Hello Forum,

I am looking at a 1967 Commander Sedan, 38' model, in need of work. It has been repowered recently and should be mechanically suitable according to the seller and the mechanics I have been working with. I think everyone is telling me the truth. My concerns are about the cosmetics, as this boat sat out in a yard for quite a few years before the restoration was started, and now the boat is for sale part way done. I ahve access to all the tickets done by the yard, and they will stand behind their work.

My intent is to get the boat on the water under it's own power, and then move it to a location whre I can do much of the work myself.

The yard referenced me to this forum and I have been looking at all the information here, and I would not have even considered this project wihout seeing some of the work done here. It is an inspitation.

The yard will do the buffing of the hull but I would like any tips on what to use and how to do it. The wood around the sides of the boat is in poor condition but could be brought back as it's all there, just peeling. The interior woodwork has been varnished several times and looks pretty poor and I am considering having it replaced with an overlay or a wood veneer with cloth backing.

All of this is in a state of flux at the moment until I get enough assurance this is something I want to jump into. My options include another Chris Craft (Catalina 380) and a Carver, both in better condition but much higher cost.

Should I jump or run?

Thank you,

Roger Silvas

Hi Roger

I don't think anyone here would say Carver or Catalina over Commander. The Commander is in a class of it's own. The styling is classic, the build is beautiful and they have a huge loyal following as witnessed here on the CCCF.

However, read through the info available on the "yacht survey" site, there is lots of good advice there on buying any used boat.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatbuying.htm

You can have oil samples from the engines and transmissions analyzed for water, high levels of metals, suggesting wear etc. Have the engines compression tested, check oil pressure with gauges directly attached to the engine, check the engine temps all over with a hand held temperature gun available cheap from any auto shop, check that all the cooling is at correct temps. People sometimes remove the thermostat so the engine doesn't run hot, cheap "fool-them" fix.

Have a good surveyor go through the boat with a fine tooth comb, then do it yourself afterwards, with his report in hand and a darning needle, to check for any dry rot that might have resulted from leaks over the years, in particular, the bulkheads and window areas. Some surveys I have seen read more like sales brochures "warm mahogany interior" and list the number of cabins etc. all "knows" as far as I am concerned, what I want him to tell me is what is needed and what is likely to be required. Pull out every drawer, check the tabbing where the interior is glassed to the hull, use a mirror, a digital camera standing on your head if you have to!

The reason I am saying to do your own close inspection before you buy a boat, even with the best survey, is I once had the best guy survey a wood sailboat and he missed or "overlooked" eight rotten planks and it took a year in court and $15K to recoup part of my losses. If I had a closer look in the day, I would have found what he missed. Don't ask the seller or broker for a surveyor, there are seller's surveyors, and buyer's surveyors, I'd look for one through my insurance company, ask who they use, they often have a list of "approved" surveyors/engineers.

Research again after you have your survey and estimate what cost will be involved to get this boat "right", add it all up and decide can you find one that lots of the problems of old age have been taken care of? Has someone done it all and in this market is willing to let it go for far less then what they have invested? Or is this gal worth every penny being asked and with your investment of time and effort be a beauty for years to come?


Good Luck with finding the right boat!

Norm

Norm has some very sound comments, as usual. A restoration like this is an exciting prospect if you are of an age and wherewithall to deal with the time, cost and logistics.

If you are at the point in your life where you are willing to roll the dice and take a chance, then a project like this may be just what the doctor ordered.

For instance, about 15 years ago, I had a wood 35' Chris Craft Sea Skiff that I loved, but I knew at the time I was going to sell it because the maintenance on the hull was consuming more time than I wanted to be lying on my back scraping paint and fastening screws. Janet and I found our 38' Commander in Cincinnatti on the Ohio River, and at the time, I didn't get a mechanical review or did I care at the time. I was prepared to buy the boat and repower it if I had to, rather than wring my hands wondering about the mechanicals. As fate would have it, the motors did run and they continue to run well. Had they not run I would have found a way to either make them run or repower, and I am sure I would still have had at least 14 years of running time.


Most people are more careful but at the time I wanted a Commander and fully intended on buying the one that was available at the time. Perhaps not the smartest thing, but like I said, if you are of an age, wherewithall and can handle the logistics, this makes a difference in whetheer or not you should take on a project. They always cost more than you budget.

If you are limited to cosmetics and the yard will stand behind the mechanicals, that's good. However, one wonders how far they'll go if there are problems, they'll probably tell you they will assure the motors will run, and then it's up to you. Still, there are risks in life and everyone with an old boat takes them in kind.

I won't ask what the price is, but I paid too much for all of my boats, $25,000 for our 38 Express, and it needed a lot of careful interior work and mechanical ancillary attention.

On the interior, check out our refinishing section, there is a chance you do not have to destroy the interior, as it may look crappy now but could be restored nicely. There are numerous examples of this being done.

Here is the interior refinishing link
http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/message/1131059156



My interior, shown above, was varnished and very poorly at that. I was able to sand down the outer layer of varnish with a flat wood block, and do a little touch up, with many coats of interior wipe on poly furniture finish, and you can see the results here.


I know you said you had a Sedan in mind, but look at my Express below and you can see what a few new pieces of carefully selected mahogany plywood will do at the helm, those side pieces are new, and the frontal pieces around the helm are original, all carefully stained the same.
This sort of work takes a lot more time than it does cash.


There are several Commander projects showcased here in the MASTER INDEX restoration section that show boats taken all the way down to the fiberglass on the interior and exterior. It sounds like yours is ahead of the curve, but it may be for someone else. Therefore be sure to look further at the examples here, assess whether or not you have the time and cash, and whether or not you want to be spending time at the marina doing this sort of thing. It's in my blood, so I enjoyed just about every minute of it, but I can not recommend it to a friend or a stranger without due cautions and reality checking.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Paul

Projects / restorations almost always have surprises, mostly not good. You realy need to know your limits moneywise and what your skills are. If you have cash and little ability; the costs can "crush" you. A survey is a must so you know what you working with. Commanders are know for there solid foundations to build from, but they all have some years on them now. If your choice has a no hull or powertrain issues costs should not be too bad. A proper survey is where you have to start. Car and truck - no worries .. just park it...unfortuneately gravity is less forgiving with boats and aircraft. Figure the costs to make necessary correctios needed (project boat) add atleast 25% and with luck it all works out. Sometimes you find a much better boat for a little bit more; that will require far less than a inexpensive project to get to the same state. You are unlikely to recover what ave spent on a failed project ...it's still a project! Good luck but think it through.