We extend to you a cordial "WELCOME ABOARD !" Come on in, make yourself at home, we are a friendly group of enthusiasts, and we also appreciate the classic Chris Craft Roamer, Corsair, and Lancer boats too , as they are all on the same family tree and share much in common !
Click on the image above to get a better look at this boat!!
Paul and All:
Today, I recovered the interior panels for the cuddy cabin. Also began work on replacing the exterior panels to the cuddy cabin that lie under the forward bulkhead. More to come on that later. Here's some photos of today's work.
Here is this evening's efforts regarding the exterior panels to the cuddy cabin. That is African Ribbon Mahogany ply. It is beautifully grained. I will be making a matching glove box and instrument panel out of the same stuff.
Note. I used my new Chrismas present, the dremel saw on this and really liked it. Much less dust, no chipping of the edge of the panel and beautiful, controlled cuts. I always use a fence to cut a straight line with electric hand saws. Too much torque to control makes for a crooked line without the fence.
Here is the lay up:
Now the set up for cutting:
and the finished cut out panel.
Next, I will start the epoxy and varnish process to seal all the panel.
This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Aug 1, 2012 5:52 PM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jun 13, 2012 3:36 PM This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jun 8, 2012 4:00 PM
The workmanship we see here on The Forum is raising the bar for the Commander and Lancer community for sure. One project after another, breeds motivation and sets a standard that is higher and higher and it is great for the boats and a heck of a lot of fun.
My only problem, I am behind the curve and chasing after one new standard after another. Ha!
I think this might have all started when we got a glimpse of Eric Jensen's white bilge?
Sheesh! Please don't ANYONE ever show that photo to Janet, I'll be doomed.
Paul and All:
Here's the latest photos from today's work. I had to cut the dash out three times before I got it right. I am getting where I can't visiualize spacially anymore for some reason. I think I have...what's that word or disease.... Starts with an A...
First, the mess ups:
The one on the left has the grain running the wrong way, the middle one has the helm hole drilled from the wrong side and the one on the right has everything in the right place, except that the dashboard is upside down.
Here is the start and the finish.
I'm looking forward to putting stuff back together!
Paul and All:
The hull liner almost got the best of me. I could not get it off. Then I found a cheap tool bit for a sawsall at Lowe's. My neighbor helped me by pulling the carpet back and I did the scraping. All off in less than 6 minutes! The new hull liner has arrived and is set to get installed next. Here is a photo of the scraper.
Paul and All:
Here are a few more photos of the latest on Swift, the 23 Lancer. "Stuff" is going back into her after getting replaced or rennovated. The latest are the bulkheads, in and outside the cuddy, shelving completed, carpeted, and in place, the deck pieces painted, but not attached yet, with Tuff Coat for the pedstal chairs to sit on, the hull and deck compounded and cleaned (it looks like there is still potential for the gel coat), and the boot stripe sanded in preperation for a new redo in Maroon! And last is one of my favorite looks about the Lancer, the sweep of the fore deck.
Progress is weather restricted right now, but I am ready to reinsert the gas tank, add a few electricals and put the strut in place when it comes.
Good morning Jerry, I just got a chance to look at your photos on something bigger than a telephone screen, and I am wondering about your kick panels. Whatever it is, it looks durable and friendly. Is it a carpet treatment or something else, just curious. It looks like it will be long lived and scuff resistant.
This is fabulous, man that boat is looking so good. I am soooo envious.
Keep up the good work, you are obviously having much more fun than I am, ha! I continue to believe the 23 Commander and 23 Lancer will continue to hold their value, and in fact, increase in value as soon as your boat hits the water it might even start some sort of a cult following. You might want to contact some of the Roamer guys to come to the splash point and do the Lancer version of the "Roamer Dance"
Paul, Mike and All:
I used Interlux Micron Extra with the Biolux additive, number 5696, Dark Blue. In reality, it is darker blue than it turns out on the computer image and is the same hue and depth as the Petit Burgendy stripe. It took about a half gallon to cover the bottom.
Jerry, we know you are a "cup-is-half-full" kind of guy. However, either you are a real optimist with that 70-mph speedometer or I'm in trouble (or both!)
Nice work by the way, I can't wait until you are getting compliments for your toils. Working on boats is a lot of fun as we all know here, but there comes a time when enough of the work is done to put er on the water and soak up some running time (and compliments from appreciative onlookers).
I'll be dusting off the turbochargers this evening.
Even though I don't own a Lancer (I have a '68 Corsair Sea V inboard), I'm intriged -- and intimidated, I might add -- by your incredible progress and workmanship. You've inspired and, I think, depressed others by this wonderful unfolding masterpiece. Congrats! I'll now have to work even harder.
PS By any chance is that a 1949 Chevy Deluxe lurking behind stuff in your garage?
Paul, Cliff, and All:
Yes, Cliff, it is. It belonged to my great uncle and has been passed to me. I don't know what to do with it. It is all original, no rust, and has been kept in a barn for it 63 years. Still has the fender skirts in the trunk along with the spare. I just put new whitewalls on it so I could move it around. Know anyone interested in it?
Paul, Glenn and All:
Glenn, I only had so much room on the dash and in after thought, I could have done it differently. I should have moved the switch panel somewhere else. Problem is where to put it so that it is handy but out of the way, and without cutting more holes in the boat. That would have given me room for so more gauges. I like the way Paul mounted things on a panel below the dash, but I just did not have the room getting in and out of the seat.
This strategy though, in my mind, leads to other issues. Where does one stop with all the gauges? My mechanic wants to add sensors to the engine, I would like a fuel rate of flow, GPS, etc. and so forth. I decided to go with just the basics that mostly came on the original dash. I did not go with the RPM gauge because it is easy to fall into the trap of cruising by RPM rather than by water and weather conditions. Here in the Bay, things are always changing. I like to tune the boat to the conditions so as to have the most enjoyable ride for my passsengers. I am not really building a race boat, (although I may take it to Old Hichory Lake once and whip Paul's boat!) I am just trying to take advantage of all the Lancer's potential as a runabout. I have found that I seldom push an engine to its furtherest ability, so to me, the RPM's are not comparatively important to some other guages.
I often take out people that don't know a lot about the water and boats, and their question is always: "How fast are we going?" so the MPH (estimated across the water) is there to quickly answer their curiosity in a vocabulary they can understand.
To me, the RPMs are very important. Equally, though, is the fuel rate of flow. I like it more because I can get a general "feel" for how much fuel I am using on a given course from point A to point B. And because I am often in changing tides, currents, winds, etc. here in the Bay, and because I have a speedometer, I can quickly see the difference in fuel use and tune for that. (Along with keeping an eye on the tank guage.) In economic or terms of efficency, I am trying to use a set of guages to minimize fuel consumption. I also use the hull planes to tune for this. This particular set of gauges helps me tune quickly. (Thank you mr. energy czar for more than doubling the price of gas.)
Paul and All:
After a heck of a time it seems, I finished up the strut for Swift. Is it right? I think so because after I had everything bolted down in position, and from inside the boat, I slid the prop shaft down until it hit the strut, felt for its dimensions, and then centered it and it slid right in place with a little pushing. Good feeling, alright. Here are some photos. Now I am working on the slotted main hatch and will follow up with a few more photos.
Here is where we started:
Back to work and getting the wiring all hung and ready for to connect to the new dash.
Here is the before of the main hatch:
And here is the gas tank installed and ready for $5.00 fuel!
Everything looks exceptionally well done, but I did notice a fingerprint on the fuel tank, and the use of white sealant at the strut doesn't look very "yachting" but hey, one must make sacrifices along the way and I understand perfectly.
Regards, keep up the good work, have fun along the way too,
Paul and All:
I leave the excess on untill the stuff dries so that I can see wheather or not I got a complete seal. Then I trim the excess. squeezed out,4200 off with an exacto knife. Otherwise, you chance getting a lot of smear marks and dropped product if you try to clean it up just after putting it on. Also it take acetone to clean the stuff off, and if you try to clean off the excess, you are leaving some acetone on the product that's left, which degrades the quality somewhat, at least in my mind. Its all neat and tidy now.
Paul and All:
Started and finished the dreaded wiring of Swift this weekend after a trip out to the Summer Palace. Summer Palace needed new batteries and its time for me to start the interior work on her. Meanwhile I put on a new horn, antenna, and strung all the wires for swift. Next comes the hatch set up and then she can go for her new powerplant.
Some photos from today.
Here is the new horn and antenna.
And here is the wiring going in to the stern of the Swift.
Paul and All:
Yes. Bennet tabs that came on the boat. With the kind of power she will have, and the weight, tabs will put her on plane much faster. Raw power will do it, but every little bit helps. I may get dissagreement here, having said that, but I would use the case of an outboard as an illustration. My old 70 hp Evenrude was not adjustable and I had to set its tilt according to what I planned to do during the outing. Trolling vs traveling, for instance, required two different tilts. My 90 hp. Johnson with its electric tilt let me change all that and this is what I am hoping for on the Swift. Fast times on a plane between anchorages with slow drifting while gunkholing. I think it takes something like tabs to get the best of both worlds.
Paul and All:
Finished the entire hatch today and it looks good. I am now finished with all the major work prior to setting the engine in. I will start that next week. I will take time to clean Swift up, touch up the bottom paint, put her name on, etc. while working on the motor at the mechanics shop.
I can almost hear that big piece of iron start to cough...
Paul and All:
Thanks. The seats were cast offs given during a trade deal that involved a motor and a boat and a trip to OH for a bridge with a forum member who does remarkable work in a short period of time on multiple boats... This genltleman is also magnanamous! I had to do a little repair to them, but did not recover them. I could if needed. I enjoy that kind of thing. I have a couple of other chairs that may need recovering. I just have too much stuff.
Yes, the wood is oiled teak and the panels are mohogany, epoxied and varnished several times with UV protecting inhibitors. Let's hope it works, I don't want to be varnishing all the time. I don't mind a few minutes of putting a little oil on though! It seems a reasonable task that brings great results, and there is always time to do it while waiting in line at the ramp.
Paul and All:
Thanks to Paul's sleuthing and posting the info about stainless steel cleats for our Lancers, Swift's new cleats arrived today just before the afternoon thunderstorm pattern. They are remarkably well made and I will post another showing the before and after cleats later in the day. Here are the new ones:
Hey Jerry, glad you were able to follow that tip !!
June 1 2012, 3:07 PM
I also thought the cleats were a fabulous deal, good price and great quality, and far below what it would have cost to repair the old ones. Furthermore, they are an IDENTICAL duplicate to the originals
Paul and All:
Spent the day breaking things around the engine, namely twisting off bolts and completely destroying a Sherwood pump trying to get the bearing out. Amazing what an air driven press is capable of doing to bronze. None the less, here is where I started this morning and I added a bunch of stuff throughout the day. It should start coming together even more next week. I am getting antsy about getting it put in the boat. We are still waiting on some parts such as the MSD electonic distributor, and hot rod marine wires. All in due time. Also I have to say I love that Don Hancock Blue color with the aluminum covers! Thanks, Don.
The bow ties have been pretty successful on the NASCAR circuit "lately". A Chevrolet team owner (Rick Hendrick) logged his 200th win this season. I know some like to reminisce of the glory days for the blue oval, but that was back when you dreamed of color TV's and the phone was on the wall. STIR,STIR,STIR...(translation for world readership: "Stirring the pot". Generating excitement) for the rivalry between "Dr.Jerry" and "Kid Paul" and the long fought battle of Ford vs. Chevy . Let the games begin.
I recently bought a 19 Olympic Cuddy Cabin that was completely stripped on the inside but has a hull in really good shape, and I have been following the beautiful work that you have done. (Showing these pictures to my wife has given her some hope that this will work out all right. I had a couple of question regarding the bulkheads...
I am assuming that you used ¾ ply?
And after cutting you coated them with an epoxy? (Several layers I am assuming).
Is there a specific kind of epoxy to use? I have never worked with epoxy but I am assuming its like working with varnish?
Paul, Matt, and All:
Matt, thanks for your post! In the Lancer, there are two bulkheads on each port and starboard side, and they are interior and exterior. For the bulkheads on the interior of the cuddy, I used 1/2 ply, 1/4 foam padding, and then vinyl upholstry material. These bulkheads perform no other purpose other than privacy. The original patterns were not fitted too well to the inside of cabin, having about an inch of space between the top of the bulkhead and the bottom of the foredeck. They are screwed to the deck, the entry way hatch and through to boards attached on the back of the exterior bulkheads. Certainly, you could make these out of a nice panel of mohogany, but the cuddy is rather small and not much time would normally be spent there. Also, there is very little light unless the overhead hatch is open. I just went with the original idea I found in the boat.
There is about an inch gap between these bulkhead panels and the exterior panels. These exterior panels do perform some support function between the deck and the foredeck. They are tied to the entry hatchway, and to the deck. Mine were not tied to the fore deck or the hull. Just these two edges of the panels were attached to the boat.
For the exterior bulkheads, I used 1/2 inch mahogany veneer panels that were not exterior grade. Therefore I coaed the entire panel, front, back and edges, with several coats of epoxy to seal them from the elements. I put on at least 6 coats of varnish, with UV inhibitors in the varnish, to protect the epoxy from the sun. Ultraviolet rays from the sun will cause epoxy to bubble and peel off of wood.
Note that I used epoxy and not fiberglass resin. Fiberglass resin will not stick to wood over the long term. Epoxy will. Also note, you can repair epoxy with fiberglass resin but you cannot repair fiberglass resin with epoxy. You must use fiberglass resin. Epoxy usually is softer and more flexible than fiberglass resin and thus it is harder to sand because the dust heats up fast and clogs and sticks to the sandpaper. Depending on the brand you get, it may not cure clear and may be of a yellowish color. Fiberglass resin sands easily and produces a paintable surface with little effort. It dries clear.
Epoxy and fiberglass resins are both two part products. That is, you must mix a hardner with the product to make it cure. There is a whole learning curve associated with these two products, but it is an easy curve to learn, so start reading on the internet. Both epoxy and fiberglass resin use different hardners, you cannot mix them up, so you have an epoxy resin and an epoxy hardner, and you have a fiberglass resin and a fiberglass hardner. Fiberglass resin and hardner are much cheaper and can be purchased at lumber yards and car parts stores. Get the marine variety, not the bondo.
You mix small batches, about a pint or so for a couple of minutes, then spread it on with a brush or plastic spatula. Some brands of epoxy call for equal parts of hardner and epoxy resin and others call for 2 to 1, just read and follow as precicely as possible. The cheap foam brushes melt. The cheap bristle brushes are better, but tend to lose their individual hairs so you must pick them out. Both epoxy and resin with smooth out and produce a mirror finish. However, a wax byproduct of the chemical reaction is produced and must be washed off prior to sanding and varnishing. Try the stuff out and learn how to use it before you put it on an $80 piece of panel!
After applying 2 to 3 coats of epoxy, you must sand the panels smooth, going to a 320 grit for the final sanding. This will cause the epoxy to turn translucent or milky-white looking. Don't worry, the varnish will restore your panel to the deep finish you saw in the earlier posts and pictures.
There are all sorts of add-ins you can mix with epoxy and resin. There are color additives, thickening agents and powdered sawdust or styrofoam, curing retarders and curing speeder uppers as well as many others products for each different need. The West System from West Marine is a good place to start, but pricy. For a mirror like surface, you can find a product called Bar Top epoxy. It flows like thick molassas, so your work must be flat and perfectly level. To guard against drips, you can apply tape to the edges of the wood to hold the epoxy in place as it dries. This usually takes 2 days before it is hard enough to sand, although it dries to the touch in 8 to 12 hours. Both products behave differently as temperature varies, the hotter it is, the faster it cures and vice versa.
There are also different kinds of fiberglass resins among them, polyurathane, and polyester. There are different polyesters as well. Epoxy and resin will not permanantly stick to plastic or metal. You can protect areas or wood that you do not want to stick to the epoxy or resin with saran wrap. Once epoxy gets on wood, it is forever, and resin, while not as tenacious is not much different. The wood will seperate before the product comes off the wood. Either product, once stuck to metal can be burned off with a bunson burner, or hammered off. Plastic spreaders are easily bent and the product simply seperates from the plastic. This is also true of the the plastic mixing cups and tools.
Jump in and give it a try! It is amazingly easy once you get a feel for it and you can easily repair your boat hull, make new parts, etc.
Hope this helps. Call me if you want to discuss more questions.
Thank you for such a great response. That really answered a lot of my questions. I want to comb through your response over the weekend when I am not at work, because I have some followup questions and perhaps a request for some advice, but I wanted to waiti till the weekend when I actually have time to give you a proper response.
Again, thank you for such a thoughtful and well informed response. I really appreciate it.
There sure is a big difference between someone sitting on the couch sipping a cold drink pontificating about how much they know about everything, and a guy who actually gets his hands dirty and does the work himself. When you get a tip from Jerry, it is always going to be field tested and approved by the best.
Paul and All:
Here are some photos of my progress with the bench seat across the transome of Swift. Thanks to Mike and the others for all the great discussion and brochure information that came first. I will finish up tomorrow and then set them in the boat next week with photos of that.
Here's how the foam comes... and a look at the seat. The holes are to let air escape and come back in when a heavy weight like Dave Krugler sits down. The holes will be covered with wire mesh to keep the dang wasps and bugs out.
seat and back on the stock piece of foam. I use an electric carving knife to cut the foam.
First, join the colored material,
Then sew on the sides,
Yep, that's me hard at work. You can't see my other hand because I accidently sewed it to my pants just seconds before.
Here's my machine, a Sailrite. It has more than paid for itself.
Here's the cushion before getting all straighten out and stapled to the backing board:
I do find upholstry work as much fun as carpentry. Cut twice, measure once, go get another piece of fabric and try it again.
Hey..........that industrial grade sewing machine is Chris Craft blue (post war)
June 21 2012, 11:10 AM
Nice work Jerry, impressive.
I must say, this is the most creative use I've heard of with an electric carving knife!
Hey I like the way you spliced in additional material, even though it wasn't the same color as the rest of the seat.
Paul and All:
Here is the latest from VA inre Swift.
Don't get too excited! The engine slid back on the way home. I will have to get a lower trailer hitch on the Jimmy. Now the extra hard part of adding the water cooling system to the boat and engine begins. I think this will take me some time and will be lucky to hear her run before the end of the season. BUT I am almost there.
Thats looking mighty fine. I would love to be there to see the look on your face when that big dog starts barking. Women and children should be off the streets at the time, all pets should be on a leash, a look-out should be posted for the authorities, because fun like that must have something about it that is illegal or socially inappropriate in some way.
Looks like you are in for the Jensen Fitness Plan, hoisting iron around. Time for exhaust logs and risers. The shakedown and running-in on something like this can take awhile so take it slow and easy. Check all those hoses and clamps, have a pyrometer handy to check temperatures port and starboard, I'd fire it up and run it at about 1000 to 1200 rpm for a few minutes just to polish everything in after sitting around for so long, there may be a little rust on a valve stem, etc. In addition, it may not be a bad idea to even squirt in a little "run-in" additive for this event and during the first oil change.
They don't like people using synthetic oil on new rebuilds, but I think yours are takeouts that have already been run-in so it would not matter. This stuff just gives a bit more protection, especially camshafts where you have a real metal-to-metal contact.
I trust your shaft alignment and motor mount activity is as big a challenge as mine is. So far i think everything will fit reasonably well. Your fit looks great, right on the proper stringer locations, etc. Glenn added a layer of hardwood under his mounts in order to attain the proper height and clearance, and I may be doing the same but won't really know until the motor is dangling from the hoist.
keep us posted,
PS: Hey by the way they tell me my package I sent you may be arriving on Tuesday.
Better get it first before the neighbors do, lol.
Paul, Glenn and All:
Yes, the motor mounts are the next thing I need to address. Still have to finish my in-boat motor lift. That and placing the water intake will set me up for the next step, the risers and exhaust.