growing another arm happy.gif

 
 

(Login anaverageh)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 8:44 AM 


My wife says she has proof that God exists...

If evolution were for certain then she would be growing another arm happy.gif

 
 


(Login oxymoronish)
Registered Users

An extra

October 27 2009, 12:21 PM 

arm would certainly come in handy at times.)

oxy

 
 
Gene
(Login Gene45)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 12:52 PM 

Derailing alert!


>>>Science has not started with the tenant of the Big Bang. Rather, is it a concept arrived at after a lot of evidence pointing towards it and a lot of dot connecting. It is a theory that explains a lot of evidence, and contradicts none.<< <br>


Ya know, Stan, back, not so long ago, when Carl Sagan wrote his book "Cosmos" one could still question the foundations of the Big Bang theory (Get the book and look up his comments concerning Halton Arp.) Nowdays it's no longer possible. Why is that? What happened between then and now? Did it get nailed down that tightly by incontrovertable "evidence" or did it find itself unable, time after time, to predict even the simplest things and now finds itself in the embarasssing position of having to come up with ad hoc crap like black holes, dark matter etc. etc.? Any objective review of history will reveal that it FAILED to predict the high-energy events discovered in the 60's (so black holes were summoned up), it FAILED to predict the expansion rate of the universe (here comes inflation theory and dark energy), it FAILED to predict the rotation rate of galaxies ( just add some invisible dark matter and all is well), it FAILED to predict the filamentary nature of the universe on a grand scale, it FAILED to predict the correct CMB temperature (Gamow put it between 40 and 50 degrees-several orders of magnitude higher than the measured 2.7 or so degrees). The list of failures and consequent "repairs" gets lengthy. With such magnificent self-repairing abilities it's no wonder no evidence contradicts it!


Carry on with thread.

 
 

(Login gpmiller)

ignorant sheepherders

October 27 2009, 1:13 PM 

"Science has not started with the tenant of the Big Bang. Rather, is it a concept arrived at after a lot of evidence pointing towards it and a lot of dot connecting. It is a theory that explains a lot of evidence, and contradicts none. It is unfair to saddle someone with the responsibility of explaining what happened before it or why it happened, or where the energy came from. We will probably never know."

As a creationist, I also believe in the big bang. Just think of when God said "let there be light" and BANG!!! the sun caught fire! Now that was a BIG bang!

I am not taking issue with anyone, because we are created as people with choices. I happen to believe that choosing to love the One that saved me is a wise choice. Look at it this way: If I am wrong, I have lost nothing because I have a good life and a healthy lifestyle. If you (an atheist) are wrong, you have lost everything. I believe the odds are pretty obvious.

Psalm 53:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God..."

 
 

(Login DrSkeptic)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 1:49 PM 

Gene, as I have stated before, you obviously know a lot more about these objections to the current accepted cosmology theories than I do. If the ideas you bring forth are based on good science, then as a skeptic I say well done, and carry on. If current cosmology is propped up with Ad Hoc theories to fit new evidence, rather than new evidence supporting an accepted theory, then this criticism is right on.

I keep saying I will look into it, but never seem to find the time. The problem is that I am not well enough connected to the current science research to make an informed opinion. I read what you promote, and it all sounds reasonable to doubt the accepted theories. I read the about the process of how the Big Bang theory came into being, the additional dark energy and matter, the justification for them, and it all sounds right on.

We are all guilty of information bias. That is where you only take in information that fits the theories you want to believe. If all I read were the objections and never studied the history of the accepted theories, I would reject them also. But I will admit I spend most of my effort studying the accepted theories and not the objections. I partly justify that because a person only has so much time, and you cant go around giving equal credibility to every quack theory out there when mainstream science has a pretty good proven record.

 
 

(Login DrSkeptic)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 1:59 PM 

Brent said, 'Then that could be God that lit the fuse. And would be just as fair to say as "We will probably never know".'

Fair enough Brent. We simply dont know, and I would leave it there. It could be, as Einstein believed, some cosmic god who bundled all the physical laws and energy into that tiny nucleus that became the big bang, and set the universe into motion.

It is interesting that you bring up R. Crumbs comic book illustration of the book of Genesis. I just heard about that on a podcast a couple of days ago. I heard the same thing about it being faithful to the text. It also makes the story harder to swallow when you see it in comic book form. (as if it were not hard enough already).

You can read about it here:http://rawstory.com/2009/09/subversive-cartoonist-crumb-zaps-bible/

Edited to add Brents quote at top


    
This message has been edited by DrSkeptic on Oct 27, 2009 2:51 PM


 
 

Amos
(Login AmosB1)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 3:56 PM 

Our complex world and universe itself reveals a greater and more intelligent power than man, and it is only reasonable to believe that the great power that made these things is interested in and watching what He made, and only reasonable to believe that the power that can make life, need not die and is thus yet alive. Yet even so us weak humans still sometimes cannot believe this, and thus this power touches some doubters in a special manner and convinces them of His existence.

Just because us weak humans sometimes need more than the evidence of creation to teach us their is a God, and God gives us a special touch to make us believe, and we believe because of His touch rather than because of evidence, does not mean their is no evidence or proof in His creation.

May this God have mercy on us.

 
 


(Login doug-64)

God is?

October 27 2009, 4:04 PM 



Great post, Amos.

 
 

(Login BrentU)

Re: Is There a God?

October 27 2009, 7:18 PM 

Stan,

What I found interesting about this work, the endeavor of good artist is usually more pure than the life of the artist. I discovered this on my own, and was floored much later when I read an essay on the creation of artistic works suggesting the same thing. It seems to be especially true for musicians, writers, and painters. Their work always ends up being a medium for spiritual things.

I'm not saying it's a pure work because people think the book of Genesis is true. It's a pure work because he didn't mess with the history, religious culture and tradition of the text, being faithful to it. He had every opportunity to ridicule and scorn Genesis in a comic book version. According to his foregoing work, he was more suited for it.

Why would a person spend four years of their life in gruelling work writing a comic book almost word for word of Genesis, depicting it historically as it is believed and so often preached?

The way I see it, he has bolstered and supported a large part of what influences humans, that is nearly world wide, and a reality that cannot just lightly be brushed aside. At some point in the pursuit of truth, the Bible has to be honestly given consideration. There's no way a seeking person can avoid it. It's to much a part of our world.

Brent

 
 
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