Trim Tabs on our 1974 23' Lancer and moreMay 10 2012 at 7:41 PM
|Glenn F (no login)|
Paul and all,
I sort of screwed up ym pictures. I have been orginizing my pictures on photobucket and forgot about moving them and losing there path. OOPs
Here is the link and the first picture is the tabs I just added. The rest of the pictures are all mixed up, but you can sort of piece them together.
|May 10 2012, 9:54 PM |
Glenn, your work is very impressive. The tabs looks great as does the rest of the boat. I also liked the idea of filling in the prop pocket and adding another drain. I added another drain on mine in the transon so it helps , but i still have some water that accumulates. Phenominal work !!!!!!
Will do it different next time
|May 11 2012, 9:37 AM |
It does make for a nicer bilge and lower transom area, solid.
AlthoughtitI did create a a new low spot under the motor, but the bilge pump takes care of it.
Glade you like it.
Lancer Swim Platform
|June 10 2012, 11:03 AM |
Paul and all,
Paul, I know you're not a big swim platform fan on the Lancers, but they are practial in some cases. Here is what I did.
Stainless Steel brackets, power coated in white.
We are getting her wet for the first time this season today.
Enjoy your nice work this summer!
|June 10 2012, 12:02 PM |
Thanks for sharing all the photos. The bilge and the dash are pieces of art.
I will use your pics as inspiration when it's time for me to attack those parts of the boat.
Enjoy your first day on the water.
|June 10 2012, 3:21 PM |
Hey nice job, good workmanship, clean, not too big, functional, very handy getting in and out of the boat.
Good day on the water
|June 10 2012, 9:45 PM |
Thanks for the kind words guys.
Now with the 80# windsheild drag and the 100# of hardware I hung on the stern I might need more horsepower, or at least thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Maybe some day, right now the 360 CM is holding it's own. The new trim tabs worked great.
Here is a picture of the braces and tabs, and yes the swim platform is shading the cool exaust
I also did a quick refinish of the stern deck, it was beat up with all kinds of old hardware holes. I only went up to mid cleats, did put new cleats on the stern.
I spray painted it using all Interlux Brightside products, learned a few things.
I need to trim and finish a little more.
The entire deck and haul needs to be done someday.
Had a great day on the water, I hope other enjoyed their waters as well.
|June 11 2012, 9:53 AM |
You guys with the completed Lancer projects are really making me look bad, but at least I got aboard TRADITION Friday afternoon, all is well, ran a short run to be sure all the fluids were circulated properly, etc. I will be popping a pair of Edelbrock #1409s on the boat sometime in the near future, I'm sort of tired of the old Carters at this point, think I'll give it a try. After all part of the soothing of the symptoms of boatitis is to spend money on the boat you already have, right? No problem there, I have too many boats now (and too many cars). Anyone want to buy a 1984 944 Porsche, bran new clutch?
(Lady driven only on Sundays........at Detroit Dragway......ha......actually runs great).
|June 11 2012, 10:10 AM |
Look great Glenn.
Nice to see another gray Lancer in the fleet. I splashed late in the day yesterday for the first time and knock on wood had no issues. For what it is worth I took some speed readings in a strech of protected area and came up with the following. 2 good size guys on board and 1/3 tank of fuel. about 400 hours on a rebuild with a 15 x 16 supercup nibral prop. No tabs.
2800 rpm 19.5 mph
3000 / 23 mph
4150 / 33.5 mph
Faster than my old 73 cruising and in the corner. This boat has a 250 HP G motor versus the 235 Q. Curious what you get with that 360 Chrysler.
23' 427 Commander speed comparison, and 350G commentary
|June 11 2012, 11:15 AM |
Here is an interesting comparison, the 23 Commander has much more torque (438 footpounds at 2900 rpm) and 50 more horses so it is an unfair comparison from the start, but the 23 Commander is somewhat hampered (not much, but a little) by the steeper shaft angle of the V-drive. I would not put too much stock in the latter, but it does make a difference. In addition the 23 Commander has no prop pocket, it is deep V all the way with the prop hanging waaaay down there, using what I believe is a direct drive system too and what I believe is a 13" prop spinning much faster than your 15x16 cupped nibral.
So we can assume Chris Craft was possibly bragging a bit on the speed, maybe this is really a 40 mph boat? If that is the case you are (only) 7 miles per hour from what CC got out of a 427 installation.
In any case, the speed numbers you have provided are some great data. The stock 350Q that all these boats came with initially was rated at 235 horsepower and a limit of 4200 rpm. The G motor is rated at 250 horsepower at 4400 rpm, but I have no info on torque or compression ratio so it is tough to compare the two. The 15 horse difference in the two will not make much difference, as it takes considerably more than that to show improved speed numbers on a boat, and it is even more difficult when you get into a deep v with this much hull in the water.
The 23 hull is not necessarily a speed hull in the first place. The deep v design has a lot of wetted area and friction in the water, but the lifting strakes help get the hull out of the water the faster it goes. Nevertheless this boat is never going to be as fast as something with a flat hull profile at the transom. However, these boats BECOME the faster boat as the water turns from dead flat to a light chop, and then when it turns to more than a light chop they are the only ones out there. My 17' Sportsman (1956, 327/300) is a perfect example, it is very fast on flat water but once the swells start to build or heaven forbid, a chop, it becomes pointless and potentially damaging to the hull to press on. In that water my 95 horse Hercules powered 1957 17 Sportsman is just as fast as the 327/300, because the hull profile is the limiting factor.
For my own use here in Tennessee, we do encounter water on Old Hickory Lake that will allow the Lancer Hull to shine. On the Cumberland River where I run my Skiff and TRADITION mostly, the water is almost always dead level flat. I have been out on the big lake many times when it was not wise to run full power due to the hull pounding, the skiff takes the water nicely but it is NO Lancer. I've been aboard a 23 in the past where we approached a significant swell and I put my hand on something to brace myself from the usual pounding I would expect, but it never happened
|This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jun 12, 2012 10:40 AM|
Re: 23' 427 Commander speed comparison, and 350G commentary
|June 11 2012, 4:26 PM |
Interesting stuff Paul. As you can imagine we have very little "flat" water here with a light chop typical. I pounded through some good wake yesterday and was reminded how dry and well behaved this hull really is at any reasonable speed. Not quite like my old 30 Hunt that needed a significant chop to even move things around, but the Lancer performs better than most recent edition 28 footers out there. They really are a great hull design.
Quite a testament from a former 30-foot Hunt-designed Commander
|June 11 2012, 6:56 PM |
Any former owner of a 30' Sportsman will know just about the best of the best, so your comments are very well respected (and appreciated).
The archives are loaded with photos of this model speeding across the chop, here is one such image.
What does get fun is when you are on the water in a craft that is capable of running in the chop, as the 30' Hunt most certainly is, and someone is trying to either keep up or overtake you. If you are in a craft that is uber-capable of handling the chop like the 23 Lancer or Hunt 30, you can just give it a tad more speed and watch the other boat pound the living daylights out of the occupants trying to match the speed, ha. I had one such encounter with the USCG actually, they were in some sort of a patrol RIB design, pretty fast with a big outboard and all, but man that thing was leaping out of the water and pounding the crap out of everyone and they were hell-bent on passing us one day while we were aboard our Sea Skiff. The Sea Skiff has about a 16 degree deadrise and the 23 Lancer has a 23 or 24, so you can see right there how serious the Lancer hull is. I was running pretty comfortably well below full speed, many other boats would have had some pounding going on, and these guys in the RIB were out to prove a point. Had I been in a 23 Lancer it sure would have been fun to pour the coals to it and watch, ha.
|June 12 2012, 9:12 AM |
Matt and all,
I have not done any calculations I keep forgetting my GPS. ....... I just wrote myself a note.
The hullside are Steel Grey according to the spec sheet I got for M.M. It was built with a blue anti-fouling bottom and with the white boot strip.
The 360 CM runs good, althought I'd rather have a GM motor, just because of parts avaiable.
Love the open look, I presume you'er following my 36' project and seeing that I'm making it a open sport style.
More prop data
|July 15 2012, 11:59 AM |
Paul and all,
I used the GPS with the new 13.25 x 15 prop I bought for the 360 CM with 260 HP and at WOT she ran 30 mph at 4700 rpm.
Then I took the 15 x 16 that came with the 73 Lancer I bought, put it on and at WOT she ran 30 mph at 4,100.
If you remember the boat came with a 15 x 17 and the motor could not get past 3,800.
When I had the 13.25 x 15 on her and with six full size adults, she ran smooth and strong.
I'm wandering how she will run with six adults and the 15 x 16?
Calculations...........originally specified prop is much more efficient
|July 16 2012, 3:37 PM |
Well that' some interesting info Glenn, I just looked at the 13.25x15 and the 15x16 and the latter is obviously the more efficient of the two. On paper the smaller diameter prop should be giving you 3-mph more speed but it is apparently reaching a point where it is revving but not getting enough bite, and that is where the bigger diameter comes into play. I suspect sic people aboard will cause the 15x16 to drop some rpm, but CC designed these boats to take on a load and still perform. Will be fun finding out.
The 15x16 at 4100 rpm and the 15x17 at 3800 really help tune your best alternative. The stock prop was a (3-blade) 15x16 cupped, which is going to be just a bit over the 15x16, and 4100 seems to me to be a pretty good max rpm for that boat. People who go to the 4-blade props, by the way, are looking for good mid-range performance and not necessarily top speed, because it is rare if ever that a 4-blade will deliver better top end than a 3 blade. At some point it would be fun to try a 4-blade in the 14x15 range, but endeavors like that can be expensive.
When I get a chance I will plug this data onto our calculation base here
|June 15 2012, 3:04 PM |
We now have some very good data to further evaluate this hull and inboard configuration.
What a Sweet Craft by Chris
|June 15 2012, 9:13 PM |
Paul and all,
We had four guest in for the Reds and Indians games this past week (Go Reds)and we took them for a ride in the Lancer. It was mid day Wednesday and she performed great, not a lot of traffic.
Sunny and we sweep them.
I was running at 3400 rpm's and she just purred, with little strain. Sweet.
With six full size adults, I est. 1000#, although she used some gas.
Data to come, stay toned.
Rename to L'il Babe
|July 15 2012, 11:43 AM |
Paul and all,
We had a rename ceremony for our 23' Lancer. New name is L'il Babe, our 36' is I Got You Babe, so we think is fitting.
Toasting to the North, South, East and West Gods of the Sea.
Throwing a token in the water with the old name Sea Mist
Uncovering the new name.
Checking out the new name.
I would have backed her in, but when I start it up, I get the boat on the other side of the dock wet, oops.
The swim platform and ladder sure make it easy to get on and off when it's on the trailer.
|This message has been edited by FEfinaticP on Jul 20, 2012 3:07 PM|
|July 15 2012, 1:43 PM |
Way to go. Your Ceremony way better than Mine, I think some beer was spilled on the deck on accident. I have a name for her but not on the boat. I do Vinyl lettering myself and I can never get time to do it. HA.
Beautiful job Glenn
|July 16 2012, 10:51 AM |
The funny thing about your boat, is the fact that I saw it for sale and tried to buy it, but the web site that was hosting the for sale photo was some sort of a deep sea fishing site and they had so many frigging rules about how many postings you had to do before you could do this and that, i finally gave up. I got a politically correct note from their web master and felt nauseaus, thought oh well guess i better look elsewhere. The guy would not give me the phone number or contact info for one of his people who was trying to sell a boat, what a pri*k. You did a better job finding the seller, for sure.
As a matter of fact, the ad is still there and here is the photo, just picked off the site now
In any case Glenn, you got a good one and did an even better job at it than I would have. Congratulations, you turned this one into something you could take guests to after a ballgame and go for a ride in, and that is a far cry from where it was sitting a few years ago. WELL DONE, this is what classic fiberglass boat restoration (and ownership) is all about. Regarding the change of name, I think the ceremony was totally appropriate and hopefully there was someone off camera doing the Chris Craft version of the Roamer Dance, lol.
The unveiling is a hoot too, ha, first time I've ever seen or heard about doing that but very cool.
Thanks for sharing all of this good stuff with us,