CHRIS CRAFT COMMANDER FORUM ® .......A photo-intensive technical reference file and ongoing newsletter regarding the original fiberglass Chris-Craft Commander series. This is an independent not-for-profit and non-commercial web site, not affiliated with the Chris Craft Commander Club ~~ or ~~ Chris-Craft Corporation. Our mission here is to "have fun and share information" about the Commander series (and those associated fiberglass boats on the Chris-Craft family tree) for your individual personal use, and by doing so help promote the good name of Chris-Craft, and help preserve, restore, and appreciate Chris-Craft boats. The main reference feature is the ever expanding MASTER INDEX File which contains what we believe to be the world's largest collection of documentation photos and technical information on the Chris-Craft Commander line of boats, (like these original brochure scans, featuring the iconic first 38 Commander styled by Fred Hudson, and many of the great Dick Avery renditions that followed) , (a huge collection of Chris-Craft 427 tuning and specification information), and a few words about how to use the forum.

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* Chris Craft Power

February 22 2007 at 4:54 PM
Paul  (no login)

Chris Craft built their own motors from scratch back in the old days of the A-120. Those motors had something like 800 cubic inches and 250-hp, and they weighed enough to anchor the Queen Mary II.

Later as flathead four and six cylinder motors became commonplace, as manufactured by Chrysler, Graymarine, and Hercules, Chris Craft turned to the Hercules brand for their main power options.

In 1959 CC introduced the 283 Chevy motor, soon to become the 327 and the trend continues today with lightweight V8 small block power that produces superb power to weight.

Here are some of the options from the 1970 Chris Craft "POWER" brochure, compliments of Robert DaPron.

Regards, Paul


    
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on May 16, 2012 5:12 PM


 
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AuthorReply
Paul
(no login)

Model 225 BVC ( 150-hp V6 outdrive )

February 22 2007, 4:55 PM 




Regards,

Paul


    
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Feb 22, 2007 7:16 PM


 
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Paul
(no login)

307 QLV

February 22 2007, 4:57 PM 





Regards,

Paul

 
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Paul
(no login)

307-Q

February 22 2007, 5:06 PM 





Regards,

Paul

 
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Al Langlois
(no login)

Misc 307Q Questions

November 30 2010, 2:37 PM 

Hey Paul,

I'd like to replace the alternator on this engine and I have an original part number from the engine manual but the manual suggests that there was either a Prestolite or Motorola unit installed. There are no markings on the current alternator to determine its make or model. The engine manual says that the voltage regulator and the alternator must match up. Any ideas here.

Also, I am looking into replacing the risers/heat exchangers and wondered if the parts from a 350Q are interchangeable as there is an engine here that I could grab those parts off of.

Also I recieved the hull card for my 22' Tournament Fisherman and it lists the propeller as a 3212. Is there a look up table for this as I get that it's 12 inch but not sure what the pitch is. I'd like to check this against the prop that came off the boat for future prop tuning.

Thanks,

Al

 
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Paul
(no login)

Re: Misc 307Q Questions

November 30 2010, 3:09 PM 

Hi Al,

First of all, the easy question is the 3212 prop, it's a 13 x 11 SC on a 1" shaft, RH rotation. The "SC" stands for "Super Cup".

Regarding the alternator, there must be some numbers somewhere. It does not have to say Motorola or Prestolite, all you need are the numbers. If you can find them, just do a Google for those numbers and I will bet you it puts a smile on your face. It will most likely pop up with a replacement alternator number, etc.

In addition, if you can find the numbers or brand name of the voltage regulator, it might lead you to the answer of what your alternator is. Also, it might be possible that the same voltage regulator will serve either alternator choice, unless the caution you noted was there because it would not.

To my knowledge, the 307Q is externally identical to the other Q motors so everything "SHOULD" be able to bolt up from one motor to another. Hope this helps! Let us know if you need any assistance, and hey, send photos of your project. Being a Roamer owner, there is really no need to be timid about the fact that you have come over to fiberglass.

You know my 427 powered 23' Lancer is going to be a lot faster boat than yours, with that little motor happy.gif

Regards, best,

Paul

 
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Al Langlois
(no login)

307Q

December 1 2010, 4:42 PM 

Yeah Yeah! I know you will blow my doors off but you'll have to bring the boat up here to prove it! (Huron Maybe?) Otherwise I still contend that I would take both the Electric Car race and the little boat race! Tim Toth is providing some hop up tips for the 307. (Really, do you have to put a 427 against a 307? I shouldn't even acknowledge the comment!)

I did find the lookup table for the prop here on the forum so thanks twice. I have looked this alternator over 100 times and there is nothing but the following markings "SAE J1171 Marine" I did type that into the search engine to really no avail. That is just a certification stamping. After careful comparing to other pics of alternators I believe it is a Motorola. I'll be checking the voltage regulator tonight. Also there is no shunt in this electrical system? Common?

Al

My father-in-law is just starting to teardown his '78 23 Lancer straightr inboard. He has the 350 in it though. You still win!

I don't keep my pics in the cloud so I'll get around to sending them to you someday. Otherwise the Roamer has its own Facebook page so you could check it out there. Find it under "Kimberly Ann" Lots of pics there of all boat projects.





 
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Paul
(Premier Login FEfinaticP)
Forum Owner

Delco single wire alternative ?

December 2 2010, 10:14 AM 

Okay everyone,

Al is the owner of KIMBERLY ANN, which won "Best Cruiser" at Bay Harbor, and got coverage in the last edition of the Chris Craft Antique Boat Club "BRASS BELL", which can be found at this link http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1290203921

Al has a pair of new BIG block GM motors in this aluminum Roamer, it is an exquisite installation, so he is really not acustomed to being around something as "small" as a 307, so we all must be sensitive to this "issue" (with emphasis on "small") happy.gif. If anyone from now on refers to the diminuitive 307, just don't call it SMALL.

Now that we have that settled......the big issue happy.gif is alternators and voltage regulators, and here are some great tips that might help! I am considering going this route, as my voltage regulator on the Sea Skiff is an antiquated device, and it does not like getting wet with that low flywheel aft installation.

The following from Wes Stinson............(from the archives....thanks Wes!)


"I had some suspicions for some time that the alternator was not functioning properly. I was not sure I had the voltage regulator hooked up properly after the engine went back in, so I asked around and got hooked back up. I was also not sure the alternator was working because the amp gauge never moved, however the gauge could have just been bad.

So long story short after a hour or so of tinkering, I determined my alternator was shot. I was just about ready to put the boat away when another guy who was doing some dredging work for our marina suggested just switching the alternator to a delco-remy alternator. He said the delco alternators are more reliable, have an internal voltage regulator, and are cheaper to overhaul if an issue arises. I was concerned about the mounting, but it turns out everything bolts right up! Best of all, we had an brand new one sitting on the shelf so I just had to install it rather than wait a week for a rebuild.

Instead of messing with voltage regulators and what not, I simply attached the one major lead from the battery to the back of the alternator, mounted it back on the engine, and voila everything works just as expected. My amp gauge, as it turns out, is not bad at all so who knows how long the alternator has been bad. My grandpa mentioned he was not sure he's ever seen the amp gauge move, so its possible its been like this for years, but since the boat doesnt get used a whole lot, the battery would stay charged enough to run.

Anyway, a definite upgrade for those of you who have alternator issues and dont want to hassle with the prestolite alternator."




The following from Rich Duane........(from the archives.....thanks Rich!)

"Delco alternators all mount the same.
They are rated by output ie: 81 amp,100 amp,etc.
They are single wire with built in regulators.
My recomendation is to put large enough units on to have enough output when operating at lower speeds."


Not for everyone, but maybe just the ticket for a boat, following link thanks to Bill Murray.
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/onewire-threewire.shtml


Regards,

Paul


 
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Al Langlois
(no login)

Alternator/Closed Cooling Conversion

December 6 2010, 2:34 PM 

The alternator on the engine now is a one wire job. Thus no shunt and no separate voltage regulator. I may just replace as opposed to going back the other way with a three wire.

The other question here is how involved (other than finding the necessary parts) is it to convert this raw water cooled engine to a closed cooling system using mostly original parts? Any major differences that would preclude this?

Al

And yes I am a big block guy Paul but this boat is for my 12yr old son. We'll put the super charger kit on it after he's had a few years smacking it into the dock! happy.gif

 
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Paul
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307 Closed Cooling Conversion

December 6 2010, 4:53 PM 

Hi Al,

I would think the closed cooling systems are readily available through recyclers for this very engine, but I am not sure I would do it unless the boat is going to salt water. However, that being a mute point in this discussion, we have had people like Mike Burdette (photo) convert his small block motors using Volvo Penta heat exchangers which function the same as the CC system.
[linked image]

On the CC system, however, beware that it may well call for a different thermostat between closed and standard cooling, and the pressure regulartor valves may be located differently. Not seeing your exact motor I would default to the diagrams for your model, showing the closed and standard systems. The PRV is basically to assure full water supply to the motor during slow speed motoring when the pump efficiency goes down, and then when the pump is running at wide open capacity it will bleed excess water (and pressure) out of the system and directly into the riser for exiting out the tailpipes. All said and done the conversion should be a pretty simple matter, and bigger is better when dealing with the heat exchangers.

Most of the 427 guys will claim their heat exchangers were not sized quite big enough as there have been many complaints of overheating. Most of the ones I have seen out lurking in marinas show signs of boiling over. Most of the ones at boat shows are better maintained. Not real sure just what the cause of the overheating is, whether it is a bad impeller, wrong thermostat, or maybe the cam inside the pump too, perhaps internal constriction, air getting into the system, whatever, but quite a few of the guys on the Great Lakes have converted to standard cooling. On the 427 for instance, the pump is the same but the tap into the pump is configured a little differently. Since I have 4 427 motors, two of each system, I know the differences well on those motors but do not know the small block systems.

For our use here in Tennessee for instance, I would consider it to be excess weight and complexity on the boat, don't need it here.

As an example, for the 427 with which I am most familiar, the operators manual indicates the desired temp range for the standard cooling (no antifreeze or heat exchangers) is 130 to 150 degrees, which is mighty cool by motor standards. This would seem too cool for proper combustion, etc., but the motor is set up to run that way. The compression, carb, plugs, etc., are all selected for good running and longevity under this condition, strange as it may seem. The Closed Cooling System is design to run from 163 to 180 degrees, which still is mighty cool by automotive standards, but the motor isn't in an auto!

Here are the standard and closed systems for the 427 as an example
[linked image]
[linked image]

Here is the closed system on a 327F small block.
[linked image]

Early 283 flow diagram
[linked image]

Here is the Q series diagram, and this is probably closest to your system, which I am guessing is a Marine Power installation, essentially rebranded Chris Craft.
[linked image]
[linked image]

Probably the best way to get the system parts and fittings right, would be to find the exact motor you have in the boat now, being recycled on ebay or somewhere close, and just buy the ancillary equipment. I see that stuff for sale all the time but the tough part is every motor has it's own idiocyncracies. It's not rocket science and I am sure as in the case of Mike Burdette, photo on top of this post, custom mods can be made to work just fine.

Hope this helps.

Regards, best,

Paul














 
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Paul
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350-Q 235-hp

February 22 2007, 5:11 PM 





Regards,

Paul


(Note, upon close examination of the original document, the valve cover said "327Q and 235-hp". The 350 is listed as the same power rating.

In addition, although the 327 was a great motor in its own right, it's basically a larger 283. The 350 is also a larger 283, but it's the first of the 4-bolt main small blocks!

 
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Paul
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327Q and 350Q Owners Manual ( Complete )

June 5 2007, 6:57 AM 


 
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Paul
(no login)

Re: 327Q and 350Q Parts Manual ( Complete )

June 5 2007, 6:59 AM 

A big thanks to Mark Weller and Bill Murray, for putting this together and sharing it.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1180547877

Regards, Paul

 
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Paul
(no login)

350 QL Closed Cooling System Photo Documentation

April 18 2012, 12:36 PM 

[linked image]

[linked image]

regards,

Paul

 
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Paul
(no login)

350-QA 235-hp V-drive

February 22 2007, 5:12 PM 





Regards,

Paul

 
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Paul
(no login)

350F and 350FLV

September 1 2009, 10:09 PM 

We just got a great question from Pedro, from Portugal about the 350 series, and I'm adding some photos of the 350FLV, which I understand was a high performance motor offered in the XK 19 and 22-foot series, perhaps others. I believe it had 300-hp.

[linked image]

[linked image]

Anyone having more info about this particular motor, please post here on this thread!

thanks,

Paul





 
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Paul
(no login)

427 300-hp (big dogs)

February 22 2007, 5:14 PM 

427.jpg427a.jpg



57dfdb4d.jpg

303753c8.jpg

[linked image]

(Below): What all 427 motors should look like, the immaculately maintained power in Tim Toth's 35' Commander. Looks like a museum piece, eh? Beautiful !! happy.gif
569a6f55.jpg

Here is the very first notification of the new 427 motor by Chris Craft, in December of 1965.
Commanders got the 427 for the 1966 model year.

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

[linked image]

Here is Keith Ferrio's beautiful rebuild, from his 1967 31' Sports Express
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]
[linked image]



Regards,

Paul





    
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jun 2, 2010 6:39 PM


 
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Alex
(no login)

Fantastic site!!!

December 27 2008, 1:56 PM 

Need feedback on MOST number of engine hours seen for one of these big motors whithout rebuild??

Any one?

 
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Paul
(no login)

Max hours on a 427

December 27 2008, 4:51 PM 

See response here at the following link. I would think one would go 3500 if properly cared for and properly run.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1230411850

Paul

 
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Paul
(no login)

427 ( dimension diagrams )

February 22 2007, 5:15 PM 





Regards,

Paul

 
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