We extend to you a cordial "WELCOME ABOARD !" Come on in, make yourself at home, we are a friendly group of enthusiasts, and we also appreciate the classic Chris Craft Roamer, Corsair, and Lancer boats too , as they are all on the same family tree and share much in common !
Did CC make a 30-foot Commander Sport Fisherman model?
July 1 2006 at 5:13 PM
Marty Shimmel (no login)
Hello, I am looking at a boat for sale locally here in the Savannah, GA, area. It is listed as a Chris, and it has Chris Craft on the side of the boat, upper steering station. The seller is calling it a Sport Fisherman, is this a Commander? Boat is listed as a 1977 model, hull number MFA-30-247. It has small block Chevrolet motors. Price is quite high, condition is good, and it looks like it is a pretty nice fishing rig. I am trying to get comps and info but so far I have come up with nothing in my attempt to do some homework on this.
A friend said to check this site, and perhaps someone here would be able to help identify the boat. Any pointers if it was a good model, had problems with blistering, whatever, would be appreciated.
I FINALLY found this boat in the EG, (not in the Commander section)
July 2 2006, 11:00 AM
After seeing this particular model show up again, I looked it up in the Essential Guide, and they donít even show this one as a Commander. Looking at Billís brochure, however, clears that up fast. Funny thing, in Michigan City at the Commander rendezvous a year ago, nobody else knew it was a Commander either! I thought it was just a good looking Chris of another line, and I was obviously standing right there on the docks with everyone else, close enough to take the photos. Had I known, I would have been all over that one. I thought it was cool enough to get a few photos, but continue to learn a lot from people who post info here. Thanks again Bill, for all youíve shared here and for all youíve taught me too! J Hereís that thread you referenced. http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1140281553
In many senses this is ďthe perfect boatĒ. Small enough, good power, open design, great lines, deep v hull design. Ahhh Haaa! Just found it in the Essential Guide, page 339 in my edition, not sure how many versions of this book are out, but mine is the 2002 Mariners Museum version. Iím surprised, only 46 open hulls made, and 253 with flybridge. I really like that open boat. Only power option was the 350K, again, Iím not familiar with that motor.
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 3, 2006 11:34 PM
I'm new at this and apparently just erased my message, so I'll try agin. In response to Paul, I think, the boat in the photo looks alot like our 1978 30' twin engine Chris Craft Sportsman.
The Essential Guide shows this model on page 339, but the book ends with the year 1977. In 1978 Chris Craft manufactured a few more hulls of the Sportsman. Ours is Hull#51. Same Ray Hunt heavy duty fiberglass hull and same open design with mahogany cabinets in the dinette and sink areas, all up, and a V-berth below, and lots of mahogany trim. Sunpads on the twin 250 Marine Power engines and the smoothest and driest ride in any weather - as one would expect from this famous hull.
Hope to have clarified the identity of this wonderful classic Chris Craft.
Welcome to the forum, by the way, and don't hesitate to post photos of your Hunt designed Sportsman. Those are great boats, and we are always on the lookout for photos and more info.
In order to post an image here, you have to copy and paste the uploaded image link here, so if you're not familiar with how to do that, you can still send me images by email to firstname.lastname@example.org and I'll upload them for you.
Thanks for the welcome and for your offer to post photos of our boat. We just purchased it in 2006 and I was wandering around the web looking for more information about this classic old Chris Craft when I came upon your site. What fun!
These are photos we took last summer. May be too large, but the second one does show the interior quite well. We feel very fortunate to have found such a special boat in such excellent condition. It is such a pleasure to ride in - with that great hull and 12' beam, it just laughs at the waves! And with the twin screw - makes docking so easy.
UPDATE: This boat was published in the book, "THE LEGACY OF THE CHRIS CRAFT COMMANDER", page 38 and 39 of the first edition.
In the event anyone wants to learn more about the 30-foot Commanders designed by C. Ray Hunt, check out this link (our MASTER INDEX FILE) and you will see NUMEROUS threads to this interesting model.
The 30' Sportsman is one of my alltime favorite boats, and you are right, they take the waves like they aren't even there, when many other boats would be pounding.
Hunt is still in the news, by the way. Have you seen page 33 in the Dec 2007 edition of Motor Boating Magazine? They feature a bran new 25' HARRIER hull by Hunt, that is undoubtedly just like yours underneath.
The Sportsman evolved into the boat they tested in the September 2007 edition of Yachting, which can be found here if anyone is interested (PDF). It's a 29' SURFHUNTER.
Here is a photo of the new Hunt Harrier 25 ( strong family resemblence ) ( more photos )
November 21 2007, 11:15 AM
This is the boat you mentioned that is in MB Magazine this month.
It looks just like the Moppie of 1958 that made Hunt famous.
The Original Moppie
The deep-vee begins to emerge in Hunt's 1949 design, Sea Blitz, which was commissioned by Hunt enthusiast Bradley Noyes. The bow sections are straighter and Hunt increased the deadrise noticeably, carrying it aft with virtually no flattering. Instead of a broad stern, there was a vee something like the bow. Hunt loved to build prototypes. By 1958, a wooden deep-vee, complete with lifting strakes and 24 degrees of deadrise, was turning heads in Newport, RI. One July day, Bertram, a crewman aboard the 12 meter Vim, looked up to see "something special hurtling across" the bay. Bertram made a mental note to corner Hunt after the day's racing. He took a short ride the very next day and immediately ordered the 31 footer that would become the record-setting Moppie.
Mitchell's Miami-Nassau race story appeared in Sports Illustrated, spreading the deep-vee story to an emerging class of postwar recreational boaters. Businessmen noticed it too, and the race for the new powerboat market was on, with Bertram at the forefront. Moppie was quickly turned into a plug and a mold was cast to produce fiberglass versions under license to Hunt. Hunt shunned the accolades that started coming his way and, as a result, some people considered him standoffish, Deknatel recalled. Meanwhile, other boat companies copied the deep-vee, and Hunt was unable to patent his idea. Drawings had appeared in a boating magazine early in 1958 as part of a story on the design. Patent rules stipulated that a patent application must be filed within a year after the invention has been written about or used - and Hunt had missed the deadline.
A phase of unsuccessful patent infringement suits followed, in which the oversight proved his undoing, Deknatel recalled. Even as he was working on the deep-vee, Hunt continued to design other craft. He worked with partners Dick Fisher and Bob Pierce on the experimental tri-hull shape that would become the Boston Whaler. Hunt convinced Fisher and Pierce to make the foam-cored boat an outboard instead of a sailboat.
Paul's notation : As history has recorded it, Jim Wynne was the one who managed to patent the lifting strake hull design, after he modified it and successfully raced it in offshore racing as well. Hunt, Wynne, Bertram,
From the 1966 Corsair Catalog
From the 1966 Corsair Catalog
Here's a 20' transdrive Corsair, 1966 model, looking just like the Bertram version, except for the strengthening ribbed fiberglass lapstrakes in the sides.
Here's what the aft view of a 20 Corsair looks like. This one happens to be my 20' 1966 Sea Skiff, which is essentially the same casting as the 20' Corsair, with some cosmetic changes. As you can see, this one is a true inboard model.
By contrast, this is what the 1966 Bertram looks like from the rear.
While we're looking at hulls, may as well add one of the Jim Wynne designed 23' Commander, this one belongs to Bill Policastro.
Here's Mercrewser's 19' XK by Jim Wynne
It's obvious this was a hot hull design and many people were building their own version. John Hacker actually touched upon this design long ago, but witout the strakes.
More about the Bertram ...................
BERTRAM RUNABOUT 20'
A Classic in the style of 'Moppie'
This was a very influential design. Many subsequent designs tried to copy it, but usually with much lighter (and cheaper) construction.
Hull shape is a deep V with lifting strakes. It is 20' (6.1m)LOA, with an 8' (2.44m) beam.
It is very heavily built, with some models weighing 3000 lbs (1430 kg).
It is very smooth riding and dry, and very gentle coming to a plane.
It is foam-filled for positive floatation. It has side lockers for storage
In has three seats forward; there are jump seats in the stern.
Here are a pair of 1966 Bertram 20's, good looking boats, and a dead ringer for a Lancer? Chris Craft was building a nearly identical boat called the Corsair or the Lancer during this same time frame.
without a doubt, the absolute perfect lake boat of ALL time. I believe Barbara's boat was for sale at one point last year for over $100K, am I right? Too bad more of these weren't built... maybe I could afford one! (not to mention FIND one for sale!)>
We purchased our boat in the spring of 2006 and the listing price was under 100K. There must have been another one out there. So nice to hear your praise of this great classic CC! This IS the perfect boat for us! We were looking for an open boat, glass hull, twin screw, large enough to accommodate a group for a day trip, sort of a picnic boat. We also wanted the classic lines and beautiful interior mahogany so reminiscent of the wooden Lyman Open Sportsman. We feel so fortunate to have found all this and more - that great Hunt hull - in this classic CC!
I did a very quick search on boats.com and found 15 of these for sale, but they're all the TF (flybridge) models. I didn't find any open boats like yours for sale, although I'm sure there would be a couple out there, if someone did an exhaustive search.
Ray Hunt designed for Bertram and for Chris Craft, however, his relationship with Chris Craft seems to have been abbreviated. I heard casual comment about "this is the hull Bertram and Chris Craft went to court over", and I'm wondering if Bertram resented the fact that Mr. Hunt was their almost "captive" designer in the racing days and production days, and they may not have taken kindly to his producing such a great looking boat for Chris Craft (at a lower price perhaps?)
Anyone able to confirm that rumor?
As for John Kloka...........time's a wasting John, it's almost December!!
Paul, don't count me out, and don't think I don't know where the hidden boats are at! The few opens for sale at this time have too many mods for me (i.e. stripped out for fishing, or towers added, etc...). Being that only 66 of these were built, there are never too many up for grabs at any one time. Officially produced from '75 - '77, I have seen one or two '78's out there... you know how that goes. On Lake St. Clair, I know of 7 open models and where they are moored. Not to mention the one under cover in Put-In-Bay, on Lake Erie! I've got my eyes wide open for one of these.
The area is so rich in boats and boating culture, I love it. It reminds me of growing up on Conneaut Lake, in Pennsylvania, but we only had a tiny little bit of what you guys have on St. Clair. Good hunting!
Greetings! Saw your message and thought I'd respond. I've dealt with these boats (as a broker) for 10 years, and sold about 16 of them (Tournaments and Sportsmen). I've owned two, and have another. My hull number is #59, and I'm wondering if yours is second from the last produced...and mine is the last. Don't know, still researching.
Welcome Aboard Laurence! Glad to have you as a reader and particpant.
These Hunt designed boats have some of the NICEST lines around!
I have always wondered why they didn't produce more of them. Have you heard any truth to the story that this was a litigation problem between Bertram and Chris Craft??
I realize that this is an ancient thread, but does anyone have any details about the catalog page shown here? I am in the process of buying one of these that is lised as a 1978 model, I sure would like to see any pertinent historical information!
The one I am looking at has the upper steering station, but that is the exact same model I am looking at. This is more information than the owner of the boat has. He is not the original owner. Thank you so much everyone, this is great.
Any truth (Bertram took Chris Craft to court over this hull design?) 1976 TF photos!
November 24 2007, 4:35 PM
1976 Chis Craft Tournament Fisherman, Mattituck, NY, $24,900, Crusader 454s with 1200 hours. Salt water boat, but with heat exchangers. Prenently for sale on Boats.com along with about 15 other ones that look almost identical (no open Sportsmen for sale at this time).
Doing a quick search on boats.com, I found no less than 15 of these boats around the country for sale from a low of around $25,000 to a high of around $80,000 with diesel power. Anyone looking for one should have some pretty good hunting this time of year.
As for the open Sportsman version of this boat, not a one listed in boats.com, but I suspect an hour of searching would turn up a few. John Kloka, better start googling!
More like take a deep breath! I wish I could see the cockpit in that one. The one I saw last year for $125K had custom filler cusions between the engine boxes among other cool updates. I think this is the boat, and I swear it's Barbara's (before she bought it), but I haven't seen them in person.
What I will say is $72,500 is what I consider "Brain Damage" money. If someone will pay it, that's great, but not me...
I agree, the price is high, but in a supply and demand environment, quality, good looks, performance, and low volume always brings a high price. Even at that age, the demand for this particular model is very high, and there is a pretty avid following. I don't see this changing any time soon.
I dare say, any of these put on the marketplace will be snapped up quickly, and that forces asking prices up. Depreciation is also a factor. If you pay the same dollar for this boat, turn around and put the same dollar into a new BRAND-X, ten years later you'll be able to get your money back out of the Chris Craft and it will be crying time for the other one. The new jelly bean won't look good any more, all the new plastic gizmos won't work, it will be just one more boat on the market nobody is interested in, and it will be tough to sell for any kind of a reasonable price. The Chris, on the other hand, will weather a ten year test of time very well, will look just as good then as it does now, will be in even more demand, and you may not be able to get all your money back but there is a chance you might even be able to MAKE some cash on the final resale.
I bought a 35' wood Sea Skiff many years ago, restored it well enough to get five or six pages in Classic Boating, and sold it eventually for 2X what I paid for it. At the time it was worth the asking price too. Although I did sink some enjoyable time into it, and some cash too, the sale of that boat actually paid for all of my boating expenses over a period of years. I couldn't have done that with a Burnscraft, for instance, but I could with a vintage Chris Craft.
Various models have better resale and value than others. The 30' Hunt designed Sportsman is at or near the top of the food chain when it comes to exclusivity and value in a 30' hull. Compared to the asking prices of similar boats with the Bertram badge on the hull, the price is quite competitive. Very few boats at any cost these days can match what they have in a 30' hull, and if it takes brain damage money to get one, well, there's another guy out there with brain damage money who would always be there to buy. Yes, I know, it makes it tough for the rest of us, ha!
Take that boat to Ft. Lauderdale in the condition it is, put it on the market with a good yacht broker, there would be a line of people eagerly waiting to pay that price and probably more right now.
As you know, especially in your part of the country, there are some real deals to be had. There are so many boats in your immediate area, the choices are amazing. Here in Tennessee, for instance, I only know of one other 38' Commander in a two hundred mile radius. Howard Echols has one in North Alabama I'm aware of, and Ronnie Pearce has (had?) one near here locally. The latter was the first Commander I ever saw many years ago, I tried to buy it at the time and he got so tired of hearing me grovel, he finally relented and said "okay, I'll sell it to you, for a hundred thousand dollars". I then realized I was capable of taking a hint, ha ha, and never saw the boat for many years after, only to see it in sad shape after Ronnie either lost interest or moved on. I think that boat is still in the area, but the last time I saw it, it was not the gleaming show boat I remember, it was a project boat and the price was waaay lower than the hundred grand.
KLOKANUTS was a beauty! Not sure how you found it in the first place, but that was one sweet looking 35. I'm sure there are other deals out there like it too, especially in your part of the country.
Ah well, enough rambling. When it comes to boats I generally like to buy low, and have as much fun as if I bought high. I paid $3900 for that Sea Skiff project, and I've had a ball with it. I bought our Commander at a rock bottom price, but I had to spend a lot of (mostly enjoyable) time dealing with the sins of a previous owner.
I think this looks EXTREMELY SIMILAR to the boat we purchased 18 months ago and it did/does have a custom filler cushion between the engine boxes, and I think you're right, it's probably the same boat, but never, as far as we know, listed for $125K!!!!!
Can't imagine why it's still on the internet for sale.
John, thanks so much for your kind words and good wishes! There are lots of beautiful vintage boats in the area where we summer, but I haven't yet seen another one like this. Our Canadian neighbor, when he first saw it, said "Hey, shouldn't that boat be in the Bahamas?" He's probably right. That might be a more appropriate setting for it, but we found it right there in The 1000 Islands. And - I think the seller did say that he'd originally found it in Michigan.
Yes. I think it is. The weird thing was that when we found the listing for our boat, we noticed another listing, by the same seller, on another site, for what appeared to be the exact same boat, but at a slightly different price. I think he may be advertising our boat still. It appears to be the same to me, and - as I recall - he had only one other similar hull for sale at the time, and it was definitely a fishing boat - not the open sportsman. I can't imagine why he would still have this listing on the internet. We bought the boat in 2006!
Somebody should give him a call and see what he says.
Great boat Barbara, I'm envious. It's not uncommon for people who are preoccupied with selling to list their boat on numerous sites, and then either forget to close the account, forget how to close it, or simply cannot get the attention of the web site to close it for them. No telling how many boats listed for sale, that are actually long gone.
One thing for sure, you got a good one! I would love to take that one way out fast trolling for tuna, or just out for a nice bottom fishing for grouper.
You're probably correct. Our seller was a broker as well, although he told us this was his personal boat, and I have no reason to doubt him. He certainly had done beautiful restoration of the mahogany and added new canvas, and cushions, etc. Like you, I prefer to assume the best of people. Thanks for your compliments on our boat. We think it's pretty special and feel lucky to have found it!
Just noticed the boat that started it all with you in Michigan City "De Judge" just got listed on Yachtworld. It also looks like a sale is already pending. Probably one of the best boats I have ever owned, but hard to come by with good care and fresh water. Someone got a good deal even if they paid the $29,000 asking price...
Matt, I agree the price would be reasonable for that model because they are coveted by the knowledgable boating enthusiasts.
Oddly, even at a CHRIS CRAFT COMMANDER RENDEZVOUS a few years back in Michigan City, with all the boats parked along the docks, this guy drove the boat right in front of us and NOBODY there even knew it was a Commander, lol. At least I got the photos. Too bad, because nobody in our group waived the guy over to even talk with him.
Later, thanks in part to people who own this model and comments from Bill Thomas, we found that CC was in fact, selling this model as a Commander, along-side other well known Commander models.